[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Quality 357? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/17/2016 11:47:50 PM EDT
|
I have just been getting into firearms for the last year or so. I've always been interested but never actually got around to owning. So since July of last year I've purchased a Savage bolt action, a Mossberg 500, a Ruger semi and have just put together an AR15. So to round out my collection I would like a 357 because I feel like a 44 magnum would be a bit of overkill and 357 can shoot 38 sp. My question is besides a GP100 (kind of want a different brand) what other brands make a quality 357?
|
| I am partial to Smiths but there is nothing wrong with a Ruger. Taurus revolvers are hit or miss, but I would still buy one, and especially in a caliber that the S&W would cost considereably more. I am not much of a Colt fan and there are some that Colt collectors do not even favor too much. Dan Wessons often bring more than I think they should but their interchangeable barrels are neat and you do not hear too many complaints. |
|
It completely depends on what you mean by quality.
If you want the most beautifully made and best feeling 357 revolver, buy a Colt Python. If you want the best carry revolver, buy a S&W 686. If you want the most versatile revolver, buy a Dan Wesson 715. The Ruger GP100 is a decent gun. But, it won't touch the 3 guns I've listed for that which I've listed. Here are some of mine. This photo shows a Ruger, a DW, a S&W, and a Colt. I have lots of guns from many different manufactures. 
|
|
I'm not a GP100 fan, but I do like the Ruger Six series that preceded it - the Service Six (fixed sights) , the Security Six (adjustable sights), and the Speed Six (round butt, most have fixed sights).
Don't rule out used revolvers as you'll find many revolvers that have been purchased never got shot much, and you'll find they usually made them better 20-30 years ago than they do now. The Rugers shown below cost between $350 and $400, and the Model 19 cost $450. 6" Security Six 
4" Service Six 
2 3/4" Speed Six 
The Ruger was made in response to a need for a K-frame sized revolver that would stand up to a constant diet of .357 Mag loads for duty use. The S&W Model 19 was "the .357 Mag service revolver to have, but once departments switched to practicing with 125 gr .357 Mag in addition to just carrying, they started seeing cracked forcing cones in a small percentage of Model 19s. Model 19 In that regard, I still like the Model 19 a lot and I have a 6" Model 19 that is my favorite .38/.357 revolver to shoot. Very smooth, very accurate, and one of the nicest looking revolvers ever made. 6" Model 19 
There are also J-frame sized options. Alloy frame J-frame pistols are not much fun to shoot in .357 Mag, but a steel frame Model 60 isn't bad and the SP101 is about 5 oz heavier and is more comfortable, and it's much more durable than a S&W J-frame when it comes to regular use of .357 Mag loads. The Model 60 however has a better trigger and a smoother feel over all, but you can improve the SP101trigger fairly easily with lighter hammer and trigger return springs. Model 60 and SP 101 
|
|
Quoted:
I have long advised that a first revolver should be a 4 inch S&W 686. Quoted:
Quoted:
S&W 686 I have long advised that a first revolver should be a 4 inch S&W 686. As the proud owner of a Ruger GP 100 that has seen many years of flawless service, I would fully agree with both of you. |
| I understand your wanting to own a brand you don't currently own, in that case I would also vote 686. If you want a lifetime of use gun, consider the GP or SP 100 (assuming you seek a DA revolver) I have owned all manner of Ruger firearms over the years (currently own 7) and I can tell you without hesitation, they are the best production built handguns currently available. They might not win some peoples beauty contest, but they are extremely tune-able and are capable of refinement S&W only dream about. With minimal polishing of mating surfaces and installation of spring kits, trigger break and reset are superb. If Smith overbuilt their guns like Ruger, I suppose I'd be a bigger fan for the money spent......... |
|
I wouldn't shy away from a K frame .357. Fixed sight .357 K frames like Model 13's and Model 65's can be had for a pretty good value usually. The average shooter isn't going to wear one out in their lifetime.
Another bonus is that they're a reasonable size to carry if you're feeling nostalgic from watching old cop movies. I'll also second what the other poster said about looking for used revolvers. Of the 4 .357's pictured below the Colt Lawman was the most expensive at $450. There are still really good deals out there. 
|
|
Quoted:
I understand your wanting to own a brand you don't currently own, in that case I would also vote 686. If you want a lifetime of use gun, consider the GP or SP 100 (assuming you seek a DA revolver) I have owned all manner of Ruger firearms over the years (currently own 7) and I can tell you without hesitation, they are the best production built handguns currently available. They might not win some peoples beauty contest, but they are extremely tune-able and are capable of refinement S&W only dream about. With minimal polishing of mating surfaces and installation of spring kits, trigger break and reset are superb. If Smith overbuilt their guns like Ruger, I suppose I'd be a bigger fan for the money spent......... I own one Ruger revolver and it's a SA so take this with a grain of salt, but two things: First: "Lifetime of use" is pretty subjective as it pertains to guns. There are thousands upon thousands of K,L and N frame .357's that are still going strong after years as issued police guns. The average gun owner's lifetime of use isn't going to phase any commercially available .357 save the lightest aluminum frame pocket revolver. The average shooter isn't going to shoot (can't afford?) enough hot 125gr .357 through their K frame to crack the forcing cone. Is the OP going to shoot USPSA or load the hottest rounds possible? Sure, I'd get a GP100. Mostly because I wouldn't want to ruin a gun that's out of production. The GP100 is definitely overbuilt, but that doesn't make a S&W inadequate. Second: "...for the money spent" is also a pretty subjective statement. More GP100's are being sold every day. Right now prices on pre-lock S&W revolvers are still (barely) attainable for the average gun owner. Those prices are only going to go up. GP100 prices will stay static or go down and the supply of used guns is increasing as well. Personally I wouldn't use "overbuilt" as my primary determinant of value. Not meant as a knock on GP100's or jscheel1, but definitely don't discount the older S&W revolvers. |
|
This thread is awesome. There is a lot of truth here.
S&W K frames had the barrels cut flat at the bottom of the forcing cone underneath next to the crane and ejector rod . That made the forcing cone thinner in that spot. Newer ones are completely round. Some older ones have failed with a crack in the flat spot. I don't think it is a major issue, but it has happened. Has an older Ruger (non GP series) revolver ever cracked at the forcing cone? Yes. Stuff happens. Ruger seems to be innovating more today than S&W, in my opinion. Then again, they have a larger product line. S&W revolvers are better carry guns. The guns are similar, but there are more holsters and grips for S&W revolvers, without going custom. The GP100 and Dan Wesson have the best frames for custom grips. They don't use a traditional grip frame and don't have those limits. Rugers often don't have the best triggers out of the box. But, many Ruger triggers, while different from S&W, are super easy to work on. Yet, every gunsmith knows how to create a S&W a trigger job that is smooth like butter and breaks like glass. Looks are a big issue. Many people don't like the looks of Glocks nor Ruger double action revolvers. But, look at the photos in this thread. Those Rugers look good. I own some of everything. Yes, I prefer the 686 over the GP100, and my S&W model 41 over my Buckmarks or any Ruger 22 pistol. Yet, I recently purchased a Ruger LCR 38 +P over any S&W. If I am away from home, I carry the Ruger LCP and LCR in a more readily available manner than my Glocks, though my Glocks are better combat guns. The LCP and LCR are better pocket carry guns. |
|
I have little to no experience with the Ruger revolvers. I grew up on S&W, all my Dad would buy. So I can't comment on them, good or bad.
The very first handgun I could legally buy (the day I turned 21) was this one. That make it 27 years old, it still looks new (almost). It's still here and MANY, MANY short and long guns have come and gone. But this one I love far to much to ever get rid of. Besides my youngest would probably dis-own me, he laid claim to it the first time he shot it. This still has a tight lock-up, the forcing cone is in good shape, and it's still just as accurate as the day it was new. 
|
|
My dad is a 686 man - loves them.
I am a Ruger man. You really did list great options. My 6" GP100 feels like an extension of my arm when I shoot it and after a bunch of rounds down range, that trigger is nice and smooth. Not as crisp as my dad's 686 pistols, but it is extremely smooth. |
| If you think .44 magnum is overkill, then I would recommend a .41 magnum over the .357 magnum because it has a lot less recoil than the .44 mag, but, is still more powerful than the .357 mag. Look at the S&W model 657 (stainless .41mag) or 57 (blue .41mag). If you still want a .357mag I'd suggest the S&W model 27. If you're looking for a more refined and collectable .357 mag I'd say the Colt Python (especially one with the factory tuned action). If money is no object I'd say look at the Korth .357mag revolver. |
|
Lots of great guns in this thread. I know the GP-100 has already been mentioned, but I'll give it another nod. It is very tough and available brand new at very reasonable prices. Decent trigger right out of the box and quite accurate. They may be considered pretty "plain" by many, even so, I love mine!  |
| Wow, Dakota. Great post. My compliments on durable/quality choices for .357. OP, I have had a number of .357 and .44. You are right that .44 is not the first choice. Yes, you can load it down to .44 Special and have a great gun. I have found .357/.38 very versatile and the most economical to load. I have never had a 4" 686 or 586 but think that would be a great carry gun for a lot of situations. Go used with the 686. Like Dakota I have found Pachmayr presentation grips very handy. Security-Six is a very good choice as well. |
| Having owned S&W, Taurus, Rossi, and Ruger I can honestly say that if you can afford a S&W 686 you should go for it, you will never regret it. If your budget doesn't have room for the Smith, the Ruger GP100 would be my second choice. I generally agree that the quality on Taurus is hit and miss and unless you can afford nothing else I would avoid them. |
|
Quoted:
S&W, Colt, or Ruger. Pretty much can't go wrong with any of the above. Budget, intended use, what you can track down locally to get your mitts on, etc should guide you the rest of the way. And yes, a prelock 686/586 would be a wonderful choice. If this was the first post --- the thread would be compete. OP, from what you've said it sounds like your interest is "building the collection and gaining broader experience". Nearly any of these would be a good choice. Colts will be pricey because they are all out of production. Smiths are a mainstay and offer greatest variety. Look at models 19, 66, 586, and 686 for the most part. I would not recommend "light weight" .357's for general use. Ruger makes a great product. Their discontinued "Service, Security, and Speed" Six guns are good finds on the used market. But prices can really be all over the board. In my opinion, the GP100 is a top choice on the new gun market. Value, construction, and performance are great. Personally, if the Ruger Match Champion was the first and only .357 you ever own you will not be disappointed. |
|
As you asked, I'd probably round it out to either S&W or Ruger for DA/SA, either would serve your needs. If it were SA only, it'd be Ruger or Colt. For my own preferences, I prefer S&W 6XX's models over Ruger for modern revolvers. I don't really care for Rugers ergonomics or esthetics the latter being secondary. The best you can do is to handle each one and see which of the two feel right. As for the price difference, for proposes of perspective, you're speaking roughly of 3-4 boxes of okay magnums. Why I didn't include Colt or Taurus is Colts are out of production and so are the parts. Due to that, the prices are at a premium and so are the repairs. Also, even when Colts were produced, I still selected S&W's over them. Taurus, umm, thanks anyway. There are other manufactures like Korth for the way out there prices and charter arms for more bottom of the bucket but going by your listing as what you already have, it seems more middle of the road.
For SA, I prefer current Rugers (specifically Vaqueros) over Colts. I do have SAA's and their well made but they still are SAA's. I like Rugers more modernized mechanisms but still having the old time sights, heft and rolling action. One thing I don't like and I mention it often on S&W's are their standard Hogue grips. Just to damn big for me so I switch them out. As for your mention of using 38's in a 357, yes you can. I reload so instead of getting my cylinders all caked up, I just load a lighter load 357 for range use. Something to think about. One last thing, you'll probably, over time, want something a bit below and/or above the 357. Like in a 22 or your mentioned 44. Whichever you decide on, you may want to see if they also make a corresponding match up to the 357 in another caliber, hence my saying 6XX's as opposed to the 686. It's something you may want to start thinking about now and make a plan on how you'd like your collection to grow. I tend to make selections that way and grow them out by caliber but all on the same firearm. |
|
Quoted:
I have little to no experience with the Ruger revolvers. I grew up on S&W, all my Dad would buy. So I can't comment on them, good or bad. The very first handgun I could legally buy (the day I turned 21) was this one. That make it 27 years old, it still looks new (almost). It's still here and MANY, MANY short and long guns have come and gone. But this one I love far to much to ever get rid of. Besides my youngest would probably dis-own me, he laid claim to it the first time he shot it. This still has a tight lock-up, the forcing cone is in good shape, and it's still just as accurate as the day it was new. <a href="http://s163.photobucket.com/user/HighVoltage_88/media/Firearms/20160218_160550.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t309/HighVoltage_88/Firearms/20160218_160550.jpg</a> I have one of those . Great gun and built like a tank . Those grips alone are worth 200 bucks . |
|
Quoted:
As the proud owner of a Ruger GP 100 that has seen many years of flawless service, I would fully agree with both of you. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
S&W 686 I have long advised that a first revolver should be a 4 inch S&W 686. As the proud owner of a Ruger GP 100 that has seen many years of flawless service, I would fully agree with both of you. I'm in the market for my first revolver. Why would you say that? |
|
For a general purpose .357magnum the S&W 686 is a good choice. Heavy enough that you can shoot magnum loads all day but still handy enough that with the right holster you can carry it easily (probably not ideal for CC but I am sure people do it). They are accurate, robust and reliable. The single-action trigger and adjustable sights make them well suited for shooting targets at longer ranges. While the double-action trigger and hammer block makes them inherently safe to carry fully loaded but ready to go into action. With longer barrel lengths you will get better accuracy, lower perceived recoil and increased bullet performance.
FWIW- My pre-lock 686-plus with a 6" barrel is one of my "never gonna sell" guns. |
Go full Punisher
 Evil black guns by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr
|
|
I've been shooting revolvers (and auto pistols) for nearly five decades now and have been well entertained by the fads that have come and gone, forever and ever, Amen.
My recommendations, having owned and operated most everything out there, are: Buy American. Avoid the imports like the plague. You could do a lot worse than one of the Ruger revolvers. My experience with them is limited to one Security Six, but it was a really good gun and I was retarded to trade it off. As far as Colts, you've missed the boat on affordable Pythons, but the Trooper (pre-Mk III and Mk 5) are easily findable and you can buy two or three of them for the price of a Python, and are just as good of a gun. I defer to somebody else's judgment concerning the Mk III and V Trooper, but can't imagine they'd be too bad. If you like to beat the sheet out of your hands with full bore 357 loads every day all day, avoid the K-frame Smiff''s and go with 586 or 686 (L-frame). Or, if you enjoy class, go with the Model 27. That is THE revolver the 357 cartridge was designed around. There is not one damn thing wrong with the Model 27, except perhaps that I don't currently own one! Don't discount the Model 28 Smiff as it's virtually the same thing as the 27, just not as flashy. If you can put up with a fixed sight gun, Smiff made the 581 and 681 models on the L-frame and they're pretty much bullet proof. If you are a reasonable person and can limit use of hot loads, no less an authority than Bill Jordan championed the Model 19 Smiff as the ideal social revolver and anyone who can shoot better than Bill Jordan did is entitled to have another opinion. Alternatively the stainless steel Model 66. Alternatively the fixed sight Model 13 or 65. Shoot light stuff for screwing around at the range and hot loads for social circumstances, if any. Used under those parameters, any of the K-frame Smiff's will live longer than you will. 4" guns are a lot handier than 6" guns. But 6" guns will be a little easier to shoot well. If you ever see a 5" Model 27 Smiff, mortgage the kids and buy it. The older I get, the more I appreciate the simplicity of fixed sight guns. They're everything you need, and nothing you don't. Also they're cheaper to buy...... And finally, there are probably more funsmiths out there who can work on Smith & Wesson revolvers than Colt's, but that will vary locally. And finally-finally, your mileage, it may vary. But I doubt it. And finally-finally-finally, you get any of the above (and I bet you can't eat just one) you will be well armed, regardless of what anyone tells you otherwise. Remember that it is the Indian, not the arrow. Therefore always strive to be the Indian. |
|
Just stay away from the Colts and Taurus'. S&W has a lifetime warranty but the new ones have the locks so the used price is going to be high for a no lock if that's what you want. Ruger also has a lifetime warranty and can shoot any commercial loads like buffalo bore, double tap and underwood. The Colts are very expensive unless you want to buy and hold for resell, Ive read years ago that Colts should receive more frequent tuning due mainly to timing than Smiths but IDK. Also Ive read (on Grant Cunninghams blog) that there are only a handful of gunsmiths that work on Colt double actions anymore. Grant stated that himself and another guy as the only ones capable of correctly gunsmithing the Colt double action, and they have a multi-year waiting list.
FYI: Grant Cunningham states that he makes his own Colt parts as Colt doesn't have or sell any parts or drawings of parts. He did this by buying and borrowing as many Colt double actions as he could and measured each part to come up with a gunsmith fit part tolerance, since each revolver part was hand fitted to that revolver at the factory. So it isnt a simple drop in or part swap. |
|
Quoted: Another vote for the 686. Love mine: http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/INMY01TA/Guns/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20686/image.jpg1_zpsojktpikk.jpg I'll vote for the 686 as well. OP, I just bought my first revolver this last November. It was a toss-up between the GP100 and 686. I think I would've been happy with the GP100, but my eyes just liked the 686 a little more. Love the trigger.
|
|
I read the disclaimer in the OP, but I still have to put in a good word for the GP100. I am mostly a "Smith guy," but my 4.2" GP100 has impressed me from day one. I bought it new in the summer of 2014 and it has been my most-shot revolver since then. With this revolver in my hands, I can become a deadly semi wadcutter-dispensing turret. The double-action trigger is perfect for staging precision shots or laying waste to plate racks and Steel Challenge targets. The single action trigger is nice, too, but probably 98% of the shooting has been DA. It has been shot in competition, brought on hikes and canoe trips, carried concealed, and kept ready for home-defense duty. Up until the first of this year I wasn't keeping a shooting log with round counts, but I know I have put probably 2500-3000 rounds through this gun.
.38 Special 158gr. LSWC, .357 158gr. LSWC, and .357 158gr. XTPs all shoot to essentially the same point of aim out to 25 yards. The gun came with the sights set for a six-o'clock hold and I have kept it that way. The barrel doesn't lead easily, even when I push cast bullets with H110 powder. Recoil is pleasant with 158gr. bullets in the 1250 fps category, and double-action shooting is a hoot with these loads. I know that part of my good experience with this revolver is due to the fact that the Hogue Monogrip fits my hands perfectly. I carry it in a Simply Rugged OWB pancake holster and use HKS 586 speedloaders. I won't be letting this gun get away. Can you tell that I love this revolver? 
All that said, I'm still on the hunt for the right S&W 27 or 28... 
|