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Posted: 8/25/2017 8:31:44 PM EDT
Barnes has long been known for their solid copper rifle bullets with a well-established reputation in the hunting fields. Something that may not be as well known to some is their line of defensive ammo. This Barnes 9mm load is labeled as +P but the velocity seemed a little low in my sample. This ammo was shot using a Sig P229 with a 3.9-inch barrel. Shot into two 16 inch blocks of Clear Ballistics gel. Two round into bare gel than two rounds into gel covered with heavy clothing and then finally two rounds out of an M&P Shield with a 3.1-inch barrel.
The first round into the bare gel had a velocity of 1047fps, penetrated to 13.5 inches and expanded to .68 inches. Round number two penetrated to 13.25 inches, expanded to .69 inches and had a velocity of 1067fps. 
The first shot into the heavy clothing gel did not register on the chronograph but penetrated to 12.5 inches and expanded to .70 inches. The second round also expanded to .70 inches, penetrated to 13 inches with a velocity of 1048fps. 
The velocity out of the Shield dropped a bit with the first shot coming in at 997fps, penetrated to 12.5 inches and opened up to .69 inches. The second round also penetrated to 12.5 inches with a velocity of 980fps and expanded to .70 inches. 
http://www.general-cartridge.com/ |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 8:56:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Great test! Thanks so much.
With the uniform expansion and sharp petals these are an interesting choice. For personal carry I probably want 16+ penetration in gel though ... personally ... although my carry ammo doesnt expand to .7 lol! |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 10:38:27 AM EDT
[#2]
Dang, that's pretty good. I'd prefer it a bit heavier than 115gr, though.
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Posted: 8/26/2017 1:42:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dang, that's pretty good. I'd prefer it a bit heavier than 115gr, though. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 5:50:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These have the same length as a 147gr bullet. Length of bearing surface, shank gives it its penetration characteristics. I may be wrong, but my guess is a 147gr 9mm would break through bones better .... how much I am not so sure. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 8:00:31 AM EDT
[#5]
Nice report and appreciated. Another alternative for sub-sonic, lower recoil and good penetration. Am guessing the separated sharp petals give it the penetration, and as someone suggested, less possible energy for penetrating bone.
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Posted: 8/27/2017 9:35:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the monolithic copper bullet that retains its weight also helps ... no shedding fragments as a 115gr hollowpoint might do. In testing many 115gr JHPs don't meet minimum penetration, but that's not the case with these or Corbon DPX. I may be wrong, but my guess is a 147gr 9mm would break through bones better .... how much I am not so sure. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 9:40:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice report and appreciated. Another alternative for sub-sonic, lower recoil and good penetration. Am guessing the separated sharp petals give it the penetration, and as someone suggested, less possible energy for penetrating bone. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 9:47:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your not breaking bones with a 9-40-45. From experience you wont break a thigh bone with 147gr +p+ Usually I carry Underwood 200gr XTP in my 10mm I was hoping that would have a better chance at breaking hip bones... in a conceal carry situation I was thinking you might have to draw quickly and shoot the hips/balls. Or if they had body armor, etc. Do you think that would be significantly better? The 10mm hunters tell me this or the 180gr XTP will break whitetail shoulders well ( not the same thing, but just for reference) |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 11:32:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your not breaking bones with a 9-40-45. From experience you wont break a thigh bone with 147gr +p+ http://www.orthobullets.com/trauma/1059/gun-shot-wounds |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 11:49:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Even low velocity pistol bullets will do plenty of damage to bones.
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Posted: 8/28/2017 6:17:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anecdote is not the same as evidence. Pistol rounds will most certainly break bones. http://www.orthobullets.com/trauma/1059/gun-shot-wounds |
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Posted: 9/9/2017 1:45:28 PM EDT
[#12]
How is a 115gr 9mm at less than 1100fps rated as +P ??'
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Posted: 9/9/2017 2:00:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is a 115gr 9mm at less than 1100fps rated as +P ??' |
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Posted: 9/9/2017 9:51:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your not breaking bones with a 9-40-45. From experience you wont break a thigh bone with 147gr +p+ |
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Posted: 9/9/2017 11:28:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's ridiculous. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Your not breaking bones with a 9-40-45. From experience you wont break a thigh bone with 147gr +p+ I think most / all ammo that passes the FBI test would break an arm or sternum though. The comment by UrbancommandoX (and others) are the reason I usually carry ammo that will penetrate closer to 18in in gel rather than 12. |
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Posted: 9/10/2017 8:18:41 AM EDT
[#16]
The same bullet loaded by Corbon approaches 1300 fps from a 4 inch barrel.
Those Barnes seem to be kind of slow. |
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Posted: 9/10/2017 8:35:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Thank you for posting your gel results. While the velocity seems lower than I would have expected the expansion looks great and I like the fact they stayed intact.
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Posted: 9/10/2017 9:07:55 AM EDT
[#18]
Barnes makes a 9mm 125gr TAC XP meant for the 357 SIG. I wonder how it would do in a 9mm Luger case. Being nearly 3/4" long there won't be much room for powder but if it could be poked out at about 1,000fps it might work well.
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Posted: 9/10/2017 9:20:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well the OP is saying form experience ... it makes sense to me at least part of the time due ot muscles and the angle and the large size of the bones, a 9mm would not break a thigh bone each time. Also depending on the +P+ expansion might have been more dramatic, spending energy before the bone was hit. Of course, 147gr XTP and 147gr HST are going to penetrate differently but we're still talking 9mm. I think most / all ammo that passes the FBI test would break an arm or sternum though. The comment by UrbancommandoX (and others) are the reason I usually carry ammo that will penetrate closer to 18in in gel rather than 12. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your not breaking bones with a 9-40-45. From experience you wont break a thigh bone with 147gr +p+ I think most / all ammo that passes the FBI test would break an arm or sternum though. The comment by UrbancommandoX (and others) are the reason I usually carry ammo that will penetrate closer to 18in in gel rather than 12. |
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Posted: 9/10/2017 3:34:34 PM EDT
[#20]
While it's true that +P refers to the pressure, and not the velocity, the two normally go hand in hand. Barnes advertises the velocity of this round at 1125fps from a 4-inch barrel. I was getting much less by about 75fps.
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Posted: 9/11/2017 7:22:27 PM EDT
[#21]
I chronoed the 140gr .40 version of this in a 4.25" M&P and it was very slow. I'll check my notes but it wasnt much over 1000.
Recoil was very very light though and it does well in gel. I shot one into milk jugs it expanded well. |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 5:49:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Remember guys... it depends what part of the bone is hit....and bullet construction matters.
BONE.-- A study of the injury to bone, as demonstrated by the skiagrams, shows that the bullet has a tendency to perforate the joint ends of bones with little or no tendency to lateral displacement. The resistance offered by the soft spongy structure of bone near the joint ends is not sufficient, as a rule, to disintegrate the bullet, and lead fragments are seldom seen in these cases. The bullets which cause the injury to the joint ends are generally recovered practically undeformed. See skiagrams Nos. 1, 2 and 3. The injury to the bones in their RESISTANT STRUCTURE, as for instance, in the shaft of the long bones, is very different to that just described. The bone in this part is hard; it offers enough resistance to break up the bullet into fragments. The force of impact is so great and the amount of energy which is liberated by the deforming bullet is so effective that extensive fracture of bone is noted. The pieces of bone are unusually large, and the fissures in the bone substance away from the point of impact are long, as much as two and three inches in some cases. The degree of deformation of the bullets varies as shown in the illustrations, from the deposition of small particles in some cases to larger ones in others. At times the whole of the bullet seems to have disintegrated and to have thus lodged at the seat of fracture. The bullets recovered in the barrel show all manner of deformation, and the majority have lost from one-third to two-thirds of their weight. See Skiagrams 4, 5 and 6. http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/TLGR/TLGR3/tlgr3.html |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 7:09:50 AM EDT
[#23]
I sometimes carry the CorBon version of this load. It is also +P and has much faster velocity I believe. A good, accurate and reliable load IMO. All of the latest jell tests of this bullet show very consistant performance.
I have previously read that the .380 is the weakest standard pistol load that will reliably break bones. I have no idea where the "pistol rounds don't break bones" came from. Total BS. |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 7:24:48 AM EDT
[#24]
This is the ammo that I currently use for my daily carry.
It is slower and lighter than most other 9mm self-defense rounds, but the expansion performance tests are impressive and most of all, consistent. I believe they use a low-flash powder formulation as well (to minimize the muzzle flash effect a shooter may encounter in low-light situations). Bottom line is I am willing to trade some velocity and mass for more expansion. Just my .02 |
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Posted: 9/24/2017 9:32:28 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Evidence? I guess you missed the part about personal experience. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anecdote is not the same as evidence. Pistol rounds will most certainly break bones. http://www.orthobullets.com/trauma/1059/gun-shot-wounds |
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