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Posted: 4/8/2002 8:17:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:30:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 2:25:00 PM EDT
I have toyed with the same idea for some time and I came up with the .357 Sig. Why, you ask? I can get a .40 barrel for anywhere from $89 on up, allowing me to shoot reloads from the .40 AND still have the .357 Sig. Does that make sense? I mean, the .40 is almost a 10MM and you have the flexability/cost effectiveness of both calibers in one gun. My 2 cents, still worthless.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 3:12:15 PM EDT
Man...I don`t envy your dillema......Being a serious 10mm fan...I have thought this one out a lot.....I would go with 357sig.....I believe it is a modern high efficiency round.....I love 10`s....but in a real lif/death scenario.....I would go with 357 sig...IN a sig......just my own feelings...for what it`s worth.....
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 3:13:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 3:35:53 PM EDT by Wadman]
Actually, the price of .357 Sig ammo has come down considerably. Reloading components are even available (Speer makes a .357 Sig specific projectile).

I realize that recoil and muzzle rise are highly subjective things. When comparing full power .357 Sig as fired from a G31 to full power 10mm Auto as fired from a Colt Delta, the 10mm was much more stout. Another thing to consider are hi-cap mags. G22 mags function fine in a G31 and can still be found for reasonable prices. I'm not sure how much hi-cap G20 mags sell for.

Being able to swap in a 40 S&W barrel is also a nice feature. I got an Accumatch barrel from Glockmeister and it fits and functions without problems.


==========

I just realized that if you're considering the smaller framed Glocks, mag capacity becomes irrelevent.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 3:16:56 PM EDT
Anothergene......normally....I agree with you for the most part.....but PLEASE don`t make statements that are off base.....I/E....a 40 is almost a 10?????.....that`s the same as saying a 38 special is almost a 357 mag......really..............
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 3:42:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 3:47:35 PM EDT by Wadman]
B&G,

Aren't you being a little hard on Anothergene? The original Norma loadings for 10mm were definitely screamers. But since then, commercial ammo (except for CorBon) is loaded so anemically that many 40 S&W loads are pretty damn close if not the same. What are the specs for the FBI's 10mm Lite? It seems the only way to really separate the two is by handloading.


I recall an ad by Norma listing one load. It had a 200 grain bullet at 1200 fps from the muzzle. Even if that proved overly optimistic (1150 fps?), that's still a potent load. But I sure wouldn't want to put a steady diet of it through any pistol I owned.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 4:02:49 PM EDT
The only reason that the .40 S&W exist is because the pantywaists at FBI couldn't qualify with full power 10mm loads. Thus the FBI had to go with a downloaded 10mm load. Then the genius' at S&W got the idea why not duplicate the ballistics of the downloaded 10mm in a shorter cartridge that we can adapt a 9mm frame - voila the 40 S&W is born. It is still a poor bastard stepchild when compared to the true potential of the 10mm as originally designed. The original loading of the 10mm rivaled the .41 Magnum in an autoloader friendly cartridge. It was and still is a superb cartridge that deserves more respect - much like my favorite revolver cartridge the .41 Magnum.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 4:20:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 4:22:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 4:24:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:58:27 PM EDT
Hey Waverunner. I've fired the Glock 20 10mm a couple times and although I like the power (the guy was firing full power 10mm) the gun was a little wide for my hands. The same goes for the Glock 21, which I've tried too. If you've fired a Glock 21 before, the Glock 20 is physically identical but noticeably more powerful. The 10mm is more powerful than a full power .357 Magnum, is on par with the .41 Magnum, and is quite impressive. The 10mm is an excellent cartridge but with so few quality platforms, I'm afraid it is dying.

I myself carry a 3rd Gen Glock 32 .357 Sig with Meps. I LOVE this Glock. It is very comfortable (I assume you carry an NYPD G19?) and packs a wicked punch. You KNOW you're not firing a 9mm when you pull that trigger. It is quite accurate and manageable for a small pistol firing a 525+ lb-ft round. Plus, I have a factory G23 barrel that swaps out in 5 seconds to allow me to fire .40 S&W. In my experience, the hotter .357 rounds kick a little harder than the hottest .40 S&W rounds, a testament to the .357 Sig's power.

The major selling point IMHO of the .357 Glock over the 10mm Glock is the availability and quality of ammo. More and more LE agencies are adopting various .357 Sig weapons each year so this can only help with ammo availability.

G20 pre-ban mags are more scarce than G22 mags, consequently they are also more expensive. I use FML pre-ban G23 mags in my G32 and I've had 100% reliability with all ammo fired, so I'd imaging G22 mags work similarly well in a G31. So, the mag issue adds more weight to the .357's edge, hence I'd vote for the Glock 31.

Too bad you don't live a little closer to Albany or I'd offer to let you try a few boxes of .357 in my Glock 32 to help you decide. I really think you'd like the .357 Sig.

Well, good luck with your decision and hope this helped some.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 7:45:23 PM EDT
BMANSAR15,

Not only do 15 rnd G22 mags work, they work better with .357 Sigs than 10 rnd G31 mags. Instead of using those stupid side ribs to reduce the capacity, Glock should've just used a higher floorplate.

Waverunner can use LEO mags so pre-ban prices aren't a factor.

It's a shame that the 10mm has such a small market share. It's a cartridge with a lot of potential. I got a 10mm AR upper and its longer barrel really gets the most from that cartridge.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 10:00:06 PM EDT
I'm not a big fan of the 10mm. At 5'10" and 150 pounds, I'm not giant so perhaps someone larger could shoot it better. IMHO any handgun cartridge is weak, and your best bet is to put several shots in the target as fast as possible. I think the 9mm, 357, 40 and 45 allow faster folluw up shots than the 10mm. Also, if you want something really hot, go with one of the many spicy 45 loads. 45 super approached 44 magnum power and hits with a larger diameter bullet.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 3:33:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wadman:
B&G,

Aren't you being a little hard on Anothergene? The original Norma loadings for 10mm were definitely screamers. But since then, commercial ammo (except for CorBon) is loaded so anemically that many 40 S&W loads are pretty damn close if not the same. What are the specs for the FBI's 10mm Lite? It seems the only way to really separate the two is by handloading.


I recall an ad by Norma listing one load. It had a 200 grain bullet at 1200 fps from the muzzle. Even if that proved overly optimistic (1150 fps?), that's still a potent load. But I sure wouldn't want to put a steady diet of it through any pistol I owned.

A little harsh...sorry.....but I stand by what I said........
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 3:35:45 AM EDT
True about the LEO mags, the only reason I mentioned pre-ban is in case Waverunner has trouble getting "letterhead permission" for non-duty weapon mags. If that is not an issue, then all the better Waverunner!

In any case, I still lean towards the Glock 31 as 10mm ammo is tough to find (good 10mm is even tougher).
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 6:22:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 6:50:40 AM EDT by Wadman]
FYI


Here are the chrono results of three factory 125 gr. loads as fired from a Glock 31.

Remington JHP
Avg. MV: 1376 fps
Energy: 525 ft/lbs.

Federal FMJ
Avg. MV: 1394 fps
Energy: 539 ft/lbs.

Speer Gold Dot
Avg. MV: 1378 fps
Energy: 527 ft/lbs.

This handload is from the Alliant site:

Hornady 115 gr. XTP, 10gr. Alliant Power Pistol
Avg. MV: 1560 fps
Energy: 620 ft/lbs.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 7:16:09 AM EDT
I have carried the G-29 Glock 10mm for a few years now, and I love it to death.
The perfect gun. Awesome power in a semi auto. Mine is very easy to shoot, utterly accurate, and easy to control.


(Sk8brdnick) I'm not a big fan of the 10mm. At 5'10" and 150 pounds, I'm not giant so perhaps someone larger could shoot it better.


I am a Grandma with little hands, this is NOT a problem.
All those guys that whine about "the awful scary recoil" are wimps.
Buy the 10, it runs circles around the .357 Sig.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:28:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackandGreen:
Anothergene......normally....I agree with you for the most part.....but PLEASE don`t make statements that are off base.....I/E....a 40 is almost a 10?????.....that`s the same as saying a 38 special is almost a 357 mag......really..............

Almost = not quite, open to definition. .308 is almost 30-06? Or almost pregnant? Last time I looked, the .40 hole looked like a 10MM. Just tryin' to conjure a way Wave can have his cake and eat it too, a coupla hundred FPS, not withstanding. Remember when .40 S&W meant short and weak? Not too many say that anymore.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 9:08:01 AM EDT
SO MANY CALIBERS.......so little time...
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 9:13:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackandGreen:
SO MANY CALIBERS.......so little time...

Even one of each, wouldn't suffice, huh?
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 1:39:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By anothergene:

Originally Posted By BlackandGreen:
SO MANY CALIBERS.......so little time...

Even one of each, wouldn't suffice, huh?

Actually, yes...I am a proponent of just that......about the only thing I DON`T have is a 40.......my buddies and i did some experimenting with 40`s when they were just becoming popular.....I actually CONVINCED a couple of them to buy 40`s......BUT to me...they are redundant.....o-k..I`m a lucky person to have found a delta elite at a VERY reasonable price...and like waverunner...I like to be different....(that`s why I collect mossberg 22`s)..maybe....anyway...I know the 40 is a decent round.....ALL of these can be loaded to be formidable stoppers.....even the whimpy nines.....so it comes down to which are your favorites.....after MUCH concideration.....IF I was in a position to carry for a living.....I would chose 357sig...IN a SIG...as i said......someday I would like to own one......I also want a glock10mm.....BOTH full and mini....AND a whole lot of other stuff.......end of story...
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 1:41:24 PM EDT
Waverunner........I hope you`re laughimg when you buy that next pistol!!!!!.....
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 2:30:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 2:37:10 PM EDT
Waverunner, where else can you get so much help, spending YOUR money? But anyway, keep us up to date as to what you choose and why, ok? I still miss my .45WinMag in the LAR grizzly. "the 10MM is not almost a .45WinMag"...here we go again.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 2:40:23 PM EDT
Troublecauser...........
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 4:35:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 4:39:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 6:33:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Waverunner:
I guess the only way to solve this problem would be to buy BOTH calibers!


I guess that takes care of it, but which one first?
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 8:11:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 10:48:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 2:10:12 PM EDT
Good choice on the .357, although 10mm Glocks are cool too. I just wish factory ammo was more readily found.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 2:41:11 PM EDT
With either caliber, I don't think you're losing out one way or another. Down the road get the 10mm too.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 3:10:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Waverunner:
looks like 357Sig, the ability to switch to 40 S&W as well kind of draws me

There are reasons why not getting the .40 and getting the .357Sig barrel later...supposedly the Glock .40 chamber is oversized and unsupported, whereas the .357Sig is tighter, chamber wise. And the aftermarket barrel you choose for the .40 can be had supported and rifled, with a tighter chamber (depending on make and cost) allowing reloads to be used, in lead even, if that is a factor. (I'm sure the troops will tell me if I'm offbase here)
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