[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What's driving Python prices? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/16/2014 4:11:28 AM EDT
|
I don't want to beat a dead horse but I would like to hear some opinions and discussion on this.
As the title says, I've been thinking a lot about this lately. Pythons seem to be running away in price, and people keep buying them, which keeps driving the price higher. I know it's been mentioned before, and a lot of blame seems to get thrown towards Deputy Grimes and his Python's prime-time cable appearances, but I just don't know if I can buy that completely. Can a gun featured center stage in a popular movie or TV show really create its own market like that? My original MKIV Colt Combat Elite created a minor stir when Terminator 2 came out, but the prices never got that high. I've been racking my brain trying to think of another gun given so much attention that it sells itself, but I'm coming up short. Aside from the standard couch commandos who want a Desert Eagle for all it's different movie appearances; but even their prices haven't risen sky high. Will the Python bubble pop, or does their value keep increasing with every "Walker" Rick takes out with his? 
|
|
Gun Store Mythos, nostalgia of when Colt was a major player, artificial hyping by reviews in magazines, and the fact that they're not made anymore. I own a Python and enjoy it (way before the crazy) but it isn't the end all be all for me. It is a very delicate action and must be treated right. The Colt SF-VI is a better trigger in my opinion than a Python. Also the fact that a lot of foks that want Pythons couldn't afford them back then since they were poor college students. Same thing is hapening with muscle cars. Folks with time and money are now buying them because they can afford then unlike when they were younger and had less money. But that drives up prices. Hell, it is even happening with video game systems. SNK NeoGeo carts are $200+ today. And that was a 16 bit system from twenty years ago. But every gamer wants one because they can now afford it. I couldn't dish out the cash for one when I was a kid. |
|
internet chats
poor economy to invest cash in the fact they ask 4000 but are selling at 2500 makes buyers think they are getting a deal liberal laws that restrict mag push shooters to wheel guns. S&W safety hole has more haters than many think so there is no real quality alternative a new made 27 has the damn lock besides 17 is not the best to ompare to a python a tuned 686/586 is. |
| I was in the LGS and someone called asking if they had a Python. Something's up? When I was in the academy we had to buy our own revolvers. The instructors did everything they could to talk down the Python in favor of a S&W. The result was no one bought a Python because they thought it would explode. I suspect it was because of kickbacks from a LGS that supplied S&Ws. |
|
It pretty much that they simply stopped making them and they were at one time the premium revolver. The muscle car analogy is a good comparison, people want the classic iron versus the new plastic and mim stuff. Perceived better quality and craftsmanship.
I have a 4" from 1961 IIRC. It's good but i like the S&W trigger better. The python just stacks up weird before dropping. I was warned about the delicateness of the internal parts and the fact that smiths that can actually work on these competently are dwindling. Also Colt isn't supporting the parts for these anymore. They have some parts but they're not restocking. Barrels are one thing they're running out of last I looked around. |
|
Quoted: Ever hear about the S&W M29 after Clint Eastwood played with it? Quoted: Quoted: ... Can a gun featured center stage in a popular movie or TV show really create its own market like that? ... Ever hear about the S&W M29 after Clint Eastwood played with it? |
|
Quoted: The Walking Dead has popularized the Python and the fact that it's out of production helps boost the price. If Colt was smart they would reintroduce the Python to capitalize on the craze. The majority of buyers that I see wanting Pythons aren't guys in my age group (I'm 30). It's folks in my father's age group (50s-60s). I'm different because I grew up with wheel guns and guns in general since I was born. My father was and still is a collector and did thirty five years of police work. So my connection to Pyhtons, S*Ws, etc... are fueled because I grew up around them. Most shooters my age are Semi-Auto pistols and AR-15s buyers.
|
|
Quoted:
The question is will the craze stay or will it be a passing fad? Even though I hate the current wheel guns from S&W they did it right by never ceasing production of their guns. I think if Colt jumped back in the market it won't be the same for them. Most folks want a Colt Python because they couldn't have it in their younger days. I don't think a current production Python would sell very well. The majority of buyers that I see wanting Pythons aren't guys in my age group (I'm 30). It's folks in my father's age group (50s-60s). I'm different because I grew up with wheel guns and guns in general since I was born. My father was and still is a collector and did thirty five years of police work. So my connection to Pyhtons, S*Ws, etc... are fueled because I grew up around them. Most shooters my age are Semi-Auto pistols and AR-15s buyers. Quoted:
Quoted:
The Walking Dead has popularized the Python and the fact that it's out of production helps boost the price. If Colt was smart they would reintroduce the Python to capitalize on the craze. The majority of buyers that I see wanting Pythons aren't guys in my age group (I'm 30). It's folks in my father's age group (50s-60s). I'm different because I grew up with wheel guns and guns in general since I was born. My father was and still is a collector and did thirty five years of police work. So my connection to Pyhtons, S*Ws, etc... are fueled because I grew up around them. Most shooters my age are Semi-Auto pistols and AR-15s buyers. I think it would sell and I would buy for sure (im under 30) Colt should do atleast one run to see how it is. Id say 15k total made and have a few of each offering different length and there finish option) or one barrel length in two finish options. The reason I say 15K is that's I think the production number that Glock does for their G20 and that a niche gun. If it sells they can boost production if it doesn't sell it would still drop the price overall but im more inclined to believe it would sell. |
|
Quoted: I think it would sell and I would buy for sure (im under 30) Colt should do atleast one run to see how it is. Id say 15k total made and have a few of each offering different length and there finish option) or one barrel length in two finish options. The reason I say 15K is that's I think the production number that Glock does for their G20 and that a niche gun. If it sells they can boost production if it doesn't sell it would still drop the price overall but im more inclined to believe it would sell. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Walking Dead has popularized the Python and the fact that it's out of production helps boost the price. If Colt was smart they would reintroduce the Python to capitalize on the craze. The majority of buyers that I see wanting Pythons aren't guys in my age group (I'm 30). It's folks in my father's age group (50s-60s). I'm different because I grew up with wheel guns and guns in general since I was born. My father was and still is a collector and did thirty five years of police work. So my connection to Pyhtons, S*Ws, etc... are fueled because I grew up around them. Most shooters my age are Semi-Auto pistols and AR-15s buyers. I think it would sell and I would buy for sure (im under 30) Colt should do atleast one run to see how it is. Id say 15k total made and have a few of each offering different length and there finish option) or one barrel length in two finish options. The reason I say 15K is that's I think the production number that Glock does for their G20 and that a niche gun. If it sells they can boost production if it doesn't sell it would still drop the price overall but im more inclined to believe it would sell. |
|
Quoted:
If they're going to do that... they have a better chance jumping into the CCW Revolver market. Bring out the SF-VI and Magnum Carry again. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Walking Dead has popularized the Python and the fact that it's out of production helps boost the price. If Colt was smart they would reintroduce the Python to capitalize on the craze. The majority of buyers that I see wanting Pythons aren't guys in my age group (I'm 30). It's folks in my father's age group (50s-60s). I'm different because I grew up with wheel guns and guns in general since I was born. My father was and still is a collector and did thirty five years of police work. So my connection to Pyhtons, S*Ws, etc... are fueled because I grew up around them. Most shooters my age are Semi-Auto pistols and AR-15s buyers. I think it would sell and I would buy for sure (im under 30) Colt should do atleast one run to see how it is. Id say 15k total made and have a few of each offering different length and there finish option) or one barrel length in two finish options. The reason I say 15K is that's I think the production number that Glock does for their G20 and that a niche gun. If it sells they can boost production if it doesn't sell it would still drop the price overall but im more inclined to believe it would sell. I wouldn't be apposed to that either point is there is a market for colt revolvers. If they don't try they will never know and that's their fault. Nowadays Colt is an old owner at an LGS sticking to one thing and never adventuring out. I cant say that about that with Ruger or S&W |
| Same subject, but have you priced a pre-lock 3" 19, 66 or 686? You'll see that it isn't just the Colt name or nostalgia. S&W didn't make many of those 3" guns and isn't making any more (that don't have the lock) so the prices are through the roof. And there again, you have something that's cooler than a 4" or 6" piece just like people generally think the Python looks cooler than the Smith. |
| I purchased 3 Pythons in excellent condition with boxes back in the late 90s and early 2000s. One was a Python Elite which I paid a whopping $650 and that was the most expensive one I owned. I sold them all because I couldn't get used to the trigger. Kind of wish I still have them just to sell at today's prices. |
|
Quoted:
A 15K run, with union labor? I doubt they would even tool up for less than a few 100K! I don't think so bro!! IF they would do it, it would be $10,000! OK make 100K but by your logic the reintroduced Delta Elite would've cost $4k which they didn't and all of their 1911 way beyond. Remember they still have the old tooling they didn't get rid of anything |
|
Question for those with knowledge.
I have a S+W model 27 50th anniv of the original .357 mag. Gold inlaid. Beautiful firearm. Rcvd as a gift. Unfired, until I got it. (I refuse to have a safe queen, and told my dad and his wife who gave it to me, do not gift it to me, unless you don't mind me shooting, no safe queens here.) It has about 100 rds through it. And clue on the value of this thing. (No, not to sell, sold an SKS once, and learned never to sell  )
Thanks TXL |
|
I don't think it has much to do with that zombie of a television show. I can remember in the late 90s when Pythons shot up to $800 overnight. Our economy was much more intact, and our dollar went much further. I wonder if the prices of pre-lock S&Ws help to drive up the Python prices. "If an S&W costs that much, then the Python is worth..." I saw a CS1 sell on Gunbroker fairly recently for $1600. Now shift your gaze back to the Python...you see where this is going. I don't think there's a chance in hell they can make a Python nowadays. The skilled labor and knowledgebase needed to make a true Python are either retired or dead by now. Making it with modern methods will surely cause a lot of pissin' and moanin' and we'll have a huge purse-swinging thread for sure!
|
| I think one of the reasons Colt doesn't make another run of Pythons is that deep down they know they no longer have the manpower to produce the wonderful hand fitted action of the earlier Pythons. Putting out a lesser quality Python would indeed damage the brand. That's why it won't happen. |
|
Quoted:
internet chats poor economy to invest cash in the fact they ask 4000 but are selling at 2500 makes buyers think they are getting a deal liberal laws that restrict mag push shooters to wheel guns. S&W safety hole has more haters than many think so there is no real quality alternative a new made 27 has the damn lock besides 17 is not the best to ompare to a python a tuned 686/586 is. I sold a 8 inch stainless colt python had the reserve set at $2100 and it sold for $5200 don't ask me why but there where like six bidders in the $4000 range and still two bidders when it hit $5000 mark. I would love to get a well used python for a $1000-1400 to shoot the shit out of but hardly ever see them. I also think that the walking dead is playing a part in the popularity of the gun. I do agree that they are nice but I can take a Ruger GP100 and send it to a smith and have as smooth of gun for less than a grand. You also have to look at the aspect of there is a finite amount of Colt Pythons out there a lot like class 3 guns they are not going to be making any more any time soon. |
|
Quoted:
I purchased my first Python in 1982. Nickel w/4"bbl cost me $470. Quoted:
Quoted:
Does anybody know what they sold for new, back in the day? I purchased my first Python in 1982. Nickel w/4"bbl cost me $470. Last prices they were selling for in 2003 or 2004 was like $1300 |
|
Quoted:
I think one of the reasons Colt doesn't make another run of Pythons is that deep down they know they no longer have the manpower to produce the wonderful hand fitted action of the earlier Pythons. Putting out a lesser quality Python would indeed damage the brand. That's why it won't happen. They do have the manpower and industrial capacity. But not enough manpower. But you are right. Purists would bitch that it isn't a "real" python or some bullshit regardless if it is a hand built carbon copy, or a modernized CNC gun, and tarnish the brand. There are a lot of pythons out there. I don't think they need to make any more as long as they will still perform service on them. |
|
I'll pretty much concur with the opinion that the model 27 S&W, especially older ones, are just as good if not better than Pythons. I picked up a mint 6 inch 27-2 last week with a set of Nills for 700$, an utterly breathtaking gun.
Retards are paying 4k for a Python? Yeah, I'd rather have a Manurhin, Korth or Mateba for that money... |
|
Quoted:
Ever hear about the S&W M29 after Clint Eastwood played with it? Quoted:
Quoted:
... Can a gun featured center stage in a popular movie or TV show really create its own market like that? ... Ever hear about the S&W M29 after Clint Eastwood played with it? Bend, I thought of that after I posted this. Aside from the Python, the Desert Eagle, and maybe a few others, the 29 would definitely be at the very top of any recognizable movie gun. Although they have a niche customer base, I think the 44mag has dropped in popularity, especially over the wide array of 38/357s out there. For everyone else: Great discussion. I'm glad this kicked off some good points. As others have pointed out, I don't think we'll ever see the Python again. If they ever did bring it back, ala the S&W "Classic" series guns, I would definietely buy one, because it's the only way I'll ever get one. Until then, I take out my 19-3 every once in a while and feel that SA trigger break like a glass rod and feel ok that I'm not part of the snake club 
|
| Reading your post it sounds like you have never handled and fired a Colt Python before. I had one back in the mid 1980's that I wish I had kept. I always thought I could save the money and buy one later. I never thought Colt would ever discontinue the line since they were the finest pistols Colt ever produced. The best Pythons had a buttery smooth double action trigger pull that were unmatched in any other revolver I have ever handled. The reason the price goes up has nothing to do with TV or movies. The fact that Colt hasn't made one in years is the real reason it keeps it goes up in value. The same reason that machineguns keep going up. New manufacture was banned in 1986 and M16s were $1,200.00 back then and now are almost $20,000.00. They don't make them anymore. Try and find a better U.S. made production revolver. The only revolver that I have heard that may match it is the German made Korth. But, I've never handled one, so, I don't know if the Korth is as good. |
| Reading your post it sounds like you have never handled and fired a Colt Python before. I had one back in the mid 1980's that I wish I had kept. I always thought I could save the money and buy one later. I never thought Colt would ever discontinue the line since they were the finest pistols Colt ever produced. The best Pythons had a buttery smooth double action trigger pull that were unmatched in any other revolver I have ever handled. The reason the price goes up has nothing to do with TV or movies. The fact that Colt hasn't made one in years is the real reason it keeps it goes up in value. The same reason that machineguns keep going up. New manufacture was banned in 1986 and M16s were $1,200.00 back then and now are almost $20,000.00. They don't make them anymore. Try and find a better U.S. made production revolver. The only revolver that I have heard that may match it is the German made Korth. But, I've never handled one, so, I don't know if the Korth is as good. |
|
Demand.
Colt had been out of the revolver game for awhile. Colt made some of the finest revolvers ever produced Python is one example , add Diamondbacks , King Cobras. I am lucky enough to own examples from both Smith and Colt. The Colt logo has been associated with quality and fine firearms for a very long time. Collectors and shooters alike have sought for examples for their collections. There is a reason You will always have people question why ? Chances are if you have to ask you really don't understand . And you will always have people that say , "well I can buy the ...( insert cheap import "modern" production ) for $1000 less money - it has a trigger a barrel and slings the same projectile down range ...why pay more !!!" That is ok too |
| My infatuation with the Python started with a 4" nickel on the cover of a gun rag back in the mid 70's. I had a couple in the 80's and 90's. In my mind no other handgun comes as close to "a work of art" as the Python does. About 10-12 years ago I decided to get back into them and build a collection of each of the 4 barrel lengths in blue and nickel. I don't think I paid over $1200 for any of them. None were "new in the box" but all very nice. A few years back I thought about adding the stainless guns to the collection. I hadn't looked at Python prices for a couple years by then. I was shocked at what I saw on Gunbroker. I remember saying to myself, "$2,000 for a 4" matte stainless Python! Nobody will pay that!" Wrong. That would be a fire sale bargain today from what I see. Prices for other Colt "snake guns" are getting crazy as well. I'll pass on adding those stainless guns, that's for sure. |
|
Quoted:
The Walking Dead has popularized the Python and the fact that it's out of production helps boost the price. If Colt was smart they would reintroduce the Python to capitalize on the craze. |
|
Yeah, I've shot a Diamondback 22. I've owned it for a long time. It's sort of like a mini Python. The Trooper MkIII 357 was one hell of a good gun too.
Back in the mid '70's a new model 29-2 cost $500, if you could find one. At least that was the going rate and it's what I paid for my first one in 1977, (6&1/2" nickel). I hadn't seen any Dirty Harry movies yet, only ads for the movie and gun in magazines. Around the same time, 1976, I paid $400 for a used but mint 57 (8&3/8" nickel) and $375 for a new 27-2 (5" blue). I also remember a used mint condition 44 Auto-Mag selling for $500 in 1978. Can't remember the price of a new Python back then as I hardly ever saw them for sale. These prices were in the Los Angeles area. |
|
As to the original question, the factor that is driving prices on these guns is the fact that "they ain't makin' em any more" and
people w/ too much money buying guns they aren't going to shoot thinking they are going to cash in later. It's the same mentality as the Barret- Jackson auctions and other venues for "collectables" |
|
INV136 wrote:
...The only revolver that I have heard that may match it is the German made Korth. But, I've never handled one, so, I don't know if the Korth is as good. Korth had their revolvers made in the old shop in Ratzeburg, Germany and had to close in 2008. There just were not enough people willing to spend $6,000 on a new handmade revolver. They have re-opened in Lollar and are using more modern CNC machining, since the price has not dropped their margin probably has improved. I have a Python, a Colt OMM, a dozen S&W revolvers and seven Korths. Even among the Korths I have my clear favourites but the finish and durability is amazing, so is the double action on the bearing from the 24/series on. Neither my Korths, nor the Python or OMM can do much better in olympic pistol than my old S&W M14-2. |
|
Quoted:
Korth had their revolvers made in the old shop in Ratzeburg, Germany and had to close in 2008. There just were not enough people willing to spend $6,000 on a new handmade revolver. They have re-opened in Lollar and are using more modern CNC machining, since the price has not dropped their margin probably has improved. I have a Python, a Colt OMM, a dozen S&W revolvers and seven Korths. Even among the Korths I have my clear favorites but the finish and durability is amazing, so is the double action on the bearing from the 24/series on. Neither my Korths, nor the Python or OMM can do much better in olympic pistol than my old S&W M14-2. Quoted:
INV136 wrote:
...The only revolver that I have heard that may match it is the German made Korth. But, I've never handled one, so, I don't know if the Korth is as good. Korth had their revolvers made in the old shop in Ratzeburg, Germany and had to close in 2008. There just were not enough people willing to spend $6,000 on a new handmade revolver. They have re-opened in Lollar and are using more modern CNC machining, since the price has not dropped their margin probably has improved. I have a Python, a Colt OMM, a dozen S&W revolvers and seven Korths. Even among the Korths I have my clear favorites but the finish and durability is amazing, so is the double action on the bearing from the 24/series on. Neither my Korths, nor the Python or OMM can do much better in olympic pistol than my old S&W M14-2. YOU HAVE MY ATTENTION PLEASE CONTINUE do you shoot free pistol, rapid fire ? bullseye?-- (I gots'ta know) this is not sarcasm. |
|
Quoted: Korth had their revolvers made in the old shop in Ratzeburg, Germany and had to close in 2008. There just were not enough people willing to spend $6,000 on a new handmade revolver. They have re-opened in Lollar and are using more modern CNC machining, since the price has not dropped their margin probably has improved. I have a Python, a Colt OMM, a dozen S&W revolvers and seven Korths. Even among the Korths I have my clear favourites but the finish and durability is amazing, so is the double action on the bearing from the 24/series on. Neither my Korths, nor the Python or OMM can do much better in olympic pistol than my old S&W M14-2. Quoted: INV136 wrote: ...The only revolver that I have heard that may match it is the German made Korth. But, I've never handled one, so, I don't know if the Korth is as good. Korth had their revolvers made in the old shop in Ratzeburg, Germany and had to close in 2008. There just were not enough people willing to spend $6,000 on a new handmade revolver. They have re-opened in Lollar and are using more modern CNC machining, since the price has not dropped their margin probably has improved. I have a Python, a Colt OMM, a dozen S&W revolvers and seven Korths. Even among the Korths I have my clear favourites but the finish and durability is amazing, so is the double action on the bearing from the 24/series on. Neither my Korths, nor the Python or OMM can do much better in olympic pistol than my old S&W M14-2. |
|
Quoted:
A 15K run, with union labor? I doubt they would even tool up for less than a few 100K! I don't think so bro!! IF they would do it, it would be $10,000! In looking at the Colt proofhouse serial number table, Python production from 1955 to 1978 was around 300,000. Assuming no gaps in the serial number sequence (a big assumption). Roughly 13,000 a year. |
|
2 of the all time best 357 revolvers will always be the S&W 66 and the Python.
the 66 was the pinnacle of a revolver that you could carry comfortably around everywhere and load it hot when going into the woods. Long before people shot 50 rounds into a 12 inch circle and saying great combat accurracy - people were shooting little groups in half dollar circles and the super smooth action of a python made this ever so easy to do. the 686 and gp100 are great first guns/only guns but they are heavy and over built for what most shooters will be doing with them - shooting 38's at cans the schofields are a grand because of manufacturing and limited options/competition but they are not great or smooth - check out a cimmaron evil roy for a nice smooth action on a factory gun. the lemats are a grand but due to manufacturing costs and limited production yet when you shoot it the loading gate will most likely flop around. so if you want these you'll pay and not really be getting your moneys worth. your paying for the scarcity but not the craftsmanship. but you buy a les baer, ed brown or colt python you are getting your moneys worth. everything about the gun / shooting industry is overpriced. why are there so many austrailians in Las Vegas - there dollar is strong ours is becoming worthless - Pythons are a universal currency. |
I have competed in ISSF rimfire and centerfire pistol for years, with a Hämmerli 208, a Walther GSP and the S&W M14-2. I am mostly shooting for leisure since a few years. I also competed in military matches with issued weapons and was usually ( but not always ) among the ten best in my state with rifle and pistol.
The Korths are something I am intrigued with. They shoot pretty well. 
...and the two ugly ducklings 
|
|
Quoted: I have competed in ISSF rimfire and centerfire pistol for years, with a Hämmerli 208, a Walther GSP and the S&W M14-2. I am mostly shooting for leisure since a few years. I also competed in military matches with issued weapons and was usually ( but not always ) among the ten best in my state with rifle and pistol.The Korths are something I am intrigued with. They shoot pretty well. http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/imagejpg4_zps3bab003b.jpg http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/imagejpg1_zpsbb6f146c.jpg ...and the two ugly ducklings http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/imagejpg1_zps1ba75e3b.jpg  |
|
Thanks Miami,
I take that as a compliment! What 's driving Python and Korth prices? Guys like me that are ready to spend an unreciprocal amount for a little bit of high end. After giving my SIG P210-4 to my oldest son, I have a P210-6 inbound. I expect a 5% higher score, at least  ...
|
|
Quoted:
Thanks Miami, I take that as a compliment! What 's driving Python and Korth prices? Guys like me that are ready to spend an unreciprocal amount for a little bit of high end. After giving my SIG P210-4 to my oldest son, I have a P210-6 inbound. I expect a 5% higher score, at least ...So it's you! Knock it off man
|
|
Quoted:
I don't think it has much to do with that zombie of a television show. I can remember in the late 90s when Pythons shot up to $800 overnight. Our economy was much more intact, and our dollar went much further. I wonder if the prices of pre-lock S&Ws help to drive up the Python prices. "If an S&W costs that much, then the Python is worth..." I saw a CS1 sell on Gunbroker fairly recently for $1600. Now shift your gaze back to the Python...you see where this is going. I don't think there's a chance in hell they can make a Python nowadays. The skilled labor and knowledgebase needed to make a true Python are either retired or dead by now. Making it with modern methods will surely cause a lot of pissin' and moanin' and we'll have a huge purse-swinging thread for sure! For sure it would be Fudds against the Kids. 
I was in my prime back when the Python and its siblings were still products of Old World craftsmanship. Pythons were extremely beautiful in lines and bluing. But their internal design sucked bad. It was delicate compared to a S&W. Keeping the timing on the mark was a PITA. A lesser skilled smith could work on a S&W while the Colt took a special touch combined with intimate knowledge of its design. The flat springs sucked even worse which made "tuning" a Colt trigger pull a work of art. Colts were very unpopular with the competition crowd and that's putting it nicely. The Colts could not come close to S&W for staying reliable, not even close! Then there was the price difference between S&W and Colt. And Pythons were not perfect from the box either. I know a guy who proudly came to the range with his brand new 4" Python and it was out of time, so back to the factory. He traded it when he got it back.
You could use the analogy of women when comparing Colt/Pythons to S&W. On a scale of 1-10 the Python was a 10 in the looks dept but no other redeeming qualities. Kind of like a gorgeous woman who is high maintenance plus has a bunch of irritable baggage you can't get rid of. While the S&W was a 9 and low maintenance with a few minor issues that could be easily overlooked.. |