Posted: 9/4/2013 7:13:27 AM EDT
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INFORMATION: Two LEO's end up in the water on Lake Michigan in a high wave condition. One carrying a Glock 17 and one carrying a Springfield Armory XDM 40. Both wearing the same protective clothing. Both in the water for the same length of time (approx. 30 minutes). Both guns were field stripped by the same person (Supervisor). Same method, same solvent and same oil. Officers then are issued new duty ammunition. TRIP TO RANGE: XDM fails to fire (light strike) 13 in 17 attempts. Glock 17 fired approx. 850 rounds without glitch (after the 850 rounds there was not failure, the firearm was merely cleaned and returned to service). FINDINGS: XDM firing pin channel LOADED with sand from sand that had been suspended in the water from adverse conditions. CORRECTIVE ACTION: The firing channel was properly cleaned and firearm then performed appropriately. OPINION: Most individuals will not find themselves in this situation. If you do, know this is a possibility. I know firsthand. |
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The striker channel is a liability but the question to the OP is before the water adventure who was responsible for taking care of the guns and did they do the correct maintenance specific to the guns? The two guns are obviously different and at least in terms of the XDm if whoever oil the gun got any sort of heavy oil into the striker channel, that is the cause of the problem. Because of the different construction of the two guns, it is potentially not possible to use exactly the same method to maintain the two guns using the same solvent/oil. Not saying that was the only cause but just pointing out potential problem with the conclusion. |
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Both LEO had to be transported to hospital for hypothermia. The Supervisor,a n assistant tactical leader, field striped the firearms. With the same care and caution he would any firearm. His competence is not in question. You can believe what happened or not. I know and I was there. From the start to the finish. This is not a bashing but an account of what happened, you feel free to draw your own conclusions,
This incident was not treated with prejudice, nor haphazard attitude. Read it, possibly learn from it or dismiss it. |
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Personally speaking, I don’t have any problem with your description that there was a problem with the XDm. No gun is 100% reliable, put the right bad stuff in the wrong place at the wrong time = 100% failure in any gun. My problem with your description is that it can be mis-interpreted as XDm not reliable and Glock reliable. Whether or not that was your intent really does not matter. So why my skeptism? For one thing this is one single isolated instance and in the science of evaluating results an N=1 never means anything – ask any scientist or statistician and they will tell you the same thing. Second, we have no real idea of the degree of competency of the person who originally serviced the weapon. Was he a certified Glock and XDm weapon service person? I suspect you don’t know and for that matter even a generally competent service person can make mistakes for specific firearms. Third, we have no real idea whether each of the two firearms were exposed to exactly the same condition. I understand they were both in the water and exposed to some sand but in this type of situation, the devil is in the details. For example, if they were both in the water but struggle ashore in a sandy beach and the guy with the XDm fell as they were wading ashore and fell on the beach gun side down. You can imagine that would expose his gun to a lot more sand that the other guy. We in science call this an uncontrolled conditions. Uncontrolled conditions makes intepretation of data impossible. |
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Quoted:
The Supervisor,a n assistant tactical leader, field striped the firearms. With the same care and caution he would any firearm. His competence is not in question. You can believe what happened or not. I know and I was there. From the start to the finish. This is not a bashing but an account of what happened, you feel free to draw your own conclusions, |
| The conditions were as "same" as a nonscientific condition could be based on the Incident. Both guns had been cleaned prior under the same inspector. I agree that the environment was not controlled. I can only give you facts of the individual incident. I can also attest to the fact that the firing pin was not removed on either weapon (learned after the observation of the failures). If you elect to disregard this information, I can respect that is well. I believe it was worth posting. Sorry if you find it not worthy or misinformative. Be careful out there. |
| How can you "clean" the gun without removing the striker (firing pin)? That is basic gun cleaning 101. I hope if respectfully request that this person get some training in firearm maintenance. If officers are relying on him to properly maintain their firearms, and your account is 100% accurate, that is downright scary. |
| I agree they absolutely SHOULD have been COMPLETELY dissassembled, cleaned and inspected and if it were to happen again, they would be. However, the level of cleaning that was done was equal (as you can get without a PLANNED test). Both officers went to the hospital for hypothermia. That is why it was pawned off. Both Officers absolutely should have Done it again. One officer (carrier of the Glock) would not have known better, due to youth. The carrier of the XDM ABSOLUTELY should have disassembled, cleaned, oiled and reassembled his own gun after having it returned to him. Unfortunately, I got too caught up in the administrative portion of the incident and failed to do so. HUGE fail on my part...HUGE. |
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Don’t have any problem with the supervisor firing the guns to see if they still work. No real danger involved and it’s always useful to know what can take your guns out of service. I like the info and the only thing I wish the OP would have done is to put things in context and prespective which is we don’t actually know exactly what the guns were subjected to and they may not be the same. I usually look at problems associated with my guns when I shoot them at a practice/match as a gift. As long as you take notice, figure out what the problem is, fix the problem, and make sure it does not happen again, it teaches you things about them that you want to know. |