Posted: 5/6/2008 1:59:02 PM EDT
| I'm looking at Federal Ammo Hydro-Shok for my Glock 19 (9mm). They have 3 types I believe. Grains 124, 135 & 147 - I don't know much about grains, what are the differences? |
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Grain is a measurement of weight. 1gr=1/7000lb So 124gr=124/7000lb, 135=135/7000lb, 147=147/7000lb So the lighter bullets tend to travel at a faster speed and the slower bullets tend to travelat a slower speed. Along with the weight, generally comes better penetration. ETA: Just my opinion. I would recommend looking at a different type of ammunition. Not there's anything necessarly wrong with Fed HS, they are just older technology. There is better ammo on the market. I personally use Speer Gold Dots in my pistols. |
Winchester has a neat comparison tool on their site for their Ranger T ammo. KE for the 124grn = 383.30 ft-lbs KE for the 147grn = 319.84 ft-lbs Based on those numbers, I'd pick the 124grn, but its going to have more recoil. |
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Generally, a heavier weight bullet will penetrate deeper than the lighter weight in the same caliber because it has more momentum. The expansion is usually the same or very close to it in bullets of the same caliber of the same design, regardless of weight, so I would generally recommend to go with the heavier bullets. |
Grains are a weight measurement. They could be used to measure anything. In this case it's talking about the weight of the projectile ; i.g. the bullet. If you spend any time around the ammo or reloading forums you will also here grains used to describe the weight of the power charge in the case. There are 7000 grains in one pound. Hydra's would not be my first choice, but are OK if that's all you have available. There are many Law Enforcement "only" rounds that are available to us poor common folk. There is a FAQ here www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=237 w/ a number of ammo recommendations for personal defence. Ammo selection can become a very personal choice for some, and is a topic of much debate. Not liking someones particular "pet" load is akin to dissing their girlfriend/spouse. IMNSHO, if you pick a load from the list, or even the hydras, and you do your part the bullet will do it's part. FB |
So let's get this straight... The picture you post shows that 147gr outperforms 124gr by a large margin, with 124gr BARELY meeting FBI minimums. Yet you pick 124gr? Why not go with 357 Sig if you want energy? Oh wait, that performs even worse? 
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I'm interested in how you conclude that 147grn out performs the 124grn by a large margin. For penetration, 12" min is the magic number and beyond 15" is over-penetration. They all hit that. As long as the numbers are between 12" and 15", I consider them to be equal. Retained weight isnt all that important, as long as the loss is retained within the target. We just had a multi-page discussion on KE. Whether it has any effect on wounding is debatable; however, I dont believe I've ever encountered any research that says greater KE causes LESS wounding. My opinion is based on expansion. The 124grn expands slightly more than the 147grn in all the categories presented, except wallboard, steel, and auto glass, with the last two best served with a different bullet type. Fast and light, slow and heavy, they both work, but with the data for the Ranger, I dont see a clear advantage for the 147grn, like you do. |
You're willing to trade nearly 2" of penetration in some cases for .01-.04" of expansion? Keep in mind that 147 performs the same in nearly all mediums, while 124 performance varies quite a bit more. 12" is a minimum number.
www.lesjones.com/posts/003216.shtml |
Look at the results for the 230 gr .45: 11.5 inches penetration in bare gel, and yet it's one of the most popular rounds out there. I'd guess most criminals wear some level of clothing on their upper torso, so the average performance of most rounds will be somewhere in between bare gel and heavy denim. I'd prefer the 147 gr, myself (and when I carried a 9mm, it was loaded with 147 gr HST) but it is not light years ahead of the 124 gr. Give the guy a break. |
This is an excellent point, that cant be denied.
I know you carry a CZ, Stoegar Cougar, and 1911. The days you choose the 1911, you are selecting expansion/size over penetration. 12" is adequate penetration. The ammunition failure during the Miami shootout was due to bullet design, not penetration. .01-.04" of additional expansion IS important to wounding. The larger the projectile, the greater the potential of wounding.
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230gr +P Rangers or HSTs FTW  The standard pressure 230grs are in the 12" range (or less  ), yeah.My next question: Why not carry .45 230gr +P given that it penetrates to at least the same depth and expands .05-.15" more than 9mm 124gr? |
For what in your opinion, is 12" of penetration enough for? Are you talking a face to face gun battle at close range, with no barriers, no body armor and no layers of heavy clothing? What happens to your "adequate" penetration if you add in one of the things mentioned above? And before you bring up the bugaboo of over penetration and wounding non combatants, in the average civilian gun fight 80% of all shots fired miss completely. Personally, I'm far worried about what's behind my target than I am about over penetration. |
I love these discussions! It really gets ya thinkin'.  It is important to not under estimate the importance of the diameter of the projectile. Obviously, diameter is the variable in calculating the area of the projectile. so the 124gr expands to 0.7" but only pentrates to 12.2". That's a projectile area of 0.384 and a wound channel with a volume of approximately 4.695 cubic inches. The 147gr bullet penetrates to 13.9" but only expands to 0.65". That's a projectile area of 0.331" and a wound channel with a volume of approximately 4.612 cubic inches. These calculations are obviously extremely rough... the bullet isn't expanded to those diameters until after they have consumed some of the penetration distance which would close the margin to nearly identical. Also the expanded projectiles aren't perfect circles and therefore it isn't as simple as Pi*R^2 to calculate the area. I use the RA9T as my standard SD 9mm load, but I'd be just as comfortable with the 124gr. load. Does anyone know at approximately what depth the projectile will be fully expanded? Does it "pop" open like a parachute being deployed or is it a gradual process with it expanding "slowly" along the length of penetration? |
Bonded version are even deeper |
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I use Fed HST 147 grain in my Glock 19, Hornady TAP 147grain in my Glock 26 and Golden Sabre or Hornady TAP 124 grainers in my SW3913 and SW5903TSW. Why? Because the 147 grain worked better and more accurette in my Glocks and the Smiths liked the Hornady and Golden Sabre Better. My wife carries Hornady TAP 124 grain in her Khar CW9. Each gun likes its own. I have been stocking more 124 grain due to finding it local cheaper per 50 than the other stuff. |