Posted: 8/21/2008 12:51:37 PM EDT
Thats for coming to the Kel-Tec forum just to tell us how much you hate Kel-Tecs you don't own and nothing else.  My 4 Kel-Tecs have been 100% reliable. P3AT,PF-9,Sub2000 G17 version and PLR-16. Once again thanks for a useless post.  ETA: Ammo,limp wristing and break-in period is all a factor with a small gun that is made to be carried alot and shot alittle. Keep that in mind. |
No limp wristing here, I'm in law enforcement and know how to shoot. Also, I shot my Glock using the same cheap ammo all day with no problems. As for the break-in period argument, you can take a Glock out of the box and shoot it until your hands hurt, with no malfunctions. Kel-Tec maybe needs to worry more about quality manufacturing. This post was not meant to bash owners of these guns but offered another opinion for people looking at this forum deciding whether to buy one. It's no more useless than your forum telling me that Kel-Tec is great when I know otherwise. And how many smart gun buyers don't test guns when they can before buying? I simply stated my experience, and stated that because I'm in a profession where I trust my life to my equipment, I will never carry Kel-Tec. You can come after me if you want, but I'll rest assured knowing I'll only have to dodge one or two rounds.BTW, the owner of that gun said he was going to contact Kel-Tec, but I told him if it were me I would trade it in for a gun that worked. |
I'm a big Glock fanboy too. I own several Glock pistols and trust my life to them. I also occasionally carry a KelTec P3AT (.380) when I need a really slim pocket gun, and where a Glock 26/27 just won't do due to bulkiness. My KT runs like a top and I trust my life to it just as I do my Glocks. Us civillians value our lives and property just as much as you cops  I have a question for you though. In this thread, you say that you were shooting your Glock using the same cheap ammo all day with no problems. Presumably, you were referring to 9mm ammo. But in another thread titled "Only gun I'd trust my life to" which you wrote just a few hours ago, you stated that you carry a Glock 22 & 27 (.40) and "wouldn't carry anything else". So are we to understand that you were practicing "all day" with a different Glock, one that you would never even carry? |
I knew some smart guy would question that. I meant the same cheap Winchester BRAND target ammo from Wally-world, not the exact same ammo. Yes, the Glocks I carry are both .40. So no, I was not practicing all day with some other gun. I didn't say civilians don't need a good carry gun, but we do encounter more frequent dangerous situations and deal with dangerous people a lot more than the average citizen. Our equipment has to work no matter what, no matter how new the gun is. As for me taking these concerns up with Kel-Tec, there's no need-I already have my go-to company. Enjoy less capacity, less reliability, and less stopping power, I'll stick with my G-lock, thank you very much. |
in law enforcement.
Newsflash! You're a mere civilian too. No matter how hard and tough you think you are, you're not military. So stick with your G-Lock homie, and we'll spend our money on what the hell we want, not what some mall ninja claims is the only reliable pistol out there. PS: Your mother says your package isn't as bulky as you think it is. |
|
You know there are many type of guns from many manufacturers costing 10 times more than any Kel-Tec that require break-in time. My XD shot right out of the box all day with no jams, so did my 1911s,and my Rugers and all of my Kel-Tecs...etc.I can't remember how many times I've read of $150 Hi-Point handguns shooting 100% reliable out of the box and still going after thousands of rounds. BTW,being in law enforcment really does not mean your a good shot. Practicing and training does though.Also because your a good shot does not mean you are not limp wristing the Kel-Tec. My PF-9 bucks like crazy because of the weight but I knew about it before hand and was able to hold tight but keep me groups small enough for what the PF-9 was designed for. My post is also not usless as I did'nt start this thread to just complain about someone elses gun that I don't intend to ever buy and have no idea if its the shooter or the gun...you did. You say Kel-Tecs are junk so I had to state my experience with them. The only time my Kel-Tecs will only shoot once or twice is if I loaded them up with 1 or 2 rounds. |
Why talk about guns that require a break in and then list a bunch that don't? Sad but true, you're right, being in LE alone does not = good shot. It should, for obvious reasons (our life may depend on that skill, for one), but it doesn't. In my case what I meant was I have been formally trained how to shoot AND stay proficient in it because I practice. I have shot many different types of guns and I assure you I was not limp wristing. I find it hard to believe that the other four guys that shot the same gun, that also spend a good deal of time at the range and own multiple firearms, were also limp wristing. I mean, come on, you're making an excuse for a piece of equipment that doesn't work right. It's not the shooter(s), it's the "gun". It works both ways, you guys talk about how great Kel-Tecs are all day so I should have an equal right to tell of my bad experience. Think about it. |
THanks for the complement on being a smart guy. I get that alot. I think the problem you have is that you're comparing to completly different sized guns, for different applications, that use different calibers. And while you MAY encounter more dangerous situations on a daily basis, our equipment has to function well "no matter what" too. If I want greater size, weight, capacity, caliber, etc... I go to my Glock 21. As you stated, stick to your Glocks. They're excellent guns. KT weren't made for people like you. |
I've made comments because your stating your Glock does not need a break-in period. I'm stating guns that I own that did not need break-in periods. I also stated there are guns costing 10x more that do need break-in periods, so if they jam up does it mean their junk or is it because someone was breaking in a firearm with HP instead of ball, or does the gun just not like that certain ammo? If someone owns a gun like mine but they have jamming issues are they junk? My 1911s have been 100% like my Mil-Spec, some have jam issues...are they all considered junk then because one gun jammed? Then it comes down to either operator error,magazine,ammo or the gun itself. Has anyone that shot the Kel-Tec shot a gun that small AND light in 9mm? People limp wrist with P3ATs as well and get jams and thats only a .380. I would suggest the owner of the Kel-Tec to try another type of ammo since I have read WWB will jam some guns...not just Kel-Tecs...and run fine with other ammo. Another factor is that if the gun in question is a PF-9 it may be a new/older model that has the older barrel that had a different feedramp. BTW you can say all the bad things you want about a gun, we still live in a free country for now. It would of been more constructive to post the problems the original owner was having and mabey see if anyone has any insight on what could be wrong. Instead you just started a thread to say that all Kel-Tecs were junk because one gun jammed up. |
Touché. |
|
I know what he said abot the 9 mm keltec- It might have had some problems. My P32 has been 100% reliable and I've run about 600 rounds through it. I can even shoot hit the chest area at 25 yards with it. No accuracy problems at all. But to say you would never trust your life to a firearm because you saw one fail, All you have to do is read each forum dedicated to a certain gun and see that every gun, including glock, has problems. Glock indeed is a geat weapon and I own several. But, I saw one fail while shooting in IDPA. By his way of thinking, I should have gotten rid of my glocks and just kept my keltec and my XD's- I've never seen or had one of those fail. Funny, when you think of it from a different point of view - It's hard to be narrow minded then. |
|
I carry a Keltec P11 daily and I would and do trust my life to it. I wouldn't shoot bullseye with it, but it is combat accurate out to at LEAST 15 yards (furthest I practice with it.) It is NOT at all unmanageable. Respectfully, if you cannot hit anything at 3 yards with one and there is nothing wrong with the gun, you need a LOT more trigger time. Folks, the simple truth is, you HAVE to spend time with any pistol you plan to carry for defensive use, not only to verify operation, but also to become proficient with said weapon. Any piston can and will fail and if you need to use it, shooting all over the place won't help you much unless you get lucky. Don't depend on luck. |
|
I figure that many reports of malfunctions with Kel-tecs comes from people who don't realize that they need to release the trigger all the way before you pull it again. If you pull it again after only one release click (like you should with a short resetting Glock) it isn't going to fire. Unless I missed it, our highly trained professional did bother to mention what malfunctions he had. That being the case I'll go ahead and chock it up to shooter error. |
|
Just because you were "trained" by a police department doesn't make you an expert, or even well trained, some of the worst and unsafe shooters I have ever seen were young cops not long out of the academy. How many guns besides you G-Locks do you have experience with? You base your writing this on experience with ONE bad gun, do you think Glock hasn't made a reject before? Come on man think before you go stomping on things you have very little knowledge about. I have 3 KTs and yes they have all had their quirks when new, but after a little work or break in they all run great. Name me one other pistol that is more reliable the my P3AT, that gets carried in my back pocket every day with my fat ass sitting on it and will still go bang every time I pull the trigger. I stake my life on my P3AT every day, knowing that it is 100% reliable, until you have had one and shot it more than once you may want to keep your limited opinions to yourself. BTW, I own five Glocks and love them all, but for my needs the KT serves me very well. Sorry for the small rant but you really shouldn't bash things until you have a chance to test them thoroughly. |
agree 100%. I own a p3at and carry it 24/7 for 6-7 months now and runs 100%. I also have a sub2k in 40 w/glock mags and I have abused this gun like you would not beleive and it has been 100% for a few years now. I keep thinking surely it has to have failed sometime. But if it did I can't recall it. I used to have a p32 and that one I didnt like much. Others could shoot it fine but for me I'd have it hang up every couple of mags. My p-11 9mm was a good little gun. Always went bang and I carried it with one 10rd mag in it and a 15rd mag in my other opocket. But I sold this one when I wanted ti get me a p3at. Kinda regret it. I should have coughed up the 260 and kept both. |
In the words of Sgt Hulka "lighten up Francis" In the words of Paddymurphy, "Ease off the thrusters ramjet" You might encounter more frequent dangerous people than most "civillians". But there are a lot of "civillians" that deal with more douche bags than you as well. Cab drivers business owners etc. Your life is no more valuable than theirs. Point of fact your life is worth less than a "civillians". Also, no matter how new? Ummm, your agency does require you qualify before you carry right? That means hopefully it has at least a couple dozen rounds down the pipe before you start carrying it. You are in Law Enforcement great. That does not mean you know how to shoot or all there is to know about guns. Trust me I know a lot of cops. They all think they can shoot and are Wyatt freaking Earp. They aren't. Most department qualifications are not that demanding. Yours could be an exception but compare some IDPA courses of fire to your qual course then get back to me. As far as how great I am a cop applies to limp wristing---If your shooting is limited to one platform (Glock 9/40 frame). You may in fact run into issues when shooting an unfamiliar platform. Those issues could include limp wristing. It is nothing to be ashamed of it happens. I own multiple Glocks and have been carrying one as my duty gun for over a decade. I love them. I have had a kel-tec p32 for 5 years. I love it. It has been reliable 100% of the time excluding operator error. Finally comparing a deep concealment gun to a reduced sized duty gun is like comparing the virtues of accuracy of a 5 shot 38 snub to that of a 6" python. Just my humble opinion. |