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Huh. Thank you. The admission that it was the target, and that it was choking on wonky hand loads with primer seating issues, and that this is the only time I've ever heard it, makes me think that might be an isolated issue. Unlike the python and the repeated issues with cylinder rotation. View Quote And lead shaving isn't necessarily a "timing" thing, although it can be. |
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I mentioned that I thought this would happen in a few Python threads, and the purist collectors poo-pood the idea.Hopefully these new pythons bring some of the old Colt prices back down a bit to reality. Not every Colt is collectible, but try telling that to a collector. I'm glad they seem to be gearing the Python and King Cobra towards Shooters instead of collectors. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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My local shop as well as local forums/Armslist are starting to clot with collectors trying to unload their "original" and "true" Colts at collector prices and they are stagnating. Local shop stopped taking consignment Colts because they know they aren't selling for what their owners want. $2500 for a flogged Python with no box. The lowest I saw was a guy trying to sell a Trooper that admitted to timing problems for $1k. "But, but, but... it's an original Colt, not these MIM filled, lemon fraught new ones!!!1!". lol Not every Colt is collectible, but try telling that to a collector. I'm glad they seem to be gearing the Python and King Cobra towards Shooters instead of collectors. Because of this, I expect the original Pythons are always going to hold a "purist" position among collectors. Because of this, I don't think the original Python market is going to take much of a hit; they're still very collectable (even though the Python is probably the least rational of all Colt markets). I can see all Python's taking a little hit in value. I see the Stainless Pythons taking the biggest hit because the new one's are the direct comparison. As it stands, there is no plan to make a Royal Blue or Bright Nickel, so I see those revolvers being pretty darned safe from a value standpoint. Although I have no plans to buy one (I have an original), I'm very excited about the new revolver. And I'm confident once the teething problems are worked out, it will be THE premier DA revolver in the US. That's very exciting. Just have patience, let Colt work it out...and I say, let others do the working out and wait a good year before buying. |
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Where Colt DA revolver are concerned, timing is not timing... Colt DA revolver timing is VERY different from the timing found on other revolvers. And lead shaving isn't necessarily a "timing" thing, although it can be. View Quote The hand/pawl isn’t turning the cylinder far enough to line up. If you wish to talk about carry up, a revolver that has to rely on inertial carry up to align the cylinder isn’t properly timed. If on the other hand the bolt/stop lets the cylinder turn to far when pushed, it still isn’t timed, just another way. |
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Great post and while I am not a huge Colt fan, this is solid information and thinking. My local shop as well as local forums/Armslist are starting to clot with collectors trying to unload their "original" and "true" Colts at collector prices and they are stagnating. Local shop stopped taking consignment Colts because they know they aren't selling for what their owners want. $2500 for a flogged Python with no box. The lowest I saw was a guy trying to sell a Trooper that admitted to timing problems for $1k. "But, but, but... it's an original Colt, not these MIM filled, lemon fraught new ones!!!1!". lol Once Colt gets the teething problems out of the way, they will sell very well. The market for these aren't the guys who "bought in" when Colts were relatively affordable when new, they are for the guys who didn't have enough money back then to get one, but are well vested or had several pay increases since . Akin to cars: The market for the Challenger isn't the guy that had one when he was a kid, fresh off the factory floor, it was for the guy who lusted for one as a kid. WHOLE lot more have nots than the haves and they have more money this time around. Akin to the car situation: I think the values on original Colts will drop slightly in the face of the newer ones, but not a ton as there will always be someone who wants an original. But the new ones are diminishing that pool because most of the folks that want a Colt didn't have the means back then but do now, why buy old and flogged when you can buy new and warranty backed? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Sounds like it's worth the watch - however I have to disagree with something. I have appreciation for the craftsmen of yesteryear, the work they put in, and the company whose reputation they help build. Respect is due, and it is given. The bluing job on a 1960 colt python, and the poor tolerances and complex design of the old python necessitating hand-fitting just to make it work, does not give me pause at all when looking at the new Pythons. At all. It also doesn't make the 2020 colts hi-points. Additionally, many argue that the 1911s they're producing today, bluing aside, are the best guns they've ever made. In that regard, superior to yesteryear. In reality, we only have the choices in front of us. As long as I've been of age to buy pistols, for a long time colt didn't really have anything I wanted. I didn't want a series 80 1911, I still don't, it's not for me. No one is begging for these grip safeties to return. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Colt_Series_80_XSE_-_pic1.jpg TODAY, colt offers me a bunch of nice series 70 1911s, real beavertails, good sights, quality steel, quality parts, you name it. As per the limitations of production 1911s, the details might have question marks - sharp slides, the occasional extractor that might benefit from some tensioning. That's not unique to colt, it's a reality of production 1911s. But today's variety is excellent - and the Delta elites of today have the lessons of the Gen 1 guns. The guns of today don't have the galling issues (and there is argument over that) or frame cracking some had in the past, due to the lessons colt learned. Which brings me to the Python. I have zero, zero interest in a guy's "$1900" python that's honestly more worn than he'd like to believe - when I can buy a mechanically simpler gun, BRAND NEW, with better steel and a stronger frame design at $1500. Some lemons aside, it's a more desirable piece to me. Thanks to the EPA, the great bluing might be a thing of the past; though the fine people at Turnbull might have something to say about the supposed demise of good bluing. The reality is, colt probably could have offered one exactly like the old one, At a pricetag like $2,600. Which immediately makes it a "custom shop" gun, lower volume. The collectors that paid $3,000 for theirs would insist theirs is still better, it would still have the flaws of the old guns to boot. The alternative - a light redesign. Simplification, better materials, with the goal of getting close to how people remember the old guns, at a price in the ballpark of the modern buyer. The knock: At launch, no bluing. Unfortunately, gun reviewers got a few lemons. Additionally, the guys who paid $2,200 for a shooter python, now telling everyone the new ones are "fake colts" Look, I don't mean to single your post out personally - but there's this "Fake Colt" idea flying around right now and it needs to go. It does seem to be mostly mega-phoned by guys worried that a non-immaculate or not-rare configuration python might lose value, and/or S&W fans hating colt and sounding edgy. It's kinda ridiculous, and needs to be treated as such. I'll watch that amazon documentary at some point, and judge it on its own merits - likely not in this thread which is just about the python But the "fake colt" idea is silly, and to bring up that manufacturing in 2020 has different realities and challenges than 1965? Is kind of a non-point, and not a fact in argument by anyone. My local shop as well as local forums/Armslist are starting to clot with collectors trying to unload their "original" and "true" Colts at collector prices and they are stagnating. Local shop stopped taking consignment Colts because they know they aren't selling for what their owners want. $2500 for a flogged Python with no box. The lowest I saw was a guy trying to sell a Trooper that admitted to timing problems for $1k. "But, but, but... it's an original Colt, not these MIM filled, lemon fraught new ones!!!1!". lol Once Colt gets the teething problems out of the way, they will sell very well. The market for these aren't the guys who "bought in" when Colts were relatively affordable when new, they are for the guys who didn't have enough money back then to get one, but are well vested or had several pay increases since . Akin to cars: The market for the Challenger isn't the guy that had one when he was a kid, fresh off the factory floor, it was for the guy who lusted for one as a kid. WHOLE lot more have nots than the haves and they have more money this time around. Akin to the car situation: I think the values on original Colts will drop slightly in the face of the newer ones, but not a ton as there will always be someone who wants an original. But the new ones are diminishing that pool because most of the folks that want a Colt didn't have the means back then but do now, why buy old and flogged when you can buy new and warranty backed? I think the MINT condition ones will hold value. Rare special editions too. The guns with more wear than their owners see? They're gunna take a haircut. A rising tide floats alll boats, and "overall" the market will calm down. Again, immaculate rare guns are another situation, but the vast majority of the ~600,000 pythons made? Are not worth "Walking Dead" bubble prices anymore. Quoted:
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My local shop as well as local forums/Armslist are starting to clot with collectors trying to unload their "original" and "true" Colts at collector prices and they are stagnating. Local shop stopped taking consignment Colts because they know they aren't selling for what their owners want. $2500 for a flogged Python with no box. The lowest I saw was a guy trying to sell a Trooper that admitted to timing problems for $1k. "But, but, but... it's an original Colt, not these MIM filled, lemon fraught new ones!!!1!". lol Not every Colt is collectible, but try telling that to a collector. I'm glad they seem to be gearing the Python and King Cobra towards Shooters instead of collectors. "Yeah it might be beat up, but it's a REAL Colt. Unlike your fake 2020 python, built in the same factory by the same company, that even takes the same grips. But see mine might be scratched up, but it was polished on a hamster wheel for five months back in 1959. Checkmate. Now pay up the $2,400 for this gun that's been scratched up and slapped closed for a few decades." |
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Quoted: Yep! I think the MINT condition ones will hold value. Rare special editions too. The guns with more wear than their owners see? They're gunna take a haircut. A rising tide floats alll boats, and "overall" the market will calm down. Again, immaculate rare guns are another situation, but the vast majority of the ~600,000 pythons made? Are not worth "Walking Dead" bubble prices anymore. In the other thread(s), the guys who were "Neckbearding" pythons didnt want to hear it. At all. "Yeah it might be beat up, but it's a REAL Colt. Unlike your fake 2020 python, built in the same factory by the same company, that even takes the same grips. But see mine might be scratched up, but it was polished on a hamster wheel for five months back in 1959. Checkmate. Now pay up the $2,400 for this gun that's been scratched up and slapped closed for a few decades." View Quote And it's not hamster skin, it's walrus hide.......... Personally, I do enjoy collecting firearms from the era where American craftsmen that had years or decades of learned machining and polishing skills built firearms. That is never coming back. EVER. I own a couple of Pythons, the cost was right at a grand. I considered that a reasonable price, especially considering a S&W K-22 or pre 4 or 5 screw .22 will pull in $800 or above if in nice shape. |
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https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18357/IMG_1540_JPG-1260540.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18357/IMG_1541_JPG-1260541.jpg Admittedly you can't see much on the forcing cone thanks to my half assed cleaning job (the outside looks clean!). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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@JsARCLIGHT You are a six gun guy! Nice review. How about a pic of the forcing cone and top strap? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18357/IMG_1541_JPG-1260541.jpg Admittedly you can't see much on the forcing cone thanks to my half assed cleaning job (the outside looks clean!). |
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https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18357/IMG_1540_JPG-1260540.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18357/IMG_1541_JPG-1260541.jpg Admittedly you can't see much on the forcing cone thanks to my half assed cleaning job (the outside looks clean!). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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@JsARCLIGHT You are a six gun guy! Nice review. How about a pic of the forcing cone and top strap? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18357/IMG_1541_JPG-1260541.jpg Admittedly you can't see much on the forcing cone thanks to my half assed cleaning job (the outside looks clean!). Thanks! |
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There's a misunderstanding about the difference between timing and alignment.
Timing is the process of a cylinder unlocking, advancing to the next chamber, and relocking. Alignment is how accurately the chamber lines up with the bore. True, spitting bullet metal can certainly be a timing problem, especially when the timing is so far off the cylinder is bypassing the cylinder locking notch and having "Throw-by". In this timing condition the cylinder is actually rotating too far and the chamber is off-center of the bore. In this condition the gun is actually firing in an unlocked condition. Alignment is almost always caused by excessive wear or a revolver that's been abused. In this condition when the cylinder is locked it's not in alignment with the bore for some reason. The new Python's timing is going to be far more durable and far less sensitive then the old Colt action models. It's basically a modified Trooper Mark III-King Cobra transfer bar safety-ignition design with a modified "Vee" spring to power it. The cylinder locking bolt design is the same that was used on the Mark III-King Cobra and the same as used by S&W and most other modern DA revolvers. The locking bolt is activated and timed by a lug on the front of the trigger. Unlike the old Colt action this type of bolt is easily timed and won't get out of order unless it breaks. |
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Update from Colt on recent Python 2020 issues
Python Update and FAQ Not sure why video does not embed. Being worked on...https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Youtube-previews-not-working/3-2298587/#i83671130 |
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Update from Colt on recent Python 2020 issues https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSBuhMC5JLA Not sure why video does not embed. View Quote |
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Update from Colt on recent Python 2020 issues https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSBuhMC5JLA Not sure why video does not embed. View Quote |
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Update from Colt on recent Python 2020 issues https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSBuhMC5JLA Not sure why video does not embed. View Quote Light primer strikes in part due to the weaker spring? The fix makes for a heavier trigger pull? It might be "within spec"? But the on the ground opinions were, that it was lighter and nicer than advertised. Part of the allure of this revolver for me, even with the high price, is that it had the trigger pull of a performance center revolver. Heavier trigger? Making it lighter puts it in a "might not fire all ammo" bucket? I'm now leaning to "interest now below 50%". The aesthetics alone aren't worth it to me, for $1500 it needs a trigger pull in the category of a S&W Perfomance Center gun. I might now kick the tires on a S&W PC 629 stealth hunter in .44 For the money, IMHO "well it's still pretty good, it's heavier now but smooth" is worth a bit less in my mind, and I'll now be looking at other platforms. $1500 is "awesome and I can't think of much I would change" tier. That said I won't risk mucking up this thread by complaining further. I'll just say I'm disappointed that one of the fixes negatively impacts the gun's shooting experience, something that put the gun in the "high interest" category. |
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Quoted: [Chris Christie] "There it is..." [/Chris Christie] Light primer strikes in part due to the weaker spring? The fix makes for a heavier trigger pull? It might be "within spec"? But the on the ground opinions were, that it was lighter and nicer than advertised. Part of the allure of this revolver for me, even with the high price, is that it had the trigger pull of a performance center revolver. Heavier trigger? Making it lighter puts it in a "might not fire all ammo" bucket? I'm now leaning to "interest now below 50%". The aesthetics alone aren't worth it to me, for $1500 it needs a trigger pull in the category of a S&W Perfomance Center gun. I might now kick the tires on a S&W PC 629 stealth hunter in .44 For the money, IMHO "well it's still pretty good, it's heavier now but smooth" is worth a bit less in my mind, and I'll now be looking at other platforms. $1500 is "awesome and I can't think of much I would change" tier. That said I won't risk mucking up this thread by complaining further. I'll just say I'm disappointed that one of the fixes negatively impacts the gun's shooting experience, something that put the gun in the "high interest" category. View Quote |
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You were never going to be a buyer anyway, so it doesn't matter. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: [Chris Christie] "There it is..." [/Chris Christie] Light primer strikes in part due to the weaker spring? The fix makes for a heavier trigger pull? It might be "within spec"? But the on the ground opinions were, that it was lighter and nicer than advertised. Part of the allure of this revolver for me, even with the high price, is that it had the trigger pull of a performance center revolver. Heavier trigger? Making it lighter puts it in a "might not fire all ammo" bucket? I'm now leaning to "interest now below 50%". The aesthetics alone aren't worth it to me, for $1500 it needs a trigger pull in the category of a S&W Perfomance Center gun. I might now kick the tires on a S&W PC 629 stealth hunter in .44 For the money, IMHO "well it's still pretty good, it's heavier now but smooth" is worth a bit less in my mind, and I'll now be looking at other platforms. $1500 is "awesome and I can't think of much I would change" tier. That said I won't risk mucking up this thread by complaining further. I'll just say I'm disappointed that one of the fixes negatively impacts the gun's shooting experience, something that put the gun in the "high interest" category. That post went past overreach and into "derp'. |
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Quoted: I had the money lined up, a dealer picked who I'd talked to specifically about it; your post is erroneous start to finish, and it was declarative in tone. That post went past overreach and into "derp'. View Quote |
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When it comes to Colt, the "market" doesn't seem to be rational. The same phenomenon exists with Winchester but to a MUCH lesser degree. For some reason, the "market" seems to go "all in" when the name Colt comes up. Now clearly there have been some Colt's that never really caught a collectors market, but for the most part, if it says "Colt" the collectors are very interested. Because of this, I expect the original Pythons are always going to hold a "purist" position among collectors. Because of this, I don't think the original Python market is going to take much of a hit; they're still very collectable (even though the Python is probably the least rational of all Colt markets). I can see all Python's taking a little hit in value. I see the Stainless Pythons taking the biggest hit because the new one's are the direct comparison. As it stands, there is no plan to make a Royal Blue or Bright Nickel, so I see those revolvers being pretty darned safe from a value standpoint. Although I have no plans to buy one (I have an original), I'm very excited about the new revolver. And I'm confident once the teething problems are worked out, it will be THE premier DA revolver in the US. That's very exciting. Just have patience, let Colt work it out...and I say, let others do the working out and wait a good year before buying. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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My local shop as well as local forums/Armslist are starting to clot with collectors trying to unload their "original" and "true" Colts at collector prices and they are stagnating. Local shop stopped taking consignment Colts because they know they aren't selling for what their owners want. $2500 for a flogged Python with no box. The lowest I saw was a guy trying to sell a Trooper that admitted to timing problems for $1k. "But, but, but... it's an original Colt, not these MIM filled, lemon fraught new ones!!!1!". lol Not every Colt is collectible, but try telling that to a collector. I'm glad they seem to be gearing the Python and King Cobra towards Shooters instead of collectors. Because of this, I expect the original Pythons are always going to hold a "purist" position among collectors. Because of this, I don't think the original Python market is going to take much of a hit; they're still very collectable (even though the Python is probably the least rational of all Colt markets). I can see all Python's taking a little hit in value. I see the Stainless Pythons taking the biggest hit because the new one's are the direct comparison. As it stands, there is no plan to make a Royal Blue or Bright Nickel, so I see those revolvers being pretty darned safe from a value standpoint. Although I have no plans to buy one (I have an original), I'm very excited about the new revolver. And I'm confident once the teething problems are worked out, it will be THE premier DA revolver in the US. That's very exciting. Just have patience, let Colt work it out...and I say, let others do the working out and wait a good year before buying. " /> |
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People who make such comments are generally tire kickers at best, and never really planned on purchasing. If you were, you would still purchase one since it is still a phenomenal revolver. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: I had the money lined up, a dealer picked who I'd talked to specifically about it; your post is erroneous start to finish, and it was declarative in tone. That post went past overreach and into "derp'. While I think the "Death" of the revolver is greatly overblown? I do only have one. For now. A ~4in .357 is a great add to a collection, so says just about every real gun guy I'm very spoiled by really good 1911 triggers, I have a custom one And then the new python comes out? Great timing. To me, in the $1500 price bracket, the Python made sense. Realities of manufacturing are what they are, and in addition to that? If I remember right, while the Colt Spec is a 7-9lb Trigger - I wanna say there were reviews that had them, honestly closer to 6.5lbs range. I was wowed. From all accounts Colt did a solid and over-delivered on that. Yes they had some teething issues, that stuff is going to be water under the bridge, IMHO. They brought back a beloved product, AND guys who had the old ones, felt they stacked up to the original. To me, price wise and performance wise? It absolutely stacked up with a S&W Performance Center gun, PLUS the python aesthetics, PLUS it was robust, PLUS it's a pleasant shooting experience (big gun in .357), etc. I think that price is/was fair. If the trigger pulls end up around 9lbs? While that's not heinous or out of the ordinary, and particularly for REAL revolver guys? I realized that for me personally? For my money? That "wow this trigger is f**king awesome" experience is and was a major, major factor in my interest. While I'm not 100% out on the Python, my enthusiasm is diminished a little by the "heavier trigger" news. With that said this is a tech forum and not GD, so I won't muck things up, if I end up going another direction I should likely start another thread about that. I'm still happy Colt is building this Python, whether I get one or not! |
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Broheim, it's being blown way out of proportion. Save your judgements until you have felt the trigger. They're not going to allow their flagship to be a piece of shit.
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Update from Colt on recent Python 2020 issues https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSBuhMC5JLA Not sure why video does not embed. Being worked on...https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Youtube-previews-not-working/3-2298587/#i83671130 View Quote |
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Broheim, it's being blown way out of proportion. Save your judgements until you have felt the trigger. They're not going to allow their flagship to be a piece of shit. View Quote Totally forgot I did that Unless I feel like paying the gunbroker rate on an older shooter python - I'm probably kinda locked in, now that I think about. God I hope you're right. |
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It's been more than two weeks since the last BS exchange here. I don't give a shit about tire kickers, theorists, or haters, but I do listen closely to folks who are knowledgeable in arenas I am not fully versed. Let's keep the thread alive via informed, knowledgeable exchanges.
I would very much like to hear from more new owners of the 2020 Python. It sounds like Colt is addressing alot of our concerns. Curious if the changes are hitting shelves yet and how folks are liking the revolver, in general. |
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It's been more than two weeks since the last BS exchange here. I don't give a shit about tire kickers, theorists, or haters, but I do listen closely to folks who are knowledgeable in arenas I am not fully versed. Let's keep the thread alive via informed, knowledgeable exchanges. I would very much like to hear from more new owners of the 2020 Python. It sounds like Colt is addressing alot of our concerns. Curious if the changes are hitting shelves yet and how folks are liking the revolver, in general. View Quote |
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Checking gunbroker closed listings 2020 pythons are going for 2500$ and up within the last week. This one for 4725$ . Did I miss the news where Colt decided to scrap it and throw the milling machines in the oceans because of Covid 19?! I put money down on one months ago at a lgs who is a COlt dealer, said I was the first person that did. Haven't heard zip from them, every time I call it's "well we just haven't gotten them from our supplier." I bet good money they are just listing them on Gunbroker....
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Quoted: Checking gunbroker closed listings 2020 pythons are going for 2500$ and up within the last week. This one for 4725$ . Did I miss the news where Colt decided to scrap it and throw the milling machines in the oceans because of Covid 19?! I put money down on one months ago at a lgs who is a COlt dealer, said I was the first person that did. Haven't heard zip from them, every time I call it's "well we just haven't gotten them from our supplier." I bet good money they are just listing them on Gunbroker.... View Quote Whole different ballgame when it's not an allocated product, that's when "[brand] dealer" means more. At least, that's how it was for the LGS I ran years ago. |
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