[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Never Again..... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/22/2012 7:00:38 PM EDT
 I posted earlyer about my s&w rusting up.
http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/IMAG0451.jpg So s&w sent me a shipping lable and the gun was returned. 2 weeks later it came back fedex with a work order listing the repairs. http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/IMAG0637.jpg Tonite the Mrs. and me went out to do some shopping so I figured i'd slip it in my belt and to my surprise 4 hours later when we got home when I pulled it from my holster this is what I found. http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/IMAG06351.jpg I will NEVER again owne a s&w ( I'm now guessing that s&w stands for $#i++y weapon) Now I'm debating weather to send it back and demand everything swiched to stainless steel thats not aluminum, or just try and clean it up and dump it off on a trade for something nice like a GLOCK 26, or a KAHR CM9. Its not even usefull for a boat anchor since its a "air weight'. s&w got me on 2 different guns noe with crappy finishes. NEVER AGAIN...
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Sorry about your gun, and not meaning to be a dick, but it IS blued steel. Blued steel is very susceptible to sweat and body oils and rusts fairly easy. In fact, weapons grade stainless isn't stainFREE, it's stainLESS. It's not the same alloy that stainless silverware, for example, is made of and includes more carbon to make it better for use in guns. Weapons grade stainless will also rust, it just takes longer and is harder to do. Without proper care, it will also rust faster than you'd think it would. I used to carry a S&W M649 Bodyguard in stainless. I sweated on it like a pig while working outside one sunny summer day and forgot to wipe it down that night. A few days later, when cleaning, I took the rubber stocks off and found not just rust, but pitting under the stocks.
My advice to you would to be to use a brass brush and some solvent or something to clean off the rust that is there, then use some sort of preservative on the blued finish to help prevent further rusting. I've had good luck with plain old Johnson's Paste Wax. You use it just like you would wax a car. Put on a moderate coat, wait for it to dry, then buff it off. 3 coats seem to be good for me, then another coat every week or so when the gun is carried, because the wax does get worn off, again just like a car. I've been pocket carrying a blued Ruger LCP for a couple weeks now and have had absolutely no trouble, even with sweating on it. I've renewed the wax once and am about to do it again and no issues. Give it a try and see if it works out for you. Whatever you do, just remember, it is blued and will require more, and more frequent, care and preventative maintenance than stainless. Bub75 |
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Looks like what happens to me sometimes. Some people just have that acid type of sweat. If nothing else, ask them to switch out parts or the entire gun for a stainless steel model but I'd be surprised if they went that far. If they do, kudos to you! You might not have noticed this on others guns due to their finishes, but since it's summer now where sweat is abundant, it will defiantly happen more and more. If I do carry a blued gun, I always wipe it down with Barricade by Birchwood Casey almost every night, otherwise it has to be something like Melonite on stainless steel like S&W uses on the BG380 and M&P line. It happened on the cylinder release because that's the one blued part you defiantly touched when loading it and it has a nice little checkered surface to hold in the oils/sweat.
I had the Ultralight 638 with stainless steel parts and it never exhibited any rust. No fault of S&Ws really. |
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Looks like what happens to me sometimes. Some people just have that acid type of sweat. If nothing else, ask them to switch out parts or the entire gun for a stainless steel model but I'd be surprised if they went that far. If they do, kudos to you! You might not have noticed this on others guns due to their finishes, but since it's summer now where sweat is abundant, it will defiantly happen more and more. If I do carry a blued gun, I always wipe it down with Barricade by Birchwood Casey almost every night, otherwise it has to be something like Melonite on stainless steel like S&W uses on the BG380 and M&P line. It happened on the cylinder release because that's the one blued part you defiantly touched when loading it and it has a nice little checkered surface to hold in the oils/sweat. I had the Ultralight 638 with stainless steel parts and it never exhibited any rust. No fault of S&Ws really. I can't touch a blued gun without leaving rust spots, so I don't own any. That's not my fault, nor is it the gun manufacturers' fault. It's just the way it is. S&W did what they could do to make the gun right for you, but they can't alter your body chemistry. If I were you, I'd clean up the rust, reblue the small parts, and sell/trade the gun for something else in stainless...but keep in mind that even the stainless Airweight J- frames have carbon steel triggers and grip screws, and they will rust. I had to reblue the grip screw on my 638 a few times. |
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I understand the "body chemistery" thing, but explain why I can and have carried this old smith and never an issue of any kind, this is the only gun that will never leave me ( which is a "Safe Queen now), well this or my GLOCK23. you cant tell me the J frames arnt sub par. my old Taurus 85 (first handgun) has never even had rust it was used whenI bought it in1990 when my daughter was born. Its worn out and not safe to shoot, a lot of finish worn off but no rust, Whipped with CLP after each use. I just dont get it.
http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/PicturesfromHTCPhone018.jpg I cleaned the 442 thismorning I was going to go trade it today but now that I've calmed down a little I think I'll wait till monday and talk to someone at s&w and see what they might do first. I'd be happy to pay the differance in price on stainless steel parts or a different kind of finish. |
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You know Glocks have painted steel slides, right? Once the acid in your sweat eats the paint off it will rust just like the revolver did. You SHOULD get an M&P with a Stainless Slide and keep the sights painted and oiled.
You are mad at a company that pays shipping both ways and repairs the gun for free with new parts? I would hate to be your wife. |
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You don’t know much at all about GLOCKS finish
"TENIFER” “Unique GLOCK hi-tech surface refinement for barrel and slide. Apart from optimum corrosion protection and anti-reflective finish, a degree of hardness of 64 HRC - close to that of a diamond - is achieved." That processes goes into the steel, it not the black coating. That coating on the barrel and slide can be taken off and then both parts polished up to“chrome” like finish with no corrosion problems. The Melonite processes that s&w is using is a “copy” not that’s a bad thing (+/-) of the TENIFER that GLOCK, WALTHER, and others use so it’s a forging that’s done that won’t just come off from any kind of normal wear. My old GLOCK26 after polishing the barrel. http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/Glock26LMZ361056.jpg http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/Glock26LMZ361070.jpg http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/Glock26LMZ361080.jpg |
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You don’t know much at all about GLOCKS finish "TENIFER” “Unique GLOCK hi-tech surface refinement for barrel and slide. Apart from optimum corrosion protection and anti-reflective finish, a degree of hardness of 64 HRC - close to that of a diamond - is achieved." That processes goes into the steel, it not the black coating. That coating on the barrel and slide can be taken off and then both parts polished up to“chrome” like finish with no corrosion problems. The Melonite processes that s&w is using is a “copy” not that’s a bad thing (+/-) of the TENIFER that GLOCK, WALTHER, and others use so it’s a forging that’s done that won’t just come off from any kind of normal wear. My old GLOCK26 after polishing the barrel. http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/Glock26LMZ361056.jpg http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/Glock26LMZ361070.jpg http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/Glock26LMZ361080.jpg Apparently I don't! lol What compound did you use to polish the barrel? |
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Here are the Holsters, Blackhawk Inside The Pocket, Desantis Nemisis, and Galco Tuck-N-Go IWB. I just talked to S&W and they said to send it back again, their shipping out a new lable. The man I talked to (Mike) said this shouldnt happen and that its NOT buleing its a Matte Black epoxy coating and should be hard to wear off let alone just rust through, in fact its ste same black coating thats used on the Body Guard and M&P revolvers. So he wrote everything down and said to send a note along and they would do what ever needed to solve the problem. I guess we'll see.
http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/IMAG0648.jpg http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/IMAG0651.jpg PS. I soaked the gun in PB Blaster over the weekend and got most of the rust off theres still some down it the lock and just cant get it and in the sun theres an " rusty orange" hugh to the thumb latch and cylinder. |
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Interesting. I can see the cylinder latch not being blued but I could swear the cylinders and barrel are.
Either way - Your issue is so severe that something must be wrong. Blueing provides practically no rust protection and I have plenty of blued guns that don't rust like you are reporting. S&W has good customer service and they should take care of it. |
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You know Glocks have painted steel slides, right? Once the acid in your sweat eats the paint off it will rust just like the revolver did. You SHOULD get an M&P with a Stainless Slide and keep the sights painted and oiled. You are mad at a company that pays shipping both ways and repairs the gun for free with new parts? I would hate to be your wife. Wow.......just wow........... |
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Send it in to someone like MMI or similar and not worry about it anymore.... Stainless will rust also.
you could also do Cerakote etc and this would help but I think the Salt bath finishes are about as good as it gets. Might also try Black T. There are many fixes but the cheapest one is to ditch the gun and move on to a lesser weapon. Most expensive fix is 24kt gold plating from Fords. |
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You know Glocks have painted steel slides, right? Once the acid in your sweat eats the paint off it will rust just like the revolver did. You SHOULD get an M&P with a Stainless Slide and keep the sights painted and oiled. You are mad at a company that pays shipping both ways and repairs the gun for free with new parts? I would hate to be your wife. 
OP have you tried a waxed leather or kydex holster that won't absorb sweat? |
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Send it in to someone like MMI or similar and not worry about it anymore.... Stainless will rust also. you could also do Cerakote etc and this would help but I think the Salt bath finishes are about as good as it gets. Might also try Black T. There are many fixes but the cheapest one is to ditch the gun and move on to a lesser weapon. Most expensive fix is 24kt gold plating from Fords. I am going to dump it off just as soon as it comes back from s&w for the second time. But "lesser weapon"? No its getting traded on a GLOCK 27, I thought about a 26 but since I already have a 22, 23x2, I'll be able to use all those magazines with it plus I have a bunch of extra parts. |
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You know Glocks have painted steel slides, right? Once the acid in your sweat eats the paint off it will rust just like the revolver did. You SHOULD get an M&P with a Stainless Slide and keep the sights painted and oiled. You are mad at a company that pays shipping both ways and repairs the gun for free with new parts? I would hate to be your wife.
OP have you tried a waxed leather or kydex holster that won't absorb sweat? I just bought that holster, I have KYDEX for some other guns , I just like the leather better. But a guy at the gunshop when I was showing the owners all the rust the second time said he sprays his holsters with silicone boot spray, that way it keeps a layer of silicone on the gun at all times The owner sorta chuckled (small shop, everyone kinda knows everyone else) but the guy was quick to say dont laugh, you selling silicone gun clothes. Does anyone else out there do this or heard of this. |
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Send it in to someone like MMI or similar and not worry about it anymore.... Stainless will rust also. you could also do Cerakote etc and this would help but I think the Salt bath finishes are about as good as it gets. Might also try Black T. There are many fixes but the cheapest one is to ditch the gun and move on to a lesser weapon. Most expensive fix is 24kt gold plating from Fords. I am going to dump it off just as soon as it comes back from s&w for the second time. But "lesser weapon"? No its getting traded on a GLOCK 27, I thought about a 26 but since I already have a 22, 23x2, I'll be able to use all those magazines with it plus I have a bunch of extra parts. If you want to use the longer mags in a G27, MAKE SURE you test them to make them work before relying on them. For some reason, the smaller .40 Glocks seem to have a lot less success working with longer magazines than the 9mm Glocks. A bunch of the guys at the PD I work for bought them several years ago, thinking they would be good backups for their larger .40 Glock duty guns. About half would not work worth a damn with the longer mags. Apparently, when your pinky contacts the longer mag, it can make the mag rotate and shift to the point that the front drops down a little, making the ammo slam into the feed ramp and not feed worth a damn. AFAIK, if you get one that doesn't work with the longer mags, you're SOL. If you get one that does work, you're good to go. Also, AFAIK, there's no way to tell if the gun will work or not ahead of time, without actually shooting it with the longer mags. The 9mm guns don't seem to have this problem, only the .40 (and maybe .357, I have no experience with them) guns do. Just something to be aware of, among other issues with the .40 Glocks. Good luck with whatever you choose. Bub75 |
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You know Glocks have painted steel slides, right? Once the acid in your sweat eats the paint off it will rust just like the revolver did. You SHOULD get an M&P with a Stainless Slide and keep the sights painted and oiled. You are mad at a company that pays shipping both ways and repairs the gun for free with new parts? I would hate to be your wife.
OP have you tried a waxed leather or kydex holster that won't absorb sweat? I just bought that holster, I have KYDEX for some other guns , I just like the leather better. But a guy at the gunshop when I was showing the owners all the rust the second time said he sprays his holsters with silicone boot spray, that way it keeps a layer of silicone on the gun at all times The owner sorta chuckled (small shop, everyone kinda knows everyone else) but the guy was quick to say dont laugh, you selling silicone gun clothes. Does anyone else out there do this or heard of this. I have heard of this. In fact, for their suede lined duty holsters, Safariland recommends spraying the suede lining at least once a year with a pure silicone spray. I don't think their goal is rust resistance for the gun; it seems to be more along the lines of keeping the holster lining slick so the gun is easy to draw. I think that it does have a secondary effect (how big of an effect I don't know, but it seems to be there) of rust resistance for the gun, but I don't think that was really what Safariland had in mind. Bub75 |
| well heard from s&w customer service today and it aint good, the rust is my fault to much acid in my sweat. So what they offored to do was replace the gun with a stainless 642 for an additional $280.00 plus the $50.00 for sending to a dealer because of the new serial # and $25.00 for the other fees. theyer out of their freaking minds. I will NEVER again own a piece of s&w garbage... by the way their MSRP is the same for a 442, 642, and the new shield models just something to think about. Im now moving up the food chain there for more help. gotta get this thing back to trade it off on one of the better manufactures, GLOCK, Springfield, Sig, |
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I'd consider getting it back from them as is and sending it to Robar for their NP-3+ finish. You would never have to worry about rust again. The problem with that is the money, the price for the shipping and refinishing I might as well get the Shield or the 642. I dont have the money for either though. this is almost like having to buy another gun just to have the one I already own fixed. If I wouldnt lose my ass I'd get it back just to make a video of shooting it to pieces with duel Glock 23s |
| Still trying for a better resolution, A supervisor named Kate called today to explain everything that was already told to me and they couldnt do anything else, and added "NOONE" should EVER put a s&w handgun in a suede holster of any kind because it is like a sponge with sweat so s&w doesnt recomend it. Plus she made sure to tell me they only fixed it the first time as a courtisy, finish isnt something covered under warrenty. and that 442s "DONT RUST" then turned right around and said that even if I pay the $280.00 to upgrade to a 642 or shield, that they also can rust... What??? So as of now its still unresolved, shes supposed to call back in a nother few days after someone else inspects it and she talks to some "higher ups". |
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Still trying for a better resolution, A supervisor named Kate called today to explain everything that was already told to me and they couldnt do anything else, and added "NOONE" should EVER put a s&w handgun in a suede holster of any kind because it is like a sponge with sweat so s&w doesnt recomend it. Plus she made sure to tell me they only fixed it the first time as a courtisy, finish isnt something covered under warrenty. and that 442s "DONT RUST" then turned right around and said that even if I pay the $280.00 to upgrade to a 642 or shield, that they also can rust... What??? So as of now its still unresolved, shes supposed to call back in a few days after someone else inspects it and she talks to some "higher ups".[/quote] That call was on 7-11-2012, its now 7-17-2012. and still nothing cant even get ahold of her, thats great "customer service" |
| Well I get my 442 back tomorrow, untouched by S&W even had to fight not to have to pay the return shipping. I wont get crap for a rusted gun on a trade so I guess I'm going to try the Duracoat/Ceracoat paint how many on here have dont either one / which is better. I've done Autobody/Fabrication for thirty years so I've painted a couple of times in my life LOL. For anyone whos done this how far did you strip the lil'Jframe down and did you blast it or just scuff it with a pad. While its down I guess I'll through the Apex spring kit in and smothe the "guts" up a little. Still deciding if I'm making a new Kydex holster or maybe just buy a Horsehide IWB. Any thoughts on a nice holster. |
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http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/163073_large.jpg Scandium and stanless, CT laser and night sights, for the win.  Thats a Nice looking gun, but, if I was spending that much it wouldnt be on a Smith Jframe. Plus "stainless steel" rusts just ask anyone in the service dept. at S&W, and thats NOT covered under warrenty if/when it does, just call and ask for "supervisor Kate" she'll tell you, she told me. "RUSTY NO COVER" |
| I had a friend that had "high acid" skin and sweat - his wedding ring literally got eaten through in less than a year. Most of his guns had a lot of rust, including rusty fingerprints. I know he went to a doctor, and got some relief- this was some time ago, and I don't recall the diagnosis or treatment, but it might be something to check out- I also don't remember if the condition was health-threatening or not- I do remember that I always wiped down any gun I let him handle- his touch was really that corrosive! |
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Never again... will I read your posts. Buy an English spelling and grammar textbook, for the love of God.
Per the gun situation, that is extremely frustrating. I would be upset too. But, I wonder if a little oil wouldn't solve the issue in the future? (Not to say that should be NECESSARY, just that it is easier than shopping for a new gun) |
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You don’t know much at all about GLOCKS finish "TENIFER” “Unique GLOCK hi-tech surface refinement for barrel and slide. Apart from optimum corrosion protection and anti-reflective finish, a degree of hardness of 64 HRC - close to that of a diamond - is achieved." That processes goes into the steel, it not the black coating. That coating on the barrel and slide can be taken off and then both parts polished up to“chrome” like finish with no corrosion problems. The Melonite processes that s&w is using is a “copy” not that’s a bad thing (+/-) of the TENIFER that GLOCK, WALTHER, and others use so it’s a forging that’s done that won’t just come off from any kind of normal wear. My old GLOCK26 after polishing the barrel. http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/Glock26LMZ361056.jpg http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/Glock26LMZ361070.jpg http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u366/5dimes5/Glock26LMZ361080.jpg Apparently I don't! lol What compound did you use to polish the barrel? Glocks are no longer Tennifered. They are now Nitrided. |
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Quoted: No sweating problem here, didnt rust in the either pocket holster just the Galco. and if U look that holster isnt even stained from anything. and if you look back my snw 15-4 0% rust that was worn when every time I went out for most of a year. Even my old(early 80s) Taurus 85 which was my first carry handgun an used when I bought it doesnt have rust. And as for Galco they said they make thousands of holsters and theres nothing in them to rust because theyer made from topgrain cowhide and nothing in the tanning proceses to harm a gun.I have pocket carried the 442 and 637 for years and never had a rust problem. I use a Desantis nemesis holster for both. I'm not sure why you are blaming them. You have a sweating problem. My guns never get that wet are your pants wet with sweat? |
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Couple of things:
1. IIRC, S&W does not do all of their finishing in house. Last I knew they shipped stuff out of the factory to have the melonite (another industry name for nitrocarburizing) finish applied to many parts. I assume that the steel parts of your revolver are melonited. This means that the surface of the steel is hardened and then a polymer finish is applied over top of the treated steel. It's a fairly involved process and occasionally some pieces may not receive proper prep/curing during the process and may become more prone to at least surface corrosion. This results in individual parts/weapons from a batch which may be more prone to rust than others that sat right beside it during the process. 2. Surface corrosion in and of itself is ugly, but often isn't a major threat to the long term health of the firearm. IF it remains at surface rust and doesn't pit the underlying metal. The snag is that whether this is just surface rust or more serious depends on where exactly the foul up happened in the finishing process. I doubt if there is way for even S&W to know that on a particular revolver. 3. Body chemistry does indeed play a role in the corrosion you may see on a pistol. Some people seem to have sweat that is as potent as battery acid. Some are more like me who regularly carry a gun against bare skin after sweating in the gym for a couple of hours (and I mean I can wring a cup of sweat out of my shirt when I'm done...if I let the shirt dry I usually see salt stains on the shirt) and yet the guns don't have an issue. I've carried a 442 for years in circumstances like that with no problems. So as to why this particular revolver is showing corrosion when an older one did not, keep in mind that you're comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they are both S&W revolvers...but they are made of different metals ("steel" is generic and doesn't necessarily reflect the exact type of steel used in either weapon) and have different finishes. That being said, even older blued S&W revolvers have, in my experience, tended to resist rust pretty well. Occasionally you see one that rusts if you look at it funny and that seems to indicate an error in the finishing process...not unlike what your J frame is experiencing. 4. S&W's customer service is something of a mixed bag. At one point it was superb. Lately, however, they seem to be resorting to the "it's within spec" bullshit that other gun companies have used for years to get out of fixing problematic weapons. Those other companies are making big money and have lots of fanboys who profess undying love and affection for their brand and will get into heated internet arguments about how fucking awesome that company is...so perhaps S&W has decided they can follow that recipe. I certainly hope not. |