"COC prevents me saying what I really want to say to you. 'Click.'"

It would do.  Might look @ the Hornady Critical Defense Lite loads if your mom has trouble w/ 115 grn loads.  A 3" or 4" bbl .38" Special would probably be a bit easier to shoot well.

Ruger LCR or LCRX in .38 Special or .357 Magnum (shooting .38 Specials) with either a 2" or 3" barrel. Both your mother and father will be very happy with it....<><....:)

s&w m10
If you are set on revolvers then a 4" smith. Jgsales has light barreled, 4" m10's for under $400. I like rugers too but ive never shot their polymer snubs. Ive heard they dont recoil "that" bad due to flex. I love my metal rugers though. Id avoid taures guns like the plague. I had a recent manufactured 85 break its hammer durring shooting and bounce of my forehead. I exchanged it and the trigger snapped inside 100 rounds.

Colt DAs are my favorite 38s. Police Positives might warrant a look but will probably be more money than the s&w I posted above.

Next time you have your mom try to manipulate a slide on a semi have her hold the gun closer and push the gun away from her. Ive seen petite women completely change their outlook on semis using this method.

Also, how is your mom going to remember to open the cylinder 3 times more often on a revolver then on a compact 9?

Im not trying to change your mind but the second point I posted should be thought about. Reloading a revolver is a little more complex and requires more fine motor skills.

That isnt a deal breaker but it should be a conversation.

A couple supporting thoughts:

First, I agree with you on technique, when it comes to females racking the slide on a semiautomatic.  It helps to have them hold the slide with their left hand over the top with the left fore arm tucked in close to their stomach, then use their entire right arm along with some hip rotation to push the pistol forward against the slide to rack it.   I have yet to encounter even a petite female who can't manage that, even with arthritic hands.

Second, I agree with you that reloading a semi-automatic pistol is much easier than reloading a revolver, particularly under stress when fine motor skills tend to disappear, and in the dark or by feel alone.   That's an advantage that has been acknowledged since WWI, when the P08 Luger and 1911 Colt demonstrated their stuff.

And a couple not so supporting thoughts:

First, nearly all self defense shoots will be over in 5 seconds or less with 5 rounds or less fired at 5 yards or less.  In fact a couple years ago the FBI studied agency involved shoots over the 12 previous years and found that 75% of all agent involved shoots occurred at ranges of 3 yards or less with no more than 3 rounds fired.

In short, tactical reloads are a great thing to practice (and I advocate making every reload you do a practice tactical reload), but in the real world they are most likely not something you'll ever have to use in a self defense situation.  And of course the statistics on shots fired in self defense shoots means a 5 shot J-frame will offer all the capacity the OP's parents will ever need in a self defense situation.    

Second, revolvers, once loaded, are simple to use - point it at the bad guy, pull the trigger, and keep pulling the trigger until it stops making loud noises.  The immediate action for a failure to fire is to pull the trigger again.   Provided nothing actually jams a cylinder, and you're not using ammo that allows a bullet to back out of the case under recoil, even inexpensive revolvers tend to be very reliable.   Automatics are a little more selective about ammo and they are a little more demanding about maintenance.   A revolver will also fire very effectively and reliably inside handbag, where an automatic may not given the need for unhindered slide movement and ejection of the spent cartridge case.  

----

Which is why, as much as I like semi-auto pistols, I recommended my 79 year old mother get a S&W Model 36 or a S&W Model 60, shooting standard pressure .38 Special.

GET BOTH

get him a 642 air weight snubbie for CCW

get them a model 10 or 19/66 (4") for the nightstand


an alloy snuubie takes a lot of practice to get proficient

Do you have reading issues? What do YOU get from this with your self appointed mission to crusade here, in the revolver forum? Over half of what you're saying isn't true or you're being over-analytical of things.

And why can you not strive to help the OP with he wants versus what you want?

This all valid and pertinent in the application the OP described.

The blue part: .327 has 6 in the cylinder.
Obviously, I'm a fan of that chambering for shooters that have strength or hand issues (such as arthritis). And it's a pretty good round ballistically too.

Cheers!
-JC

I don't see any advantage to pocket snubs if you're not trying to conceal it.  Especially for weak shooters.
Hitting a target is much harder with snubs than a full sized revolver.

.38sp out of a full sized .357 will have less recoil and better follow up shots.  If the little old lady can't put the first and second shot on target she won't need reloads.

I suggest they try shooting a few med and full sized revolvers with defensive loads.  If the j frame jumps out of her hand with defensive loads she needs a heavier gun.

Your Folks need to actually FIRE ONE!  This is not like shoes or a hat "It fits " .Why does it have to a Snubbie ,"So Mom can use it"?  When those little  Snubbies go off its a whole different story than just holding it going click. I would go with a 3" or 4" S&W.  I would stay away from +P ammo.  A personal defense load in standard pressure will do fine. I worked at a Gun store for a few years.  Sold  many a gun that fit "just right' ,that came back for a trade after shooting it.

I agree.

I was addressing the OP's stated needs according to his father. He stated his father wants a snubbie for concealment and that it is of his opinion that a 4 inch would be a bit to big for the occasional "monthly" carry.

So IMO, if they're insistent on a snub-nosed revolver I thought I'd offer up what I thought is the best advice within the context of OP's stated needs.

Cheers!
-JC

You'll note a common theme in the short barrel revolvers below - they all have steel frames.  Alloy snubbies will beat on you pretty good, especially with anything over a standard pressure .38, but a standard pressure .38 in a Model 36 (bottom) isn't bad at all.   In fact, the first handgun I ever shot at age 12 or so, was a Model 36 with standard pressure .38s.  




We should talk about accuracy while we're at it.  Sad fact is most hand gun shooters (and I'll bet hit supplies to the majority of people on this forum) are not very good with handgun, even in slow fire as they don't practice nearly enough. I doubt many of the people with handgun you encounter on the range could draw, shoot a double tap and keep them both inside the 8 ring on a B-27 target at 7 to 10 yards.

The good news however is that self defense shoots tend to happen at very short range, and at 1 to 3 yards, even those not so hot shooters can at least keep the rounds on a B-27 silhouette.

That's a good thing as most law enforcement officers are not gun people and are also not very good shots under realistic conditions given that they usually limit their shooting to semi-annual or annual qualification shoots.  In fact, most officers admit to not using sights at all in actual defensive shoots, which partly explains the very low hit percentage at 7 yards or less and the even lower hit percentage beyond 7 yards. You have to practice long and hard to develop the grip, trigger control and eye motor loop sufficiently to use a flash sight picture effectively under stress.  

Which is to say, unless granny is going to practice a couple hundred rounds a week until she masters those skills, accuracy just isn't a factor in the 1-3 yard engagement she's most likely to be engaged in.   She's going to point it at the bad guy and pull the trigger, and a 2" revolver tends to point pretty naturally for most people.  

Plus, for anything over 3 yards, the fact that she's got a gun and the bad guy is receiving fire will probably be enough to end the incident.  Not too many people want to get shot, even by little old ladies.

Mom is particularly adept at shooting  pistols with long trigger pulls in the 15-18lb range with extremely limited ammunition capacity?  How good is she with a speed loader?

Actually the first half of  my post is helping him find a revolver, including a link. Do you have reading issues?

I may be over analytical but im not wrong.

Yes, you are wrong because this is not the forum for it. Revolver forum, think about it because at least I can read/stay on topic without pushing for something that is not topic related.

GSL,
I just reread this thread and you have posted zero advice to  the OP, ZERO. Get off your soap box and try answering his question.

OP: I think your mom should go to a local range and get some instruction. Not an intensive weekend class but an hour of instruction. Especially since you say she will seldom shoot.

It will also give her some proffesional instruction on proper manipulation of both revolvers and semis. I think if she's shown the best way to manipulate both she will be able to make an informed decision. And even if she stays with the revolver she will get some advice on reloading which will help.

03RN, you have constantly tried to to get someone not to choose a revolver, which makes no sense because if you would actually read the OP, you could have actually stopped before you had even started.

And you want advice? Ruger LCR in .327 Federal. Decent round and great recoil management with it for all ages and genders. Happy now?

And this crusade in the revolver forum is getting mighty old and grossly disrespectful to say the least.


"Click."

If you actually read the op you would have noticed his desire for a revolver wasnt based on an informed decision.

Choosing a snubby for an elderly women because she cant rack a slide "screams" get her some professional instruction. If after a lesson and some shooting she still wants a snubby then fine. Thats an informed decision. Thats what my 3 post crusade is striving for.

OP, if you go with a .327 be aware that local wallmarts or gun stores may not carry ammo. They dont around here. You'll either need to make sure they'll order it online or you will.

What kind of defensive ammo is out there for the .327?

GSL, kinda ironic that I recommended one of the polymer rugers like 2 pages ago

Eta: Not sure how controllable these are but everything else seems to be out.
Buffalo Bore .327

In new production the Ruger LCRx in .38 special with the 3" barrel probably most closely meets the OPs stated criteria.
http://www.ruger.com/products/lcrx/specSheets/5431.html

Of note is that Charter arms has a new 6-shot .38 special revolver built on the Bulldog frame.  20 oz, all steel.
http://www.charterarms.com/collections/undercover/products/73840-police-undercover

I think a used 4" Smith (light contour barrel) is in general a better choice.  (If the OP can convince his father that a 4" isn't too big for occasional carry)

Personally, I would steer you toward any 6-shot .357 or 38 +p rated rate gun with a 2 1/2 or 3 inch barrel.

I think Charter Arms, S&W, Ruger would all work well

A lot of good advice here guys..and I truly mean that......I could do without the pissing match but I guess that is what happens when there are so many "experts" crammed into one area.  With that being said, Mom is not old and arthritic....She just turned 60, is healthy and lean and could put a hole in someone if someone threatened her or her family.  I agree that a snub might be a bit much but again, she is not a shooter. If she picks this gun up, it will be to put a hole in someone in an emergency. I guarantee she will not be attending "Operator" classes....and wont be wearing 5.11 tactical pants.....Will she go out to the range with me to ensure that she knows how to use it?  Yup....I will insist on it.
Chances are that if it is a self defense situation, Dad will be handling it. As for her racking a slide, I don't think it was a strength issue ....it was a "where do I pull again?"....I think the dark color of most semi auto lowers blends into the dark colored slide and she gets worried she will pull on the wrong part....if that makes sense..?  Perhaps a semi auto with a stainless slide might alleviate this issue....   I was considering a 9mm revolver for recoil mitigation but took it off the table due to moon clips....moon clips are stupid......I have recently been looking at the Ruger GP100 with a 4 inch barrel...probably in .357 but shooting .38....I have never shot a gp100 but it looks beefie and may absorb a bit more recoil.......I would consider something in .327 but I am completely unfamiliar with the round....If one of you would educate me on the .327, I am listening.....

Moon clips are the fastest way to load a revolver, seemingly.  9x19mm will have more recoil than .38" SPL, however.

Slides and grips can be painted.  S&W makes an inexpensive 2-tone 9x19mm semi-auto.

.327" is much like the .357" SIG - designed to match one particular, popular .357" mag load in a different platform.  In .327"'s case, that was a 6 shot snubbie, instead of a 5 shot.  Like all magnums, always better in a longer bbl.  .327" will also run the older .32" H&R mag, as well as the older .32" long & short loads.  Expensive, hard to find, and .32" hollowpoints won't open up to the same diameter as 9mm hollowpoints, but there are some .327" loads that meet the FBI 12" criteria out of a 2" bbl revolver.  Lots of noise, flash, & expense to get one extra shot out of a snubbie.

The 327 mag is a sharp recoiling round, but the beauty of the chambering is the fact that you can use lower recoiling calibers.  I talked my brother into the Ruger LCR 327 for his wife, she is very recoil sensitive til this revolver she was only comfortable with .22's.  He was worried about Walmart not carrying the round but every gun store in town plus Gander Mtn, Basspro and Cabelas carry at least one caliber in the 32 chambering (if you forget to order a few boxes online).  So my brother ordered a box of 32 s&w long, 32 h&r mag, and 327 mag., my sister in law a little scared shot the 32 s&w long and loved it.  She shot up a 50rd box of 97gr. Fiocchi FMJ and said this is it!  My brother and I went ahead and shot the 32 h&r mag and 327 mag., both were considerably more powerful in recoil sharpness and figured she should stay with the 32 s&w long for now before trying to move up.  Now if your parents have a 357 or 38 revolver and you dont reload how hard is it to find a weaker 38spl if they need it, and when if you find it is your Walmart going to carry it how about your/their local gun store stocking it?

Hornady Critical Defense Lite @ your local Academy.

Well, if it's not going to be a snub-nosed revolver I will redact my suggestion for .327. It's still a great round, but if they're going to use a larger/heavier gun then the more popular chambering of .38/.357 just makes more sense IMO.

Keep us posted OP, and curious as to how the range trip goes. Will there be a chance for them to "try before they buy"?

Cheers!
-JC

Well, I spoke with Dad again last night....He asked me to bring over all of my pistols again.....and again, we methodically went through them with my Mom present. With all of mine on the table, he consistently kept picking up my S&W 459... He had Mom fiddle with it again and out of my semi-autos, it is the only one where she has very little difficulty racking the slide. My father likes the double action of it and stated that he could leave it in the tap safe chambered, and Mom could shoot it single action.....  He still likes the idea of a revolver but I explained to him that a revolver would best serve him in the 4 inch range of barrel.....He understands this and knows Mom would have a hard time holding up a big revolver such as my 6 inch 686.....  So, they are both leaning towards something similar to my 459 Semi auto....  Please don't kick me out of this group back to the semi auto guys.....lol....I give it a few days and my parents will change their mind again.   Mom asked me last night if I thought it would just be better if they got a BB gun.....   I would flat out give my dad my 459....But I cant as it was my father in-laws service pistol....He was a Sheriffs Reserve Deputy when I began dating his daughter......my wife wants it to stay in our household...to be given to my son when he is old enough.

Maybe a gun a piece is an option?  I have discovered that female non shooters greatly prefer a revolver do to ease of use.

I want a .327 so bad I can't stand it. All the 32 H&R mags I have had also shot .32acp. I hear a weak primer strike is sometimes possible but I never experienced one.

Go for it!  After talking my brother into the LCR 327 for his wife he decided that day that he wants a second one for himself.  I bought one later that week which replaced my LCR 9mm.  I talked my cousion into the LCR 9mm last year and its his favorite but he was with us shooting the 327, now he is looking at getting one for his wife and maybe one for himself too.  Hey Ruger just IM me for my address for my commission checks!

Sorry, didnt mean to DB Cooper it, just wanted the virtues to be known

well then how about this

What about a 4" SP101 in .327?

An unorthodox but functional option is the Chiappa Rhino .357 snub. Loaded with 38 special +p it is a very soft shooting revolver, easily concealable & moon-clip compatible. Ugly and expensive but it seems to function quite well. I have the 6" 60ds. My mother who is 5 foot nothing carries a 4" .357, she says anything smaller/lighter hurts her hand.
YMMV

https://www.google.com/search?q=yankee+marshal+chiappa+rhino&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8