Posted: 10/3/2011 10:09:46 AM EDT
|
Problem #1: The majority of my shots pull to the left and up consistently. My last range trip, I made nice 3"-4" groupings consistently to the left and up immediately of the bulls eye at distances from 3 to 10 yards. I know that it's not that tight of a group but at the moment, I'm happy with my groupings, I would just like my groupings to move over to the bulls eye.
Problem #2: I cannot shoot to save my life at 15+ yards. At 15 yards, I consider myself lucky if I hit the black portion of the target 1/5 times. At 25 yards, I consider myself lucky if I hit paper. I know the problem is me because I exhibit this problem with all three of my handguns. For those who are wondering, I have a USP9, XD9sc, PPS9. I've put roughly 500rds, 750rds, 100rds, respectively. Any help is much appreciated. |
| I think you just need more practice. Shooting a handgun well isn't easy when you're just getting started. First, I'd suggest picking one of the three pistols and concentrating on that particular platform for awhile. Second, dry-fire the shit out of it until you can do so without interupting the sight picture. It's all about sight alignment and trigger control. You don't need to blow through thousands of rounds of ammo to learn to control the trigger. Dry-fire, dry-fire, dry-fire. Then go to the range and see how you do. Don't be afraid to dry-fire some at the range too just to verify you're still pulling the trigger correctly. |
|
Your trigger control is lacking. Dry fire your gun, your sights shouldn't move one bit when the hammer falls/striker is released. Shoot live ammo as if you were dry firing. Don't jerk the trigger, don't anticipate the shot. Train with an unknown mix of dummy and live rounds. And follow through, which means that you re-align the sights with the target after the shot.
Also don't waste any more of your time "training" at less than 25 yards. If you can't hit paper at that moderate distance your basics are severely lacking. Once you've learned how to pull the trigger all the way through without throwing your sights off target you can start practicing increasingly rapid fire at increasingly shorter distances. |
| Watertower is right on, dry fire is critical to good performance. Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7YdjrvB718 there is some good information there its a really good technique because it forces you to focus on your basics and not even worry about the target. Another way to do the same thing is using a .22 handgun at short range from a rest. Sounds silly, but doing that to the point you have one ragged hole, then backing up and doing it again forces you to work on the fundamentals, while not being quite as dull as dry fire. |
|
That chart helps alot.
I do spend a fair amount dry firing. Maybe I should get someone who is more knowledgeable to spot me when I dry fire and live fire? They might see something that I am missing. I'll try focusing on just my USP for the next several months. Also don't waste any more of your time "training" at less than 25 yards. If you can't hit paper at that moderate distance your basics are severely lacking. Once you've learned how to pull the trigger all the way through without throwing your sights off target you can start practicing increasingly rapid fire at increasingly shorter distances.
I'm not that horrible that I'm off paper at less than 25yards. Maybe I made it sound worse than it is? At 3 yards, it's a ragged 2inch hole about 1-2 inches up and to the left of the bulls eye. At 7-10 yards, I'm getting all my shots in the 8" black circles, just all on the left side of the circle. At 15, they're still 5-6" groupings, just the majority of the grouping is right on the left edge of the 8" black circle. It's the 25yards where I begin to really suck. |
|
buy a revolver and load 1 loaded round and 5 empties. spin like your playing russian roullette, after every "click" open and respin. it is the only way to break bad habbits without using 100's of rounds.
this way 50 rounds will last an hour, you will learne to shot and not break the bank. 686, k-38, colt trooper or even a gp100 if you have to. look around and you'll find a k-38 for under $300 and you will have one of the most accurate handguns ever. older the better. I got mine when i was 17, now 47 and still going strong 10k or more rounds. |
|
Quoted:
That chart helps alot. I do spend a fair amount dry firing. Maybe I should get someone who is more knowledgeable to spot me when I dry fire and live fire? They might see something that I am missing. I'll try focusing on just my USP for the next several months. When you do dry-fire practice are you doing several things at the same time, i.e. moving, drawing and then pulling the trigger? If so, perhaps you should slow down for a week or so and focus just on trigger control. I don't think you need anybody else to spot for you, just go slow and learn the trigger. I don't have nearly the time I used to, but back in the day I would use the TV as a target because the light from it made lining up the sights (and seeing any misalignment) so much easier. Any light/bright colored background will work, just go slow for a few days until you really get the feel for moving the trigger through the break without disturbing the sights. Once you can do it consistently, start speeding things up, then add a draw stroke, then drawing from concealment, then moving and drawing, etc. I still go back to this type of practice if I haven't been shooting in awhile. While a .22 or a revolver can be beneficial as mentioned above, I don't htink adding another platform to what you currently have is going to help much, it's just one more trigger to learn. Dry-fire every day for a couple of weeks as I described, you'll see some improvement. If you've got any questions, send me an IM. |
|
Do you squeeze the trigger or mash it when the sights line up? A smooth pull is one of the keys to shooting small groups.
I shoot a lot of bullseye, one handed at 25 to 50 yards. When I shoot for groups I repeat this mantra: Perfect sights. (Sight alignment is more critical than anything else.) Perfect placement (Aligning the sights on the target is important, of course, but perfection here is difficult to impossible since we are human. Most importantly, never loose that perfect sight algnment. A little misalignment with the target is far better than a misalignment of the sights.) Perfect squeeze (I squeeze the trigger when the sights are lined up with the target. The key is to accept the fact that the sights are going to wander and not snatch the trigger when the sights look good. Snatching the trigger almost garantees that the shot will most likely go somewhere out of the group.) It should take about 3-5 seconds to get a slow fire shot off. If it takes longer than about 7 seconds lower the gun, rest, and try again. In reading what you've written, I would assume you are snatching the trigger with too little trigger finger on the trigger causing the pistol to be pushed left by the snatched trigger. (Assuming you are right handed.) My remedy would be to put the finger further on the trigger and really concentrate on squeezing the trigger. |
|
get a 22 rimfire pistol like a ruger standard auto- with good sights trigger and limited recoil puls very inexpensive ammo you will improve quickly- move to the combat centerfire handguns only after you can get a 3-4 inch centered group at 25 yards with the 22. You need lots of help with trigger control. ball and dummy drills- getting a friend to load the pistol without you watching and then you fire not knowing if it is loaded or empty- will display your mistakes for correction. Get a knowledgeable shooter to coach you.
While it may be somewhat boring compared tot he combat action style of shooting so prevalent today, Going to some bullseye pistol matches and learning and shooting them will develop basic skills MUCH better than combat style shooting initially |
|
You did say whether you're right or left handed but I will assume right. There's been some excellent suggestions already, such as watching the front sight as you dry fire. Also, watch how much finger you're using on the trigger.
Any issues you have at close range are being magnified at longer ranges (15 yards). When you're 3 yards (or less) from the target where are your rounds hitting? Dead on or sightly to the left? If you have a shooting buddy have them try it. A friend was having trouble connecting with some of the steel targets last weekend and was getting frustrated. We moved up close on paper so that he could see exactly where his rounds were hitting verses his sight picture. It helped him improve so maybe it's worth a try. He was using a XDsc which has a very short sight picture. |
|
go to the range with an experienced shooter / mentor. have him shoot your guns and have him (or her, more fun) watch you shoot.
Like Yogi says, "You can learn a lot from observation." do not waste any more ammo, go with someone knowledgeable. Oh yeah, dry fire like crazy. like mucho. Pistols take some time to learn to shoot, either bullseye or action type shooting. get the basics first and good luck! billy boy |
|
Quoted:
A big problem of mine was that I was focusing too much on the sights and not on the target. Sights are more important than the target if you are trying to shoot groups. The target can be fuzzy but the front sight must be clear so you can achieve perfect sight alignment. To put this in perspective for you there is a 100x mgnification of sight alignment errors at 25 yards using a pistol w/ a 9" sight radius. (A 0.001" error in sight alignment = a 0.101" error on the target.) i.e. If you line up on the same fuzzy dot of the target the same same way each time with perfect sight alignment you will print a group that maximizes what the gun is capable of. If you have a clear target but fuzzy sights and you have random error in lining up the sights of just +/- 0.010" (The thickness of three sheets of paper) you will add 2.0" to the goup size before you take into account the variation the gun brings to the group. |
|
Agree with the poster about the .22lr. You should get a .22 and really work to master that first. Very affordable to practice. Proper stance and grip, proper sight alignment, proper breathing and proper trigger sqeeze. This can best be accomplished with a .22 with a nice crisp trigger. 4073 |
|
Quoted:
Agree with the poster about the .22lr. You should get a .22 and really work to master that first. Very affordable to practice. Proper stance and grip, proper sight alignment, proper breathing and proper trigger sqeeze. This can best be accomplished with a .22 with a nice crisp trigger. 4073 good advice. You may wish to try shooting from a rest as well. Compare your bench targets with your offhand stuff and see if you're doing something is awry. good luck billy boy |
|
Quoted:
A big problem of mine was that I was focusing too much on the sights and not on the target.  Not sure if this post was a joke. No offense intended d5. I'm sure it must be because one of the most critical aspects of accurate iron sight shooting is focusing hard on the front sight, (the other is trigger control)...When I was struggling with my accuracy a bud proved this to me. he covered my non-dominant eye and put a shooting magnifier over my dominant eye...I literally could not make out the blank piece of paper he'd hung at 15 yds..it was just a blur of white...I could however see the front sight razor sharp. After 5 shots he let me uncover my eyes and brought the target in so I could admire the roughly 1" group I'd shot. (at that time it was nothing less than a miracle group for me)
The OP sounds like he has a combo of problems. A big one is a bad flinch, BAD..secondly, judging from the not so tight groups he recounts, is a problem with either trigger control or not watching the sights (or both) ...dry fire done properly will help greatly...A general rule of thumb that I was given was 20 dry practice shots for every 1 live fire shot when you're trying to fix a problem. Good luck OP...everyone struggles with a flinch sooner or later. |
| How is your sight picture? Remember your front sight should be just touching the bottom of the bullseye. It should look like an orange on a stick. The front sight should not cover the bullseye. I like my grip pressure to be 40% strong hand and 60% support hand. If I squeeze too hard with my strong hand, I pull the shots to the left. |