WTF... New MP 45 defective ?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - WTF... New MP 45 defective ? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 4/15/2017 4:19:05 PM EDT

Purchased a new SW MP 45 acp. Great shooting handgun put about 200 rounds down range yesterday.

This is not the 2.0

Anyway, when I insert loaded magazine with any force, the slide releases.

It's not the magazines, I function tested with every mag I had on hand, for a total of 9 magazines.

Any help appreciated. Sucks if I have to send her to SW for repair.

Posted: 4/15/2017 4:33:54 PM EDT

[#1]

Got two mp 9's that do same thing when you slam the mags in.

Posted: 4/15/2017 4:40:05 PM EDT

[#2]

This is a known issue. It is the reason S&W redesigned the slide lock on the 2.0s. My 2.0 doesn't do that.

Posted: 4/15/2017 4:48:24 PM EDT

[#3]

Lots of guns do this... I don't view it as a bad thing.

Posted: 4/15/2017 5:25:36 PM EDT

[#4]

My first M&P 9 that I purchased in 2008 had that feature, when the slide stop broke and I replaced it with a new style it would no longer chamber a round when the magazine was inserted forcefully.

Posted: 4/15/2017 5:58:04 PM EDT

[#5]

My 9mm does that, it's normal. Neither of my .45 M&Ps do this. Doesnt really matter either way to me. If it chambers a round it's one less step till it goes bang.

Posted: 4/15/2017 8:59:11 PM EDT

[#6]

This is not a defect. It's a feature.

Posted: 4/15/2017 10:13:47 PM EDT

[#7]

I had a .45 full size that did it.

Posted: 4/15/2017 10:14:14 PM EDT

[#8]

Auto forwarding has been around for decades (my 4506 did it), it's not new, not a defect, and not unique to your M&P 45. My H&K USPc 9 does it, as do millions of other guns around the world.

Posted: 4/16/2017 4:43:42 AM EDT

[#9]

My HK USPC 9mm doesn't do it. I personally do not see it as a feature. I don't want anything going into the chamber until I am ready for it to be there. That is why I like what they did to the 2.0 with the detent on the slide lock.

Posted: 4/16/2017 10:02:58 AM EDT

[#10]

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My HK USPC 9mm doesn't do it. I personally do not see it as a feature. I don't want anything going into the chamber until I am ready for it to be there. That is why I like what they did to the 2.0 with the detent on the slide lock.

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What he said. Guns are not designed to do that.
It is a fuck-up which is why S&W arranged for their version 2 to not do it.

Posted: 4/16/2017 10:38:00 AM EDT

[#11]

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This is not a defect. It's a feature.

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No, no its not a " feature "

Posted: 4/16/2017 11:02:04 AM EDT

[#12]

It's a feature, not a defect.

Posted: 4/16/2017 11:02:56 AM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:
My HK USPC 9mm doesn't do it. I personally do not see it as a feature. I don't want anything going into the chamber until I am ready for it to be there. That is why I like what they did to the 2.0 with the detent on the slide lock.

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Why the fuck would there be a mag in your pistol with the slide back if you don't want anything in the chamber? That makes absolutely no sense.

Posted: 4/16/2017 11:18:24 AM EDT

[#14]

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Why the fuck would there be a mag in your pistol with the slide back if you don't want anything in the chamber? That makes absolutely no sense.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
My HK USPC 9mm doesn't do it. I personally do not see it as a feature. I don't want anything going into the chamber until I am ready for it to be there. That is why I like what they did to the 2.0 with the detent on the slide lock.

Why the fuck would there be a mag in your pistol with the slide back if you don't want anything in the chamber? That makes absolutely no sense.

Let's just say, for a lucid moment here, that one would like to see how the top round in the mag is positioned in relation to the barrel.

That would just one "the fuck" reason to not have a goddamned slide fly home immediately when a fucking loaded mag is inserted...

Posted: 4/16/2017 11:26:29 AM EDT

[#15]

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Quoted:
Let's just say, for a lucid moment here, that one would like to see how the top round in the mag is positioned in relation to the barrel.

That would just one "the fuck" reason to not have a goddamned slide fly home immediately when a fucking loaded mag is inserted...

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Quoted:

Quoted:
My HK USPC 9mm doesn't do it. I personally do not see it as a feature. I don't want anything going into the chamber until I am ready for it to be there. That is why I like what they did to the 2.0 with the detent on the slide lock.

Why the fuck would there be a mag in your pistol with the slide back if you don't want anything in the chamber? That makes absolutely no sense.

Let's just say, for a lucid moment here, that one would like to see how the top round in the mag is positioned in relation to the barrel.

That would just one "the fuck" reason to not have a goddamned slide fly home immediately when a fucking loaded mag is inserted...

It's definitely not when "a fucking loaded mag is inserted", you have to put some force into it. I have 3 or 4 M&Ps, they all take a little bit of a slam for it to go forward.

I carried the USP9 for a few years on duty, with a little force the USP did the same as the OP is talking about. This isn't a new thing, nor is it something that, in reality, needs to be worried about.

And top round positioned in relation to the barrel? What chicom cheap bullshit gun is that an issue? I've never had an issue with any of the handguns I've carried, if it isn't full-retard HK backwards in the mag, it goes in.

Posted: 4/16/2017 2:57:59 PM EDT

[#16]

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It's a feature, not a defect.

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Source? I can not find anything that cites what you discribe as a "feature". The slide slamming into battery when you insert a magazine is not a feature. It is the result of a poor design and in the case of your USP either a worn out or out of spec slide lock spring. None of my HKs do that. Not my VP9, P30, P2000 or my USP9C. My Glocks don't do it, my third gen S&Ws don't do it. None of my Sigs or Berettas do it either. Finally, my M&P 2.0 doesn't do it. So I guess S&W eliminated this "feature" in the 2.0s. Why? Because it's not a feature.

Posted: 4/16/2017 4:05:18 PM EDT

[#17]

I view it as a feature as all my NIB m&p have done it and is very nice.

If I buy a 2.0, I will remove whatever piece is used to disable this feature.

Posted: 4/16/2017 5:11:17 PM EDT

[#18]

In all of the selling points in all of the advertisements in all the magazines not once does S&W mention this "feature". I wonder why that is.

Posted: 4/16/2017 6:04:00 PM EDT

[#19]

I have never understood why people slam mags home so hard on a locked slide.

Posted: 4/16/2017 6:09:51 PM EDT

[#20]

I never noticed it before but my older 45 does that also. It takes very little force to send the slide forward and chamber a round.

I unloaded it and shook it around but could not get it to release.
Mine is a pretty beat up old surplus police pistol

Posted: 4/16/2017 6:11:35 PM EDT

[#21]

[Deleted]

Posted: 4/16/2017 6:25:50 PM EDT

[#22]

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I have never understood why people slam mags home so hard on a locked slide.

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Because sometimes guns get muddy and dirty, polymer magwells like to gum up with said mud and dirt. This friction will make you think you have fully seated a mag when you really haven't. Driving the mag home ensures it will lock on the mag catch and not drop free after your first shot. This is why I am a big fan of over sized floor plates like those from Tango Down. They give you a wide surface area to drive the mag home and if the mag is stuck there is enough purchase on the sides of the floor plate to strip the magazine out.

Posted: 4/16/2017 8:59:53 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
It's definitely not when "a fucking loaded mag is inserted", you have to put some force into it. I have 3 or 4 M&Ps, they all take a little bit of a slam for it to go forward.

I carried the USP9 for a few years on duty, with a little force the USP did the same as the OP is talking about. This isn't a new thing, nor is it something that, in reality, needs to be worried about.

And top round positioned in relation to the barrel? What chicom cheap bullshit gun is that an issue? I've never had an issue with any of the handguns I've carried, if it isn't full-retard HK backwards in the mag, it goes in.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
My HK USPC 9mm doesn't do it. I personally do not see it as a feature. I don't want anything going into the chamber until I am ready for it to be there. That is why I like what they did to the 2.0 with the detent on the slide lock.

Why the fuck would there be a mag in your pistol with the slide back if you don't want anything in the chamber? That makes absolutely no sense.

Let's just say, for a lucid moment here, that one would like to see how the top round in the mag is positioned in relation to the barrel.

That would just one "the fuck" reason to not have a goddamned slide fly home immediately when a fucking loaded mag is inserted...

It's definitely not when "a fucking loaded mag is inserted", you have to put some force into it. I have 3 or 4 M&Ps, they all take a little bit of a slam for it to go forward.

I carried the USP9 for a few years on duty, with a little force the USP did the same as the OP is talking about. This isn't a new thing, nor is it something that, in reality, needs to be worried about.

And top round positioned in relation to the barrel? What chicom cheap bullshit gun is that an issue? I've never had an issue with any of the handguns I've carried, if it isn't full-retard HK backwards in the mag, it goes in.

I shot IPSC/USPSA for twenty years, I've done a shit ton of reloads under match pressure shooting Colt 1911s and later a Glock 24 and having a weak or defective slide stop was never considered to be a "fucking feature" nor have I ever seen a reputable gun smith offer to provide such a wonderful "feature."

Posted: 4/17/2017 4:08:49 AM EDT

[#24]

It's neither a feature, nor a defect. Simply a byproduct of the design (and there are LOTS of other guns that will do this too.)

Posted: 4/17/2017 9:15:02 AM EDT

[#25]

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It's neither a feature, nor a defect. Simply a byproduct of the design (and there are LOTS of other guns that will do this too.)

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This. I've got several M&P's. My original fullsize .45 will do it occasionally, but my original fullsize 9mm will do it every single time. It spoiled me when shooting matches, making for super fast reloads, but it doesn't make for good training. You can't get used to not dropping/slingshotting the slide manually if you have other guns that don't do it.

My new 2.0 doesn't do it, obviously, due to the re-designed slide stop.

Posted: 4/17/2017 11:43:55 AM EDT

[#26]

My full size 45 does the same thing if the mag is inserted with a fair amount of force. I don't find it overly complicated. If I want it to auto forward, I smack it in pretty hard. If I don't want it to auto forward, I don't smack it in so hard. Rocket surgery

.

Posted: 4/17/2017 1:05:55 PM EDT

[#27]

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My full size 45 does the same thing if the mag is inserted with a fair amount of force. I don't find it overly complicated. If I want it to auto forward, I smack it in pretty hard. If I don't want it to auto forward, I don't smack it in so hard. Rocket surgery

.

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LOL, no it isn't "rocket surgery" but it sure isn't a "feature" either.

Posted: 4/17/2017 2:44:27 PM EDT

[#28]

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LOL, no it isn't "rocket surgery" but it sure isn't a "feature" either.

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Quoted:
My full size 45 does the same thing if the mag is inserted with a fair amount of force. I don't find it overly complicated. If I want it to auto forward, I smack it in pretty hard. If I don't want it to auto forward, I don't smack it in so hard. Rocket surgery

.

LOL, no it isn't "rocket surgery" but it sure isn't a "feature" either.

I think you'd be better off taking your argument to Sir Issac Newton.

Auto forwarding is nothing more than a lesson in physics.

Posted: 4/17/2017 6:52:31 PM EDT

[#29]

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LOL, no it isn't "rocket surgery" but it sure isn't a "feature" either.

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Fine. It's a featureless feature. It's there if you want it, and not if you don't.

Posted: 4/17/2017 7:24:39 PM EDT

[#30]

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Lots of guns do this... I don't view it as a bad thing.

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This. It isn't a defect, it's a feature. I love it when my Glocks autoload.

Posted: 4/18/2017 4:13:10 AM EDT

[#31]

Auto forwarding isnt caused by how hard you insert the mag. Instead, it is the angle in which your hand hits the bottom of the frame.

Posted: 4/18/2017 9:24:39 AM EDT

[#32]

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Auto forwarding isnt caused by how hard you insert the mag. Instead, it is the angle in which your hand hits the bottom of the frame.

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Both really. My fullsize 9 didn't care, as long as you inserted it firmly, even with a mag with one round in it.
The angle of the grip alone means that the impact of a full mag will reduce the slide pressure on the slide stop.

Posted: 4/20/2017 3:50:46 PM EDT

[#33]

My M&P45 and my glock 19 do this if I jam the mag in. I typically don't spam the mag though.

Posted: 4/20/2017 8:42:25 PM EDT

[#34]

Both my fairly new Gen 1 full size M&P 9, and 45 do this. I kinda like it.

Posted: 4/23/2017 3:43:08 AM EDT

[#35]

I have a bunch of guns that do this, and I don't see it as a problem. None of them "carry forward" unless I slam a mag in forcefully, so it only happens when I want it to.

Posted: 4/23/2017 12:10:42 PM EDT

[#36]

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Lots of guns do this... I don't view it as a bad thing.

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I wont own a pistol that wont do it.

M&P 2.0 will never be in my collection since they "fixed" it.

slam the mag and roll......

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:48:12 PM EDT

[#37]

Meh. Mine do this, and I use it to my advantage.

Posted: 4/27/2017 3:57:06 PM EDT

[#38]

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No, no its not a " feature "

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Strangely enough every polymer frames handgun I have had did this.

Posted: 4/27/2017 4:01:23 PM EDT

[#39]

What happens when it doesn't work?

Posted: 4/30/2017 9:21:25 AM EDT

[#40]

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What happens when it doesn't work?

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That's the big peice of the puzzle they are not seeing. It is creating a training scar. They are becoming reliant on a process that is not supposed to happen under normal situations, happening. When it doesn't "auto forward" in a gun fight it is going to get inside their OODA loop like a mother fucker and make them s-l-o-w or worse the gun is going to auto home, fail to pick up a round or cause a failure to feed malfunction which this practice will sometimes do and they will be even s--l--o--w--e--r to get back into the fight. I just hope they have enough lucky rabbit feet, four leaf clovers or at least ate a bowl of lucky charms that morning to survive the fight.

Posted: 5/2/2017 8:55:55 PM EDT

[#41]

Great. Anybody have any idea how many people S&W has killed with a fail to Auto forward failure? If I got killed by one, i would certainly never forgive them. I know a number of local agencies have used the M&P pistols for years and this has not come up during their multi agency annual training. Actually, not sure I have heard of it causing an issue. Anybody heard different?

Posted: 5/3/2017 8:45:00 AM EDT

[#42]

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Great. Anybody have any idea how many people S&W has killed with a fail to Auto forward failure? If I got killed by one, i would certainly never forgive them. I know a number of local agencies have used the M&P pistols for years and this has not come up during their multi agency annual training. Actually, not sure I have heard of it causing an issue. Anybody heard different?

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Nope.
Only department issues with M&Ps here was the extractor geometry on early guns would sometimes hold the gun out of battery with the issued holsters that liked to bump the slide back ~1/8" when holstering. They went back to Glocks over it...
No issues with any of mine, though...

Posted: 5/3/2017 8:56:32 AM EDT

[#43]

My FNX45 does it, I love it...hello, back in operation

I consider it a feature

Posted: 5/3/2017 9:00:30 AM EDT

[#44]

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I had a .45 full size that did it.

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This.
I liked it. You had to jam it in there to get it to do this so I figured that if you were in a hurry up/ oh shit moment I viewed this as a good thing. If you wanted to rack the slide yourself you put it in there with more leisurely manor.

Posted: 5/3/2017 10:42:54 AM EDT

[#45]

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Great. Anybody have any idea how many people S&W has killed with a fail to Auto forward failure? If I got killed by one, i would certainly never forgive them. I know a number of local agencies have used the M&P pistols for years and this has not come up during their multi agency annual training. Actually, not sure I have heard of it causing an issue. Anybody heard different?

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Enjoy your auto forward "feature", I'm sure they made it that way. That's why it exists in the 2.0 right?

Posted: 5/3/2017 11:25:32 AM EDT

[#46]

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You don't really want to discuss all of the many problems S&W has had over the years with the M&P do you? How many agency's have dropped the M&P? Agency's like the Atlanta Police dept that prior to the shit show that is the original M&P had a long standing relationship with S&W. Nah, you don't want to really go down that road. You will just get all defensive. Enjoy your auto forward "feature", I'm sure they made it that way. That's why it exists in the 2.0 right?

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No, I am not defending S&W. You are trying to dream up goofy shit that will supposedly get someone killed (auto forwarding). I am fully aware of agencies having discontinued the M&P series for whatever reasons they chose to do so. I am also aware that other agencies have also gone away from Glock and Sig Sauer as well.

I own ~~one~~ two M&P's, a full size 45 and a 9mm Shield. The rest of my additional pistols are Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, Springfield Armory and a couple Turk built 1911's. They all work as advertised. Our local agencies using the M&P40 pistols like them more than they did their previous Glock 22's and most have said their officers shoot a bit better with them as well. To date, there have been no deaths (or injuries) caused by the auto forwarding hazard feature

.

Posted: 5/3/2017 2:17:25 PM EDT

[#47]

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No, I am not defending S&W. You are trying to dream up goofy shit that will supposedly get someone killed (auto forwarding). I am fully aware of agencies having discontinued the M&P series for whatever reasons they chose to do so. I am also aware that other agencies have also gone away from Glock and Sig Sauer as well.

I own ~~one~~ two M&P's, a full size 45 and a 9mm Shield. The rest of my additional pistols are Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, Springfield Armory and a couple Turk built 1911's. They all work as advertised. Our local agencies using the M&P40 pistols like them more than they did their previous Glock 22's and most have said their officers shoot a bit better with them as well. To date, there have been no deaths (or injuries) caused by the auto forwarding hazard feature

.

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There is nothing goofy about anything I said. Training scars are proven things. The tasks that you perform regularly become muscle memory. In times of extreme stress our process slow down. We lean hard on what we know and our gross motor skills. If when we practice at the range and the magazine always drops free from the gun and like this feature and we don't see a need to concern ourselves with the what if. The manufacture created the drop free feature after all so why worry about the magazine not dropping free and one day we find ourselves in a fight and the magazine doesn't drop free, what happens? Our perfect process has become less perfect. We become slow.

I have for decades been told this same sort of thing, "when the ballon goes up", when you end up on a "two way range", it will be totally different. I never fully committed to believing that I couldn't simply make an on the fly adjustment until I found myself "with the ballon up". While I can't go into specifics as there is still an ongoing court case. What I can tell you is while I never fired my weapon, I have never felt so indecisive, unsure, just plain dumb as I did in those few moments. Your brain is simply flooded trying to use your best judgement, trying to remember fundmentals, meanwhile your brain is screaming along at 1000mps asking "WTF is happening". All this makes you very slow. Adding new, unusual processes to this environment will make you even slower. If you don't train that way you won't fight that way. Using a defect as a feature could get your hurt or killed under the right circumstances.

The only thing goofy here is your last sentence, you are stating that as a fact. Are you now an expert of every shooting? Do you keep a running column with dates and times? Do you have these stats in PDF format or excell spread sheets? If so I would really like to pick your brain. Seriously you don't know one way or the other. So yeah you're right.

Posted: 5/3/2017 3:23:06 PM EDT

[#48]

Yes, the last sentence in my post was neither correct nor complete. As I stated in my previous post, I was not aware of any deaths or injuries caused by the auto forwarding issue and also asked if others had info indicating such a thing had actually happened. I incorrectly failed to add that in the last sentence of my last post and for that I apologize. I suspect that neither you nor I are experts in such research.

I understand your point regarding training and you are not alone in having been involved in a deadly force incident. I am glad that you indicated you did not have to shoot in your incident. I was not as fortunate and carry permanent scars and permanent injuries from one which occurred over 20 years ago. As indicated, none of the local agencies have indicated any issues with auto forwarding having caused a problem. If you know of such a case, please share,as, to date, I have not read or heard of one.

If you perceive the auto forwarding being a potential issue, then apparently you made the right choice by not carrying said pistol. I respect your decision. With that, I wish you luck in the future and stay safe.

Posted: 5/3/2017 3:53:05 PM EDT

[#49]

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Yes, the last sentence in my post was neither correct nor complete. As I stated in my previous post, I was not aware of any deaths or injuries caused by the auto forwarding issue and also asked if others had info indicating such a thing had actually happened. I incorrectly failed to add that in the last sentence of my last post and for that I apologize. I suspect that neither you nor I are experts in such research.

I understand your point regarding training and you are not alone in having been involved in a deadly force incident. I am glad that you indicated you did not have to shoot in your incident. I was not as fortunate and carry permanent scars and permanent injuries from one which occurred over 20 years ago. As indicated, none of the local agencies have indicated any issues with auto forwarding having caused a problem. If you know of such a case, please share,as, to date, I have not read or heard of one.

If you perceive the auto forwarding being a potential issue, then apparently you made the right choice by not carrying said pistol. I respect your decision. With that, I wish you luck in the future and stay safe.

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I'm sorry to hear about your shooting. Like you I'm sure, it changed my mindset and perceptions about training. Knowing what was going through my mind before, during and after has changed the way I carry, use and train with a gun. It is probably this new found passion that is showing with my comments in this thread. If I am comeing off like a jerk in this thread I apologize that is not my intent. It's good to read others view points even if they differ from your own.

Posted: 5/3/2017 4:21:42 PM EDT

[#50]

Not a jerk at all. It's the internet, shit happens. I simply read the initial response as being a bit goofy, but looking at it from your perspective, I can understand you position a bit better.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - WTF... New MP 45 defective ? (Page 1 of 2)

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