Posted: 3/29/2013 12:54:19 PM EDT
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Hello,
So I've got one HK right now, a 45c and it's a DA/SA and I shoot it just fine. I've seen all the praise for the LEM variants here and on other sites, and so I went to my LGS to rent an LEM and try it out. It was a P2000 9mm and what I noticed was that when the trigger reset, there was still a bit of takeup before the round fired again. I dont know if that is how the LEM is or if it's just been shot so many times as a rental that it's not as "tight" anymore? The reset was a little long, but I could totally get used to it with practice. It was really accurate though! My background is mostly with Glocks and I am very used to the triggers and like them. Mostly like the pronounced trigger reset and when it's reset, there is no pre-travel(?) after it resets. It feels nice and locked up after the reset happens. With the different spring weights of LEM, is it possible to get closer to the Glock feel or is LEM an entirely different animal? I have my eye on a P2000SK and the LGS has it in LEM and DA/SA. Sorry if my terminology on triggers is incorrect or confusing. |
| I may be able to answer your question. Ive got a p30 LEM that I've made into v1. The trigger has a long take up, crisp 4.5lb break, and after reset another quarter inch before the trigger breaks again. Kind of frustrating coming from Glocks/M&P's. I still haven't got used to it yet but its harder for me to shoot faster on my P30 than almost any other trigger. |
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Your 45C can be converted to LEM easily.
9mm/40 HKs you have to buy as LEM. Technically you can convert to LEM but the problem is you are left with the decocker hole or a nonfunctional decocker so it is not advisable HK45 series has shorter reset than 9mm/40 series. My HK45CT is LEM and the trigger is nice and the reset is pretty short. There is slack on the reset but not much. Trigger flexes though. You can mix and match weights to get a 6 pound trigger pull like a Glock. It's going to feel a little bit different though since it is hammer fired. |
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I converted my V3 decocker P30 to V1 LEM and the "hole " problem is way over blown.
You can't even tell unless you really look at it and the 1/16" extra gap hasn't been a problem even here in dusty/sandy AZ. I got a LEM V2 P2000SK, converted to V1 and love it. The reset on the P2000 series LEM is longer than the P30. I don't know why. |
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Quoted:
I may be able to answer your question. Ive got a p30 LEM that I've made into v1. The trigger has a long take up, crisp 4.5lb break, and after reset another quarter inch before the trigger breaks again. Kind of frustrating coming from Glocks/M&P's. I still haven't got used to it yet but its harder for me to shoot faster on my P30 than almost any other trigger. Ok so sounds like it's kinda normal to have some travel after the reset, it wasn't due to the rental I tried being shot probably eleventy billion times. Sounds like I may go DA/SA then! |
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I started with DA/SA since it's what I shot for + twenty years.
Day one I was faster and more accurate with my P2000SK V1 LEM . Ordered the parts to convert my DA/SA P30 to LEM that day and won't be converting back. Trigger reset on the P2000SK is longer than the P30. Next up, I need a HK45 or 45C LEM to complete the trifecta. |
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Quoted:
I started with DA/SA since it's what I shot for + twenty years. Day one I was faster and more accurate with my P2000SK V1 LEM . Ordered the parts to convert my DA/SA P30 to LEM that day and won't be converting back. Trigger reset on the P2000SK is longer than the P30. Next up, I need a HK45 or 45C LEM to complete the trifecta. BulletBait can I ask what made the difference for you to be faster and more accurate with LEM? Is the trigger smoother? The pull more consistent. Thanks for all the input everyone. |
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It is definitely the consistent, lighter pull.
I just couldn't get the da/sa heavy/light spread to tighten up very well. Concentrating on it helped a lot, but slowed me down considerably. I should also note that I train for the most common civilian defensive shooting scenarios, not military or competition type engagements with lots of BGs. This means, two shots each in 1 to 3 BGs, re-holster and then repeat. So I'm shooting 4 shots on average and lots of presentation practice. Since the LEM only changes the trigger mechanism's engagement points and spring weights, the smoothness ( sponginess really) doesn't change. It feels like a military two-stage trigger with an extra long initial take up to me, so it's also familiar that way. Finally, the LEM's exposed hammer is the best I've used for safely doing all that holster work without looking at the holster. All I have to do is get the muzzle into the holster, then push the pistol the rest of the way in using my thumb only on the hammer. If the trigger was to snag on anything, the hammer would try to move back. This physically stops the re-holstering movement cold and gives a very positive tactile feedback telling you something's blocking the pistol. |
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Quoted:
It is definitely the consistent, lighter pull. I just couldn't get the da/sa heavy/light spread to tighten up very well. Concentrating on it helped a lot, but slowed me down considerably. I should also note that I train for the most common civilian defensive shooting scenarios, not military or competition type engagements with lots of BGs. This means, two shots each in 1 to 3 BGs, re-holster and then repeat. So I'm shooting 4 shots on average and lots of presentation practice. Since the LEM only changes the trigger mechanism's engagement points and spring weights, the smoothness ( sponginess really) doesn't change. It feels like a military two-stage trigger with an extra long initial take up to me, so it's also familiar that way. Finally, the LEM's exposed hammer is the best I've used for safely doing all that holster work without looking at the holster. All I have to do is get the muzzle into the holster, then push the pistol the rest of the way in using my thumb only on the hammer. If the trigger was to snag on anything, the hammer would try to move back. This physically stops the re-holstering movement cold and gives a very positive tactile feedback telling you something's blocking the pistol. I like this about hammers. The reholstering thing. It makes me feel so much more comfortable with it. I don't really understand how the LEM works. It has a hammer but then the website talked about pre cocking. Is it pre cocking the hammer? I'm lost about how it works. Maybe I should read the thing again. Or is it just confusing???? I've never fondled one, so...... I've been trying to wrap my head around what pistol for CCW. I like the weight of polymer pistols, but I like an exposed hammer to feel while holstering. Especially in the decocked position. And if my estimation is correct, sig and cz are the only choices out there with an exposed hammer and polymer frame. I think. Anyways... if any of you feel like enlightening me on how this LEM thing works. I'm all ears. My current carry handgun is a DA revolver. But it's not an easy thing to master that heavy trigger and I don't shoot it as well as pistols. Hence, me wanting to find something else. |
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The LEM works by having the hammer split into two halves.
It looks somewhat like two very thick, interlocking washers or 3-D puzzle pieces on one pin. The mini piece, that you can't see outside the gun,has the sear notch and takes the heavy hammer spring stress. The big piece, with the external hammer, is attached to the trigger bar. The trigger spring and firing pin blocking spring are the only two things resisting the trigger as you take out the slack. So the trigger pull weight increases in three stages. First long, with just the trigger spring, then increasing as the firing pin block is disengaged, lastly,increasing to full weight as the sear is tripped. The internal hammer that takes the hammer spring weight is on the lower left. Two different weight hammer springs upper left Two different weight trigger springs upper right External Hammer control spring ( to keep it from flopping around when the sear hammer is cocked and the trigger bar disengaged) is the super thin one Square piece is the sear. On V3 decockers, the decock lever is part of the sear, and you directly disengage it to decock. This is why if you convert from V3 to LEM you can keep the decocker. 
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I think I'm getting it. I saw a youtube video that explained it pretty well. But basically cocking it takes up much of the heavy hammer spring off of the trigger pull. Until the end it seems.
Very interesting. But I have to say, this whole deal his German written all over it. V1,2,3,4,5 DAO, DA/SA, it's enough to make your headspin. Reminds me how about 6-7 years back BMW put all this stuff in a 5 series that you need a PHD just to start the car practically. Maybe it's not all that, but it's definitely more complicated than most systems. Although I see that most of the "V"s are just different spring weights. Well, some of them. Eh? |
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Pretty much. Most of the V's sold in the US are just different springs.
Light and heavy for all three springs. My P2000SK was a V2 (LEM with a 8lb pull IIRC) swapping in the light trigger and hammer spring while keeping original light FPB spring made it a V1 with a 4.5lb pull, which isn't for sale to civilians in the USA The LEM trigger weight is only at maximum at the sear disengagement SA style, the rest is light 2 something lb take up on the V1. The P series has a total combination of 8 different trigger pull weights with factory approved parts and 16 combinations if you swap in the "middle weight" trigger spring from the USP. HK makes three different frames , LEM, decocker and frame safety. Because the LEM parts fit and work in a decocker or thumb safety frame, you can build a LEM with or without a decocker or frame safety. That means there are total of 5 different control/firing mechanism combinations, 3 factory and 2 home assembled, on top of the 16 possible trigger weights That's 80 different combinations in 3 calibers for 270 variations of the same pistol system. The good news is you can't say you can't find exactly what you're looking for or build it yourself. 
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My head is exploding.
It's good to have options but..... dang. But, I wanna shoot one. I went to my local gunstore today and they didn't have anything. Actually, I take that back. They had a P30L sitting there. But it was kind of busy, so I didn't fondle it. Maybe I'll go in when it's not. Which is barely ever now a days. |
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It's fairly straight forward JJREA.
If you like DA revolvers, get the LEM in the pistol size you prefer. If you find the trigger is too light or heavy, or if only part of the trigger stoke isn't to your liking, you replace the the appropriate spring(s) Most prefer the very light 4.5lb pull Some put a mix of light and heavy springs to get an intermediate 5.5lb to 7lb pull depending on taste. Others keep the factory set up with all heavy springs for a 8lb pull. |
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Quoted:
It's fairly straight forward JJREA. If you like DA revolvers, get the LEM in the pistol size you prefer. If you find the trigger is too light or heavy, or if only part of the trigger stoke isn't to your liking, you replace the the appropriate spring(s) Most prefer the very light 4.5lb pull Some put a mix of light and heavy springs to get an intermediate 5.5lb to 7lb pull depending on taste. Others keep the factory set up with all heavy springs for a 8lb pull. So which number version is the "factory set up of 8lb's"??? It is starting to make sense. Except for those anomolies of which on is DA/SA or DAO and what happens to the safety lever if you do or don't do the LEM. Obviously you don't really need a decocker if you'e doing an LEM, eh? |
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For legal reasons ( fear of lawsuits by HK's legal dept ) Only the V2 LEM with 8lb trigger is available to civilians in the US.
The V1 LEM with the 4.5lb trigger is available only to US Gov and local police by special order. However, HK will still honor the warranty if you swap in other springs. I ordered my V2 P2000SK through Cross Creek Guns and had it shipped to my local gun store. They have a great reputation and are good people. However, it looks like they are out of everything right now. |
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I'm not completely sure I would hate the 8lber. I would have to see it. It would be more like DAO imho, though.
Right now my carry revolver has a pretty heavy pull. Which is kind of what I'm trying to get rid of to some degree, but I feel it adds a level of safety when holstering. But exposed hammer helps my mind with this probably moreso than the heavy pull. |
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Quoted:
For legal reasons ( fear of lawsuits by HK's legal dept ) Only the V2 LEM with 8lb trigger is available to civilians in the US. The V1 LEM with the 4.5lb trigger is available only to US Gov and local police by special order. However, HK will still honor the warranty if you swap in other springs. I ordered my V2 P2000SK through Cross Creek Guns and had it shipped to my local gun store. They have a great reputation and are good people. However, it looks like they are out of everything right now. Completely untrue...says my factory v1 p2000 and p30. Like a lot of things HK doesn't tell their dealers they can't sell to non LEO/GOV, but they make that suggestion. It's up to the individual dealers if they want to sell to civi's or not. Want to order one? Buds will sell you v1 LEM no questions asked if they get any in stock here. Same thing with Carter Country and Cabela's, they move the v1's. |
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Gratzi dyezak, Now I know where to shop for a HK45C  lol goodluck. Buds never has HKs in stock or really anyone gun you want for that matter. But yeah, I never heard that "light LEM is only for LEO/MIL" either. I'm pretty sure HK will convert it to whatever you want |
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