Posted: 10/21/2015 12:58:16 PM EDT
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I figured I'd ask this in the wheelgun forum because you guys might know where I'm coming from.
I have two guns that have needed repairs for a long time and I might have found the right person to do it locally. Apparently he has worked on both of the platforms I want fixed a good amount and that was part of the battle of getting these worked on. The other part of the dilemma is choosing the right gun when I want "more" than my 442 for CCW. Which is no doubt a great carry gun. So.... now that it's getting colder I feel I can get away with a bigger gun and want to at times. My first options are very large guns that I was going to OWB. I have IWB'd them in the past, but it's just.... not optimal. My M9 and a full sized .45 M&P. I shoot the M9 way better so the nod goes to it, but it is a big gun. I can still do it with the right clothes, but I have an opportunity to fill this role a little better I think. I have a Browning HiPower that needs work on the sear / hammer engagement and I also have a Colt DS that is out of time. Now, I have shot the HiPower enough to know that I shoot it relatively well and better than any snubby gun. I'm newer to revolvers. But that being said, I LOVE shooting revolvers and I can shoot my Model 19 really well in DA. But that's not a carry gun. It's got a 6" barrel. You guys probably know all this if you've been following my posts over the last year or two. So... The big dilemma is always money. There is only so much to go around so I'd like to choose wisely in this next step. Do I have him fix the HiPower? Or fix the Colt DS? Or go one step further beyond that and find a good 3-4" K frame? I figure if I'm going to spend money fixing either of those, it might get close to what I could get a decent Smith for. The HiPower is my favorite auto and I've been bummed since it's been down. It is a great size for carrying and is still a bigger gun. I have holsters that work with it and 5 mags. I am concerned about if I get it fixed if the sear / hammer will last, but I would think it should. I think I just got a bum deal on that one. The Colt DS is a beautiful gun and it was my first carry gun. I never did shoot it very well in DA, but I think part of that is it being out of time and the other part my being a revolver newb. It was my first centerfire handgun though. That one too I'm a little concerned about if getting it fixed if the Colt system just isn't too dainty for lots of shooting. I don't think it had very many rounds through it before going out of time and that's irritating. And the third option seems like a good one too. About getting a 3-4" k frame. Would love to find one in DAO. I don't really think you can go wrong with a good older smith. Seems like the right answer too. What do you guys think? I'm really leaning towards getting the HiPower fixed, but thought I'd chew on it for a few days and get some input. 
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First of all there are very few Smiths that can properly tune the old Colt lockwork. Most people send them to Colt anymore. Unless your local guy can really back up his claim to expertise on the Colt, I'd shy away.
Tweaking a Hipower is pretty straight forward. Most smiths should be able to handle that project. 3 to 4 inch k frame. A decent four inch can still be found in the mid 400 range. IF you find a three inch at all (unlikely) you will pay more, a lot more. Moneywise fixing the Hipower is your lowest cost option. Fitting C and S hammer, sear and safety should be no big deal. |
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Quoted:
First of all there are very few Smiths that can properly tune the old Colt lockwork. Most people send them to Colt anymore. Unless your local guy can really back up his claim to expertise on the Colt, I'd shy away. Tweaking a Hipower is pretty straight forward. Most smiths should be able to handle that project. 3 to 4 inch k frame. A decent four inch can still be found in the mid 400 range. IF you find a three inch at all (unlikely) you will pay more, a lot more. Moneywise fixing the Hipower is your lowest cost option. Fitting C and S hammer, sear and safety should be no big deal. |
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After some more thought and advice on smith and wesson forum, I'm good with getting the HiPower fixed. I really love that pistol and would like it to be in regular carry rotation.
As far as a speed six, I can't see how one would be that much cheaper than a good smith and I'd rather have a smith. Although I'm not against rugers. I almost bought an SP101 a while back. |
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The 3" K frame is my favorite.
There are tons of 4" model 64's out there right now. Get one cheap and have it cut to 3". Ahlman's in Morristown MN quoted me around $150 + the cost of the front sight for this work. http://www.ahlmans.com/ |
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I'm kind of hard headed ole guy but you have me confused about your Colt DS being out of time. If the DS is spitting lead it may be out of time or are you concerned about extensive shooting making the timing worse? If the DS is locking up tight you can test this by shooting next to a piece of cardboard to tell if junks of lead are being shaved off from the forcing cone upon being fired. Many a Cop carried and shot qualification courses for 10 years or more before requiring their DS to be worked on.
As far as the Browning High Power your picture shows your pistol has good sights and large safety. Remove the magazine safety if the trigger is to heavy otherwise leave it alone and shoot it. Sounds like to me your trying to improve your shooting buy spending money on the guns. The only way the guns performance is going to improve is by you shooting more. If the High Power hammer is following the slide forward and not staying cocked by all means fix it. It sounds like to me your guns are fine but the shooter needs the work. |
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Quoted:
I'm kind of hard headed ole guy but you have me confused about your Colt DS being out of time. If the DS is spitting lead it may be out of time or are you concerned about extensive shooting making the timing worse? If the DS is locking up tight you can test this by shooting next to a piece of cardboard to tell if junks of lead are being shaved off from the forcing cone upon being fired. Many a Cop carried and shot qualification courses for 10 years or more before requiring their DS to be worked on. As far as the Browning High Power your picture shows your pistol has good sights and large safety. Remove the magazine safety if the trigger is to heavy otherwise leave it alone and shoot it. Sounds like to me your trying to improve your shooting buy spending money on the guns. The only way the guns performance is going to improve is by you shooting more. If the High Power hammer is following the slide forward and not staying cocked by all means fix it. It sounds like to me your guns are fine but the shooter needs the work. No, I'm not trying to improve my shooting by spending money on guns. I have researched the issues with these guns extensively and they are indeed, issues. I'm not sure I want to spend the time to prove that to you right here. Think what you want. The Colt, yes, does throw shards of the bullet out the side. It also shows wear on the opposite side of the lead, meaning it is going to far before the bolt or hand drops in when firing DA (exhibiting throw by) and I'm getting off center primer hits. I also can rotate the cylinder a touch for it to drop in when cocking the hammer slowly. Each cylinder. That last one is not as much of a problem as the first three. The HiPower, when I hand cycle it, the safety sticks. Sometimes it won't even go unless I pull the hammer back further. Sometimes it will go with force. The sear / hammer engagement is not fully cocked and not quite right when cycling the action. It might be fine while firing but it's not quite right. I put a new factory sear in there because it failed the click test, which is just another symptom of the hammer / sear engagement not being proper. The new sear did fix that but the hammer is still not fully engaged when hand cycling the action. Now don't take this the wrong way, but understand this has been years of consternating and studying and asking people on several boards etc etc and my patience has run thin on all of it. So it pisses me off when someone thinks they can look at two pictures of guns in a post and think they know what the heck is going on with them just because they might not have ever had problems with examples they have dealt with. I've been around guns long enough to know that they can have issues sometimes. And it's not the shooters fault. 
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Quoted:
The 3" K frame is my favorite. There are tons of 4" model 64's out there right now. Get one cheap and have it cut to 3". Ahlman's in Morristown MN quoted me around $150 + the cost of the front sight for this work. http://www.ahlmans.com/ That is a solid plan too. Maybe I should sell the Colt and use the funds to do that. Because I sure would love a working 6 round carry revolver. |
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I know. I'm becoming an old guy revolver junkie too. Which kind of makes this hard. But I do think I need to get the HiPower fixed regardless. Because out of all of my autos, it's my favorite.
I need a .22 revolver really badly for the kids and wife and even me. |
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If you send the DS to Colt repair time will be slow, but to the finest standards.
If you don't want to wait, send it to Frank Glenn in Arizona. He's a well known Master pistolsmith who's specialzes in Colt DA revolvers. He's out of service due to illness until the first of the year. Whatever is wrong with the Colt, Colt or Glenn can correct it back to factory new spec condition. http://glenncustom.com/ The Colt DS is THE classic carry revolver. It always had the reputation of being the finest quality snubby revolver and was well known as being the most accurate of them all. Since Colt no longer makes them value will only go up. Virtually any gun shop will have at least several S&W 4 inch "K" frames, and although the 3 inch "K"'s are getting hard to find, if you shop around you can still find them in .38 Special and .357 Mag, and in blue or stainless. Of these, probably the best CCW version, other then rare models like 3 inch Model 66's, the 3 inch FBI Model 13 or the 3 inch Model 64 or 65 are probably the best of them all, and may well be the ultimate CCW revolver. |
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Sure, make me spend more money..... LOL. I'm just kidding. I know I should get it fixed. A gun that doesn't work and is just sitting there is hard to stomach.
I will say this though, I've read most of Stephen Camp's material online and I read his book about HiPowers. But on his website he talks about how he has a DS but never shoots it because he couldn't get used to the trigger. And not to regurgitate somebody else's wisdom for the sake of doing it. I find myself feeling the same way. The DS I have has a really smooth and lighter pull than my 442. But how it stacks at the end makes it kind of harder to keep on target during the pull. With the Smith's I have, they start out heavy and then lighten up and move through smoothly. I think more shooting and I could get used to it eventually. Plus, I just looked at the two together today again. If you set the Centennial framed J frame next to the DS and compare them, the 442 can sit so much lower in your hand. Like more than a 1/2". If you look at where the top of the hand / grip section part is in relation to the barrel. I think it makes a difference in felt recoil. And control. I actually think the Colt's takedown lever is better because you won't accidentally open it up under recoil. And the 442 put a gouge in my right thumb once. Although that sort of plays the other way and the Colt is a bit more difficult to open. Especially under stress. Anyways.... they both have their pluses and minuses and I've just not had as good as experience with the DS. So I'm not really on board with it being "THE" snubby to measure all snubbies by. But I could see why one might come to that conclusion. There is definitely a lot to like. But seeins how Mr. Camp says the same thing, I don't think I'm alone in my evaluation. I think we've probably had this conversation before and for that I apologize. |