Posted: 12/12/2014 3:12:40 PM EDT
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Hello gentlemen,
After a close encounter with a rattlesnake last weekend while out prowling around, I've decided I should purchase some type of pistol to carry with me to keep bird shot loaded in. My first thought was a Taurus Judge, but after more thought I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't look for a used Ruger or Smith .357 and keep bird shot loaded in it. Any opinions on the better route? I'm not looking for anything fancy, just a good wheel gun to keep on me when I am out in the brush. The area I just moved to is notorious for a large population of rattlesnakes. |
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A rattle snake will get your heart pumping.
I grew up in Western SD and spend the better part of my adult life there. I learned at an early age where rattle snakes are likely to hang out and have only had 2 close calls in the 40 or so years I lived there. The first was when I was a young, throwing bales on the ranch and found one as a lifted a bale off it. It's amazing how far you can jump with a 75 pound bale when you're properly motivated. The second was with a rattle snake warming itself on my drive way right after dark at the bottom of the steps where I stepped over it. I scared it, it scared me, (as I'd never heard a snake hissing and rattling that loud, and right under my feet). I set a standing long jump record, drew my .45 and shot it 5 times, which scared everyone in the parking lot of the golf course next to my house. All they could see and hear were muzzle flashes and gunshots, and all I heard was slamming doors and flying gravel. If anyone called 911, dispatch apparently figured out it was one of their investigators and I never heard anything about it. Funny as hell in retrospect, but mostly just very exciting at the time. ---- Generally speaking rattle snakes are very predictable and will stay in brush, along fence lines, etc and you'll rarely encounter them in the open. When they out in a sub division a couple miles south of our land it displaced a lot of rattle snakes and for a couple years we had snakes in the hangar, snakes in the yard, and snakes generally in places they wouldn't normally be, but that was an unnatural response to some fairly massive disturbance of their habitat. ---- In terms of shot cartridges: The small CCI .22LR cartridges are pretty marginal. You need to be within about 3-4ft to be effective. Beyond that the pattern opens up with the 31 grains of shot and velocity of the #12 shot they uses falls off to the point of being ineffective. The .22 Magnum shot cartridges have 52 grains of shot and a bit more velocity so the effective range is a more useful 5-6 ft. Their 9mm Luger shot shells are 53 grains of 12 shot and are no more effective than the .22 Mag - actually a bit less effective in my opinion as the shot column is shorter and more spread out when it leaves the barrel. .38 Special is where they really start to get effective, with 100 grains of #9 shot at respectable velocity. .45 ACP and .45 Colt are even better with 120 grains and 150 grains of #9 shot respectively. .44 Special splits the difference at 140 grains. All of the above tend to leave a hole in the pattern around the shot capsule but it's also heavy enough to do some damage With the .45 Colt you can leo cut down and roll crimp a .410 shot shell and get an impressive shot payload, but it's a lot more work. The thing to keep in mind is that the rifled barrel plays hell with shot patterns so they all continue to be fairly close range propositions. ---- Generally speaking semi auto pistols won't function with a shot shell due to the low payload weight, so a revolver is a better bet for a shot load. If you've got a DA revolver you can carry a couple shot shells and four hollow points and then if you need one instead of the other, you can just open the crane slightly and re-index the cylinder to the other type and it only takes a couple seconds. My preferred snake/trail guns are a) my old Ruger Service Six, loaded as indicated above with 2 shot shells and four jacketed hollow points, or my 4 5/8" Blackhawk in .45 Colt loaded the same way. |
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Why not this: http://bondarms.com/bond-arms-handguns/snake-slayer/ I mean the name says it all
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You really need a longer barrel and these work great Snake Charmer II. 
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| I did some asking about the pistol caliber shotshells not too long ago and pretty much echoed what I read here. The .22LR, .22WMR and basically the small ones, don't have much power and are pretty ineffective on snakes. From what I learned the shotshells for the .45 Colt and similar sizes are the most effective but must be used in a revolver since semi-autos won't cycle them. If you want to go the .410 revolver route I would recommend going with the S&W Governor instead of the Judge. The S&W Governor allows you to shoot .410, .45 Colt and .45acp while the Judge is only .410 and .45 Colt. Plus when I asked about the Judge at my LGS, my preferred sales guy recommended the Governor because the Taurus Judge was their single most returned gun (for quality issues) for the last three years running. That was a few years ago so they may be better but it's Taurus and they are always struggling. If it were me I'd probably do as someone else suggested and carry two or three shotshells and the rest hollowpoints or similar in one of my Ruger .45 Colt single action revolvers. |
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I carry a Ruger Speed Six (stainless steel) with a 2&3/4" barrel. I load my own snake shells for it. I've only killed a couple snakes but they are dead, dead, dead when that load of 7&1/2's hit them from 5 or 6 feet (both were copperheads).
I chose 7&1/2 because I wanted penetration and experience with 8's on squirrels and rabbits and grouse showed the 7&1/2 just way outpenetrate the 8's. If you reload, you can buy the shot capsules (Speer makes them) from Midway, or other reloading supply vendors. Oh, the Speed Six has the spur ground off the hammer so I can carry it in a pocket and pull it out without hanging/dragging. Been that way since the early 80's. Mostly carried when fishing and summertime groundhog hunting. |
| Been my experience any snake you see in time to draw and fire before he strikes isn't really a threat anyhow. By the time I can shoot one, I could have just as easily stepped back out of biting range. Around the home a plain old garden hoe is pretty deadly and lots cheaper to operate. |
| Most people don't carry a hoe around unless they are pimps of course lol. I don't advocate killing any snakes unless they are venomous and then only if they are hanging around where they may tag someone. If they have fangs and hang around the hacienda they have to be sent to venomous snake Valhalla. If they are nonvenomous, they are free to roam the place, outside the house of course. |
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Most people don't carry a hoe around unless they are pimps of course lol. I don't advocate killing any snakes unless they are venomous and then only if they are hanging around where they may tag someone. If they have fangs and hang around the hacienda they have to be sent to venomous snake Valhalla. If they are nonvenomous, they are free to roam the place, outside the house of course. We had an agreement of sorts back home. I stayed out of places where the rattle snakes hung out, unless I had to go there, and if I went there I went slow and gave them adequate time to fade away, and backed off and let them go if I saw them. In return, they stayed out of the yard or outbuildings, but if they violated those rules - i.e hung out where around the house, yard, hangar and outbuildings, or didn't retreat on their territory when given the chance they got dead. As noted, most people don't carry a shovel around and a pistol is a lot more convenient. ----- I walked in the side door of the hangar once and found about a dozen baby rattle snakes at me feet and very aggressive, as baby rattle snakes tend to be. Since I had my Jesus shoes, on it was a problem, and I had a busy minute of so with a shovel that did happen to be by the door. That was at the start of the great snake invasion after they started putting in the sub division. ---- As for alternative weapons, my dad was proudly showing (or maybe just showing off) how to kill a rattle snake with a lariat. Unfortunately the snake struck at the rope just as dad was whipping it back toward himself on the back stroke. The snake came with it and landed at his feet. Fortunately it was as surprised as dad was and he was able to hop back out of striking range. My take away from al that was don't get fancy, if you're gonna kill 'em, just shoot 'em. |
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The short barrels throw a better pattern. A 2 inch 38 Special is about right as a minimum. Check you revolver for the pattern so you know how far to shoot. 6 feet is about right. The short barrels do not throw a better pattern. That said anything with a rifled barrel is going to throw a bad pattern especially a pistol. The shorter the barrel the worst in both pattern quality and muzzle velocity. If I had to use a handgun for snake defense I think the Judge/Governor is likely the best revolver option. Those guns are really bad at a lot of things but this might be one place they shine. Snakes at close range with small shot sizes (#6-#8). The patterns open fast so they are not much good beyond a few yards. But at snake ranges just fine. But remember that 410 shot shells that normally do 1100-1200fps out of a 410 shotgun are only doing ~800fps out of a Judge/Governor. The next choice would be a large bore revolver 45 or 44 with shot shells. You give up shot weight and size for velocity. The 45 and 44 shotshell have a bit more than 5/16oz of fine (#9) shot (The 410 will do 1/2oz with 2.5 inch shells, 3/4oz with 3 inch shells) in them but they usually have better velocity 1000+ fps than 410 shotshells out of a Judge/Governor. Finally you could always just learn to aim and then a normal 22lr revolver or semi-auto works just fine. Or you can do as my brother did when he encountered one too close to his hunting cabin, just spray and pray. 20rds of 9mm from and XDm-9. He said he was surprised how fast he emptied that magazine. 
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We have killed rattlers with CCI 22 shot shells. They worked fine. We keep a model 18 S&W loaded for the purpose at the house. My wife likes it better than a 38.
When out in the desert in snake season I keep a snake shot as the first round up in whatever handgun I'm carrying. |
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Governor loaded with bird shot would do it.
Better than the Judge line, IMO. You can load 410, 45 acp (with moon clips) and 45 LC. Slugs, bird, buck. Don't count on it for optimal HD, but will take care of critters, for sure. Also, don't have the Taurus skeptical quality to be concerned over. |
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A 44 Special revolver works well.  Agree. Just carry a big bore, general purpose revolver, chambered for .44 special/mag, .45 Colt. First one or two chambers with snake shot, the last ones with a good SWC at moderate velocity. This should cover 99.9% of any reasonable outdoors needs. What in the world is a rattlesnake doing out in December? |
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The short barrels do not throw a better pattern. That said anything with a rifled barrel is going to throw a bad pattern especially a pistol. The shorter the barrel the worst in both pattern quality and muzzle velocity. If I had to use a handgun for snake defense I think the Judge/Governor is likely the best revolver option. Those guns are really bad at a lot of things but this might be one place they shine. Snakes at close range with small shot sizes (#6-#8). The patterns open fast so they are not much good beyond a few yards. But at snake ranges just fine. But remember that 410 shot shells that normally do 1100-1200fps out of a 410 shotgun are only doing ~800fps out of a Judge/Governor. The next choice would be a large bore revolver 45 or 44 with shot shells. You give up shot weight and size for velocity. The 45 and 44 shotshell have a bit more than 5/16oz of fine (#9) shot (The 410 will do 1/2oz with 2.5 inch shells, 3/4oz with 3 inch shells) in them but they usually have better velocity 1000+ fps than 410 shotshells out of a Judge/Governor. Finally you could always just learn to aim and then a normal 22lr revolver or semi-auto works just fine. Or you can do as my brother did when he encountered one too close to his hunting cabin, just spray and pray. 20rds of 9mm from and XDm-9. He said he was surprised how fast he emptied that magazine. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31815523/rattlesnake.jpg Quoted:
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The short barrels throw a better pattern. A 2 inch 38 Special is about right as a minimum. Check you revolver for the pattern so you know how far to shoot. 6 feet is about right. The short barrels do not throw a better pattern. That said anything with a rifled barrel is going to throw a bad pattern especially a pistol. The shorter the barrel the worst in both pattern quality and muzzle velocity. If I had to use a handgun for snake defense I think the Judge/Governor is likely the best revolver option. Those guns are really bad at a lot of things but this might be one place they shine. Snakes at close range with small shot sizes (#6-#8). The patterns open fast so they are not much good beyond a few yards. But at snake ranges just fine. But remember that 410 shot shells that normally do 1100-1200fps out of a 410 shotgun are only doing ~800fps out of a Judge/Governor. The next choice would be a large bore revolver 45 or 44 with shot shells. You give up shot weight and size for velocity. The 45 and 44 shotshell have a bit more than 5/16oz of fine (#9) shot (The 410 will do 1/2oz with 2.5 inch shells, 3/4oz with 3 inch shells) in them but they usually have better velocity 1000+ fps than 410 shotshells out of a Judge/Governor. Finally you could always just learn to aim and then a normal 22lr revolver or semi-auto works just fine. Or you can do as my brother did when he encountered one too close to his hunting cabin, just spray and pray. 20rds of 9mm from and XDm-9. He said he was surprised how fast he emptied that magazine. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31815523/rattlesnake.jpg Man - messed up a perfectly good belt, hat band, or work of art! Red 
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Man - messed up a perfectly good belt, hat band, or work of art! Red
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The short barrels throw a better pattern. A 2 inch 38 Special is about right as a minimum. Check you revolver for the pattern so you know how far to shoot. 6 feet is about right. The short barrels do not throw a better pattern. That said anything with a rifled barrel is going to throw a bad pattern especially a pistol. The shorter the barrel the worst in both pattern quality and muzzle velocity. If I had to use a handgun for snake defense I think the Judge/Governor is likely the best revolver option. Those guns are really bad at a lot of things but this might be one place they shine. Snakes at close range with small shot sizes (#6-#8). The patterns open fast so they are not much good beyond a few yards. But at snake ranges just fine. But remember that 410 shot shells that normally do 1100-1200fps out of a 410 shotgun are only doing ~800fps out of a Judge/Governor. The next choice would be a large bore revolver 45 or 44 with shot shells. You give up shot weight and size for velocity. The 45 and 44 shotshell have a bit more than 5/16oz of fine (#9) shot (The 410 will do 1/2oz with 2.5 inch shells, 3/4oz with 3 inch shells) in them but they usually have better velocity 1000+ fps than 410 shotshells out of a Judge/Governor. Finally you could always just learn to aim and then a normal 22lr revolver or semi-auto works just fine. Or you can do as my brother did when he encountered one too close to his hunting cabin, just spray and pray. 20rds of 9mm from and XDm-9. He said he was surprised how fast he emptied that magazine. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31815523/rattlesnake.jpg Man - messed up a perfectly good belt, hat band, or work of art! Red
My brother does not let poison snake live if he can help it. I still get shit for not shooting a Copperhead earlier this year. I don't feel a strong need to kill snakes poisonous or not. |
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I've killed several with .38 special snake loads. Given the amount of damage these rounds do to snakes, not sure you really need anything larger.
As for leaving them alone, that would certainly be my preference. However, if they around the house can't risk the dogs getting bit. |
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<a href="http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/G19Snake_zps00f6f375.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/G19Snake_zps00f6f375.jpg</a> Quoted:
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On 12/6/14 one struck at me, he was around 4 feet in length. He missed, my G19 worked well on him. <a href="http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/G19Snake_zps00f6f375.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/G19Snake_zps00f6f375.jpg</a> That kinda sorta looks like a Gopher snake from here but maybe it's just the photograph. |
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That kinda sorta looks like a Gopher snake from here but maybe it's just the photograph. Quoted:
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On 12/6/14 one struck at me, he was around 4 feet in length. He missed, my G19 worked well on him. <a href="http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/G19Snake_zps00f6f375.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/G19Snake_zps00f6f375.jpg</a> That kinda sorta looks like a Gopher snake from here but maybe it's just the photograph. I am afraid that I don't know what a gopher snake is. This one was a bull snake, and an aggressive one. For me personally it may as well have been a cobra, as I damn near had a heart attack... scared the piss out of me.. I just started cussing, walking backwards shooting. I'm sure a witness would describe the manly act more like " he started screaming like a little girl, dancing around, flinging shots everywhere. The snake probably died of laughter, rather than actually getting hit by a bullet from the nut case with the snake phobia." |