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Posted: 1/6/2006 2:30:43 PM EDT
Ok guys, what is THE BEST ammo out there for putting bad guys down? I currently have about 1,000 rounds of Federal 158gr Nyclad's, but I've heard there are better ammos out there.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:34:29 PM EDT
Speer 135 gr
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:44:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GLOCKshooter:
Speer 135 gr



+1 Specially brewed just for the .38 at the original request of...NYPD
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:28:00 PM EDT
3 our of 3 can't be wrong! Thanks guys, my request just went in for it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:56:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By XD_Fan:

Originally Posted By GLOCKshooter:
Speer 135 gr



+1 Specially brewed just for the .38 at the original request of...NYPD


+2
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:09:08 PM EDT
I haven't any experience with the Speer 135, but the most proven is the +P 158 grain, lead, semi-wadcutter, hollow point load. (+P 158 gr, LSWCHP).

Depending on where you live, this is known as the:
FBI
Federal
St Louis
Chicago
LAPD
New Orleans load.

This load put an end to the street cop's complaints about the old 158 grain round nose lead load being a "widow-maker" for the failures to stop.

It is also occasionally know by street cops as the ".38 SPLAT" for the sound it supposedly makes when it hits.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 3:41:01 AM EDT
Just bought a box and loaded up. Very aggressive looking hollow point!
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:38:33 AM EDT
I use 125gr Golden Sabers. I haven't tried the 135 GDs yet but my M60 loves the GS and I have plenty of it.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:57:01 AM EDT
I shot about 200 +P loads through it yesterday, about 175 Nyclad 158's and 25 Gold Dot 135's.

My hand was actually CUT by the recoil of the pistol while shooting the 135gr GD's! Accuracy was a bit lacking while shooting these loads also. I guess I'll just have to practice a bit more with this stuff, but DAMN, it hurts!!!!
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:17:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 2:52:10 AM EDT by GLOCKshooter]
The only way to get it to met the FBI numbers is to push it that hard. For non +p the best out there is safestop (really expensive, single source) and regular wadcutters (not semi wadcutters). Both those rounds just go in. No expansion, but they penetrate deep enough, and both have relatively flat points, so they crush and tear through tissue rather than parting it and pushing it aside, making the most out of a .38 cal hole. Hollow points open up, making a bigger than .38 cal hole, and some fragment, making multiple wound channels, but almost all lose penetration deapth doing this. No free lunch. The 135 opens up and penetrates, but at a price.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:39:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 7:40:34 PM EDT by HKTackDriver]
I think the 135 GD's will be fine. Just a matter of practicing a bit more on technique of holding the pistol (S&W 442) and controling the recoil so that the hammer shroud doesn't bite the inside of my thumb.

Does anyone know of a good grip that may forgive the recoil a bit? How about good holsters? I'm thinking inside the pant or a pocket holster. Who makes a good one?

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:53:58 PM EDT
Triton quik shoks. I think they are 125 grain.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:43:42 AM EDT
I've got a DeSantis IWB I really love, very comfortable and it wears like iron. Think I paid ten bucks for it, it was in a box full of older stuff they put in an online sale. +3 for the Speer Gold Dots, I just ordered a bunch for me and my crew to carry as Duty Ammo, most of what the company issued them to carry is ten years old or dogshit designs. I told them they can carry anything they want as long at it's from a major maker, and not over two years old. I still carry GD's in the gun, 6 more in a speedloader, and KTW armor-piercing in the 2nd speedloader.

I figure if I'm still shooting at someone after 12 rounds, the dirty bugger is BEHIND something. The KTW is to address just such a contingency!

Papajohn
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:14:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HKTackDriver:
I shot about 200 +P loads through it yesterday, about 175 Nyclad 158's and 25 Gold Dot 135's.

My hand was actually CUT by the recoil of the pistol while shooting the 135gr GD's! Accuracy was a bit lacking while shooting these loads also. I guess I'll just have to practice a bit more with this stuff, but DAMN, it hurts!!!!



That's why I changed to the 432. 32mag is easier on the hands and doesn't bother the carpel tunnel wrists as bad.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 8:25:37 PM EDT
On a .38 Special either Hydra-Shocks or reverse loaded hollow-base wadcutters are great for home defense. The will expand rapidly, shedding all their energy inside the bad guy (important when you don't have much energy to begin with) and should not overpenetrate.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:49:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:
On a .38 Special either Hydra-Shocks or reverse loaded hollow-base wadcutters are great for home defense. The will expand rapidly, shedding all their energy inside the bad guy (important when you don't have much energy to begin with) and should not overpenetrate.


Actually, a wadcutter (reverse-loaded or otherwise), isn't going to expand at all- have you tested this yourself? Hydra-shocks are also about two generations behind the learning curve for hollowpoint design. If they were so great, everyone would still be using them.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 2:10:03 PM EDT
This is perp defense on the street. My job is criminally related and I was ID'd by gang members during Christmas shopping. My CC permit is near being approved.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 3:34:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 3:34:49 PM EDT by GLOCKshooter]
gang members

IMHO .38 is the wrong tool. The best thing I have found for multiple moving targets is a 9mm double stack autopistol. More rounds, faster follow ups, better barrier penetration (car doors, etc).
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:28:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 5:30:07 PM EDT by HKTackDriver]

Originally Posted By GLOCKshooter:
gang members

IMHO .38 is the wrong tool. The best thing I have found for multiple moving targets is a 9mm double stack autopistol. More rounds, faster follow ups, better barrier penetration (car doors, etc).



Needs to be suit coat pocket accessible. I already bought an S&W 442 and its a perfect fit, but I'm probably going to rethink a G26 in 9mm or G30 in 45acp. Or maybe I'll just stick my G19 on my hip once people become more used to me carrying. Right now though, the completely concealed snubbie is the way to go for me. Thanks for your concern though, I appreciate it!

EDIT: In talking to our anti gang unit, I found that merely hearing gunshots sends these rat fucks running. I'm only interested in taking one guy down and I expect the rest to run if it comes to that. Bad plan? Maybe, but I do carry two reloads and the gun works well for me.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:30:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dissipator556:

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:
On a .38 Special either Hydra-Shocks or reverse loaded hollow-base wadcutters are great for home defense. The will expand rapidly, shedding all their energy inside the bad guy (important when you don't have much energy to begin with) and should not overpenetrate.


Actually, a wadcutter (reverse-loaded or otherwise), isn't going to expand at all- have you tested this yourself? Hydra-shocks are also about two generations behind the learning curve for hollowpoint design. If they were so great, everyone would still be using them.



A reverse loaded hollow-based wadcutter expands violently. That big cavity is designed to upset. That's why they are so accurate. When loaded normally, expanding powder gasses cause the cavity to obturate and fill the bore, which greatly enhances accuracy. When loaded backwards, it does the same thing when it hits the target, only there is no bore to stop its expansion. The Hydra-Shok is still a first rate bullet, and the 147 grain Federal load out of the .38 Special is a fine performer. A lot of people are still using them.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:34:16 PM EDT
+1 for the FBI load

158 grain LSWCHP +P

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:13:32 PM EDT
Do you reload? If so everything is unlimted!
You can't believe how cheep a .38 is to shoot.

The +P+ hollow points are all good (but nowhere even close to a .357mag).

HBWC are desinged to punch perfect holes in paper, guess what, they punch perfect holes in human skin which leads to uncontrollable blood loss.

HBWC have to be loaded lighter than the SWC because of the hollow base.

This means you now have a lot of choices to think about. The good thing is that now you have to walk out into the woods and try them all!!! (I thought I heard a CROW?)
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:32:33 PM EDT
According to Evan Marshall's most recent (Gun World magazine, March 2001) :
Winchester 158 gr LHP+p
Federal 158 gr LHP+P
Remington 125 gr LHP+P

all are tied for top performer from a 2", with a score of 67% 1 shot stop average, each based on well over 100 shootings each. The 125 gr. Nyclad is down in the 62% range.
I carry the FBI/Treasury/whatevah load, but will switch to the 125gr. JHP+P when I shoot them all up, because I hate having to clean lead out of the rifling!

I personally carry the .38 Tiatanium Taurus only on sick days, when I don't feel like carrying a full sized gun. If I were in the least concerned about being confronted by hardened Gangsta types (don't sell them short, they may be punks but they can be dangerous), I'd go with more firepower. Please don't get yourself killed due to lack of appropriate weaponry! You have enough sense to carry, make it count.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:53:19 AM EDT
Evan Marshall and his partner Sanow have been discredited based on their math alone, which unlike many other issues people have with them, is easy to check and there IS right and wrong answer.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 9:20:01 AM EDT
For serious performance, just carry a 5" 629 Classic with 240 grain XTPs.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:13:55 PM EDT
Speer 135 GDHP
Corbon 110 DPX
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:50:10 PM EDT
I carry the 135 GD's in my 442, I believe they will perform well, I just really don't like to shoot a whole lot of them!
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:52:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HKTackDriver:
I think the 135 GD's will be fine. Just a matter of practicing a bit more on technique of holding the pistol (S&W 442) and controling the recoil so that the hammer shroud doesn't bite the inside of my thumb.

Does anyone know of a good grip that may forgive the recoil a bit? How about good holsters? I'm thinking inside the pant or a pocket holster. Who makes a good one?

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/balzac72/Pistols048.jpg


I use the Hogue on my 642.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:24:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By HKTackDriver:
I think the 135 GD's will be fine. Just a matter of practicing a bit more on technique of holding the pistol (S&W 442) and controling the recoil so that the hammer shroud doesn't bite the inside of my thumb.

Does anyone know of a good grip that may forgive the recoil a bit? How about good holsters? I'm thinking inside the pant or a pocket holster. Who makes a good one?

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/balzac72/Pistols048.jpg


I use the Hogue on my 642.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/twonami/102_0225.jpg



Already bought it and installed it on the gun. Larger profile, but makes shooting the 135's much more comfortable.
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