Posted: 12/26/2009 1:50:35 PM EDT
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I have reported my PM9 locks back mid magazine with 3 different mags with Ranger 147gr SXT's. I sent the gun back to Kahr, they test fired it with no problems and said it was probably the ammo I was using. So I buy a bunch of Gold Dot 124gr ammo, went to the range today and had the same problem. It happened with a two hand hold and also one hand hold, weak hand. I wonder, can a weak grip be causing the slide to lock open? I fired 150 rounds and had 4 malfunctions. I don't have much faith in Kahr to do anything different if I sent it back a second time. So I am looking at what I am doing. I might assume Kahr changed the slide stop spring but I don't know. Any input?? I am slowly losing confidence in this gun. I welocme any help.
Dr. |
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I have reported my PM9 locks back mid magazine with 3 different mags with Ranger 147gr SXT's. I sent the gun back to Kahr, they test fired it with no problems and said it was probably the ammo I was using. So I buy a bunch of Gold Dot 124gr ammo, went to the range today and had the same problem. It happened with a two hand hold and also one hand hold, weak hand. I wonder, can a weak grip be causing the slide to lock open? I fired 150 rounds and had 4 malfunctions. I don't have much faith in Kahr to do anything different if I sent it back a second time. So I am looking at what I am doing. I might assume Kahr changed the slide stop spring but I don't know. Any input?? I am slowly losing confidence in this gun. I welocme any help. Dr. Try bringing a friend to the range and see if they get the same results. |
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How many rounds do you have through it? It does take a fair amount of rounds to get it broke in, and I believe that the manual suggested at least 200 rounds. I had a similar problem with mine when I first got it, but after putting quite a few rounds (have no idea how many), I no longer have a problem. If its a new-ish gun, just keep putting rounds down the pipe. The Kahrs seem to take a little while to wear in. Also, just FYI, I am running the Rangers out of mine. Is there any chance that with the way that you are holding it, that you are bumping the slide release lever when you shoot? Also, if you think that it is a problem with a weak hold, or "limp wristing" it, let someone else shoot a few mags through it, and see if it happens to them as well. |
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Sorry I forgot to mention the gun has about 300 rds through it. I did not have the problem with the Ranger 147gr. during the break in period. So does anyone know for a fact that a limp wrist can cuse the slide to lock back?
I think on some shots I could have been doing that especially shooting weak hand, one handed. Dr. |
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Quoted: Yes. Limp wristing can cause problems with SA handguns.
Sorry I forgot to mention the gun has about 300 rds through it. I did not have the problem with the Ranger 147gr. during the break in period. So does anyone know for a fact that a limp wrist can cuse the slide to lock back? I think on some shots I could have been doing that especially shooting weak hand, one handed. Dr. |
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Yes. Limp wristing can cause problems with SA handguns.Sorry I forgot to mention the gun has about 300 rds through it. I did not have the problem with the Ranger 147gr. during the break in period. So does anyone know for a fact that a limp wrist can cuse the slide to lock back? I think on some shots I could have been doing that especially shooting weak hand, one handed. Dr. Yes, I realize they can cause problems but I have never heard of the slide locking back before being empty. Someone at the range mentioned this. Can it cause this particular problem? Thanks, Dr. |
| Its not you, its the gun. This is a common problem with the PM9. I had the same problem with my PM9 and Speer Gold Dot 124gr +p. Frustrating as hell !!!!! It happened after I got the the pistol back from Kahr service. I had an early production serial # and after some cycling issues, they replaced the barrel, slide and recoil spring. Prior to this I had put about 1500rds through it and it was 95% reliable. When I got it back, I went to the range and put 300 rds of WWB 115gr and ran fine. Next I ran 100 rds of Speer +p and that's when a new failure happened. The slide was locking back intermittently every other mag. I tried different mags and different shooters and all had the same rate of failure. I personally don't think the PM9 can consistently handle +p, even though its rated for it. I think the slide and recoil spring are to light. I called Kahr and they said don't feed it a constant diet of +p and sent me a new slide release lever and spring. That's bullshit!!! Either it is rated for +P or its not!! Problem is, most "Short Barreled" ammo is +p rated. That's why I was running the hot stuff in the first place. Guaranteed controlled expansion from a short barrel(under 3.5"). Bottom line, couldn't trust it and got rid of it. It killed me to give it up, but micro 9mm autos are nothing but trouble. Went back to a Kahr P9 and it runs flawlessly on anything I feed it including Speer Gold Dot +P. Kahr makes some great compact autos, the PM series is not one of them. The PM9 is a little thing thing of beauty, but NOT to be trusted with your life. |
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Its not you, its the gun. This is a common problem with the PM9. I had the same problem with my PM9 and Speer Gold Dot 124gr +p. Frustrating as hell !!!!! It happened after I got the the pistol back from Kahr service. I had an early production serial # and after some cycling issues, they replaced the barrel, slide and recoil spring. Prior to this I had put about 1500rds through it and it was 95% reliable. When I got it back, I went to the range and put 300 rds of WWB 115gr and ran fine. Next I ran 100 rds of Speer +p and that's when a new failure happened. The slide was locking back intermittently every other mag. I tried different mags and different shooters and all had the same rate of failure. I personally don't think the PM9 can consistently handle +p, even though its rated for it. I think the slide and recoil spring are to light. I called Kahr and they said don't feed it a constant diet of +p and sent me a new slide release lever and spring. That's bullshit!!! Either it is rated for +P or its not!! Problem is, most "Short Barreled" ammo is +p rated. That's why I was running the hot stuff in the first place. Guaranteed controlled expansion from a short barrel(under 3.5"). Bottom line, couldn't trust it and got rid of it. It killed me to give it up, but micro 9mm autos are nothing but trouble. Went back to a Kahr P9 and it runs flawlessly on anything I feed it including Speer Gold Dot +P. Kahr makes some great compact autos, the PM series is not one of them. The PM9 is a little thing thing of beauty, but NOT to be trusted with your life. I hate to say it but I am feeling the same thing. What is your opinion of the MK9. I would like a pocket pistol and would prefer not to have to go to revolvers. Not that I have anything against them, its just another reduction of capacity. To add, I wasn't even using +P ammo, Gold Dot 124gr. and Ranger 147gr. |
| The heavier bullet weight(147gr) or +p loads create more chamber pressure and that's whats causing the failure. Personally, I think the recoil spring is not heavy enough to cycle the action properly w/ hot or heavy 9mm. The slide "whips" back from the excessive chamber pressure and the slide release flips up locking the slide open. As for the MK series, I haven't heard or seen any failures like the PM series. Who knows, maybe the overall weight of the gun has something to do with it. |
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The heavier bullet weight(147gr) or +p loads create more chamber pressure and that's whats causing the failure. Personally, I think the recoil spring is not heavy enough to cycle the action properly w/ hot or heavy 9mm. The slide "whips" back from the excessive chamber pressure and the slide release flips up locking the slide open. As for the MK series, I haven't heard or seen any failures like the PM series. Who knows, maybe the overall weight of the gun has something to do with it. FWIW, the same problem occured when switching the Gold Dot 124gr. non-+p ammo. Dr. |
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The heavier bullet weight(147gr) or +p loads create more chamber pressure and that's whats causing the failure. Personally, I think the recoil spring is not heavy enough to cycle the action properly w/ hot or heavy 9mm. The slide "whips" back from the excessive chamber pressure and the slide release flips up locking the slide open. As for the MK series, I haven't heard or seen any failures like the PM series. Who knows, maybe the overall weight of the gun has something to do with it. FWIW, the same problem occured when switching the Gold Dot 124gr. non-+p ammo. Dr. IMO it's not the ammo +P or not the PM9 can handle those rounds. There is just something yet not right with your PM9. Not good when it happens to you the owner, but there has never been a busted slide or K-boom in a kahr with any +P ammo. they can take it. the slide release unless it is hit cannot flip up. the spring on the left side is always keeping that slide release downard. Only the magazine follower can engage the slide release, along with possable bullets hiitting the slide release, which should not happen. If the rounds are not in anyway hititng the inside of the slide lock lever, then my opinion is you have too have some bad magazines. I would also ask kahr to send you a new slide lock lever spring, that little curly thing on the left side. The one you have in there now could be totally out of whack and not holdiing the slide lock lever down as it should. One can easilly check that out for himself but taking off the slide and reinstalling the slide lock lever. There should be no free play with the lever in place to the lever to move upward NONE. If there is any freeplay, then one needs to tweek that little spinrg by taking a pair of needle nose plies and bending that spring downward just a tad, so the free play is gone. Or if u are afraind to do this, just ask kahr to send you a new one and then go to sears and buy a #6 torx screw driver to take tha tlittle screw out. You really cannot hurt anything either.. If by chance that lever has any freeplay, even though you might not think it is noticeable and you shoot and your thumb jsus touches that slide stop lever, your gonna get premature slide lockiing open. try shooting it also left handed to see if any of your issues still prevaill that will tell you that it is not your thumb possablty hitting the slide lock lever. Now I know some are going to say, Hell I bought this gun and I should not have to tweek or screw around with it, and I cannot agree with you more. You have the option of sendng it back, but for me you can try all of the above and still do the same thing if all else fails. Everyone here is trying to help any owner out with issues, with advice (some good, some not so good) so as to maybe not have to send the gun back. That to me is what gun forums are also for to, not to hammer the owner of a gun with issues or to even hammer the mfg-er of the gun either. Sometimes issue are shooter issues, most of the time it is the gun itself, both are solveable.. The Kahr PM9 outsells all their other guns combined, so no doubt we will read more about something not right my "my PM9". Not an excsue just a numbers fact. I can write here that my PM9 has 25,000+ rounds through it and no issues but that sure in hells doesn't help one who has issues so hoefully allwilltake allof this forums advice and comments with the spirit of which it was made. This to me is probably one of my top two kahr forums, mainly becuase most all are sensible posters... Happy new year.. |
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Keeping the thumbs off of the slide stop? Just thought I'd ask. Yes, shot it in all positions. locking thumb over thumb, one handed, two handed and left handed. Kahr is swapping all my magazines for me. I will try that before sending it back a second time. Meanwhile, I am studying up on S+W j-frames for pocket carry. Its going to take alot to convince me that this particular PM9 will become reliable. There lots of people that have no trouble with the PM9. There is also a large amount who do have trouble. It bugs me when someone posts - " I have a 87 billlion rounds through my PM9, don't know what wrong with you bud"! ! As if since thier's work, there is no possibility of someone elses gun having a problem. Frankly, looking at the design of the feed lips of the magazines, I am surprised any Kahrs work. Just thought I'd mention it. Dr. |
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Keeping the thumbs off of the slide stop? Just thought I'd ask. Yes, shot it in all positions. locking thumb over thumb, one handed, two handed and left handed. Kahr is swapping all my magazines for me. I will try that before sending it back a second time. Meanwhile, I am studying up on S+W j-frames for pocket carry. Its going to take alot to convince me that this particular PM9 will become reliable. There lots of people that have no trouble with the PM9. There is also a large amount who do have trouble. It bugs me when someone posts - " I have a 87 billlion rounds through my PM9, don't know what wrong with you bud"! ! As if since thier's work, there is no possibility of someone elses gun having a problem. Frankly, looking at the design of the feed lips of the magazines, I am surprised any Kahrs work. Just thought I'd mention it. Dr. Doc. can u show me that psot where someone made that comment about 87 biillion rounds. Be fair about this now. We know u have problems and some, myself included are trying to help you. I for one have never belittled your issues and I probably more than any poster here do indeed have over 25,000 rounds out of my PM9 and have had no issues, but when I make that coment it is not intended nor was ever intended to rub it in. It was merely to state a fact and that IMO kahrs are good guns but things can happen. Personally I also see nothing worng with the feed lips on kahr magazines. They work, You might indeed have a couple of bad magazines. I doubt that but that is certainly one thing that ALL semi mfg-ers seem to replace FIRST if issues prevail.. I have not read any comments on your posting here that was negative towards your issues....One is always going to hear of issues of any gun mfg-er on these gun forums, that is what they are here for. Many issues can be fixed without sending them back, regretfully some hav eto go back kand in your case regretfully, it might hav eto go back again. We hope the magazines cures it but IJMO don't bet on it. No doubt if you feel in your mind that you can't trust this gun , then IMO, it is best to peddle it and move on to a gun that you feel good about. It's not the end of the world, there are other gun makers out there that make fine guns, I owned a Para carry 9 once, sent it back 3 times, I loved the gun, IT JUSTNEVER WAS RELIABLE. I peddled it. to this day, I still say it was one of the most accurate semi's I have ever owned and hed the fnest LDA trigger system in the world, but I had no trust in it after the 3rd time back (which it seemed to work OK_) so I sold it , took my loss and moved on... |
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Keeping the thumbs off of the slide stop? Just thought I'd ask. Yes, shot it in all positions. locking thumb over thumb, one handed, two handed and left handed. Kahr is swapping all my magazines for me. I will try that before sending it back a second time. Meanwhile, I am studying up on S+W j-frames for pocket carry. Its going to take alot to convince me that this particular PM9 will become reliable. There lots of people that have no trouble with the PM9. There is also a large amount who do have trouble. It bugs me when someone posts - " I have a 87 billlion rounds through my PM9, don't know what wrong with you bud"! ! As if since thier's work, there is no possibility of someone elses gun having a problem. Frankly, looking at the design of the feed lips of the magazines, I am surprised any Kahrs work. Just thought I'd mention it. Dr. Doc. can u show me that psot where someone made that comment about 87 biillion rounds. Be fair about this now. We know u have problems and some, myself included are trying to help you. I for one have never belittled your issues and I probably more than any poster here do indeed have over 25,000 rounds out of my PM9 and have had no issues, but when I make that coment it is not intended nor was ever intended to rub it in. It was merely to state a fact and that IMO kahrs are good guns but things can happen. Personally I also see nothing worng with the feed lips on kahr magazines. They work, You might indeed have a couple of bad magazines. I doubt that but that is certainly one thing that ALL semi mfg-ers seem to replace FIRST if issues prevail.. I have not read any comments on your posting here that was negative towards your issues....One is always going to hear of issues of any gun mfg-er on these gun forums, that is what they are here for. Many issues can be fixed without sending them back, regretfully some hav eto go back kand in your case regretfully, it might hav eto go back again. We hope the magazines cures it but IJMO don't bet on it. No doubt if you feel in your mind that you can't trust this gun , then IMO, it is best to peddle it and move on to a gun that you feel good about. It's not the end of the world, there are other gun makers out there that make fine guns, I owned a Para carry 9 once, sent it back 3 times, I loved the gun, IT JUSTNEVER WAS RELIABLE. I peddled it. to this day, I still say it was one of the most accurate semi's I have ever owned and hed the fnest LDA trigger system in the world, but I had no trust in it after the 3rd time back (which it seemed to work OK_) so I sold it , took my loss and moved on... Please don't take it personally, I was not refering to you. You have gone above and beyond to help. It just gets frustrating to have issues with a gun and run into issues with people including the Factory that seem less than able to comprehend your problem. Partly because I am not there in person to show anyone what I am taking about, especially in regards to the magazines. There are other forums I have posted this issue in also. Some of this is me letting off steam ! Sorry if it sounded personal. Dr. |
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Thanks for the advice, but I wanted a pocket pistol. I know the smaller and/or lighter you go the chances are reliability suffers. Maybe an MK9? Might be too heavy for a pocket. There are always the SW Airweights.
I haven't given up on the PM9 yet, too many of them work just fine for me to not try to overcome the present issues. Thanks and Happy New Year ! Dr. |
| good thinkgs comes to those who are patient.....Kahr will get your PM9 right, not good when this stuff happens either, so we do feel your pain..Kahrs PM9 is their bread and butter gun. IT WORKS. It outsellls all their other guns combined. they are good guns but shit happens as we well know. The design and weight of the PM9 IMO is not to small or to light to be considered an "iffy" gun, or they would not sell like hot cakes as they are doing. You got one for sure with lemons tied to it . Hopefully kahr will get you running right to..... |