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Posted: 2/6/2006 4:51:59 PM EDT
preface: i own a pair of glock G19's, one black and the other in OD. i will probably die of old age before i part with them. the G19 was my first pistol and i have found it to be simple, reliable, trivial to clean, and functional. i am not surpised when i read that others think similarly.

however...

i'd like to broaden my collection a bit, and am looking at a few pistols -- specifically the HK USP Compact and the SIG P229R. leaving the USP topic aside for a moment, i'd like to pose a few questions about the P229R. all this is in prep for a visit to the gun shop so i can fondle things for a bit. note i'm standardized on 9mm so that issue is settled.

1) it appears to me that, size wise, the P229 and the G19 are comparable; and that the P226 and the G17 are comparable. is this the case? my hands are more suited for the G19, so naturally i'm thinking that they will be close on the P229 as well.

2) this whole DAK business has me a little confused. if i understand the literature correctly, DAK does away with the decocker and the result is (bear with me here) something akin to glock-type operational simplicity? same weight trigger pull for every round from start to finish, with perhaps the added advantage that you can pull twice on an unfired round? is that the gist? am i missing something important here? excuse me for making this comparison, but it occurs to me that operation of the P229R DAK and the G19 are identical, then -- is that correct? (note that my wife shoots also and the commonality of operation with the glock is actually a selling point in this case; moreover, having common processes means less thinking in SHTF type situations).

3) anything else that a G19 owner would want to know?

4) will my SF X200A's mount on the P229R's rail?

5) are there optional slides/barrels which can be used in a P229 to allow shooting different calibers?

optional BONUS questions:
6) why would you sell me on a P229 DAK vs a HK USP Compact? i'm not trying to start a pissing match here on plus-$700 guns, just trying to get a feel for one and the other. as you may have noticed i've been sitting in glock nirvana for 10 years and just don't know the history and development of the USP Compact and the P229R, and why one would choose one over the other.

7) online sources for SIG P229R DAK 9mm in black?

thanks for any input,
ar-jedi



Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:20:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
preface: i own a pair of glock G19's, one black and the other in OD. i will probably die of old age before i part with them. the G19 was my first pistol and i have found it to be simple, reliable, trivial to clean, and functional. i am not surpised when i read that others think similarly.

however...

i'd like to broaden my collection a bit, and am looking at a few pistols -- specifically the HK USP Compact and the SIG P229R. leaving the USP topic aside for a moment, i'd like to pose a few questions about the P229R. all this is in prep for a visit to the gun shop so i can fondle things for a bit. note i'm standardized on 9mm so that issue is settled.

1) it appears to me that, size wise, the P229 and the G19 are comparable; and that the P226 and the G17 are comparable. is this the case? my hands are more suited for the G19, so naturally i'm thinking that they will be close on the P229 as well.

2) this whole DAK business has me a little confused. if i understand the literature correctly, DAK does away with the decocker and the result is (bear with me here) something akin to glock-type operational simplicity? same weight trigger pull for every round from start to finish, with perhaps the added advantage that you can pull twice on an unfired round? is that the gist? am i missing something important here? excuse me for making this comparison, but it occurs to me that operation of the P229R DAK and the G19 are identical, then -- is that correct? (note that my wife shoots also and the commonality of operation with the glock is actually a selling point in this case; moreover, having common processes means less thinking in SHTF type situations).

3) anything else that a G19 owner would want to know?

4) will my SF X200A's mount on the P229R's rail?

5) are there optional slides/barrels which can be used in a P229 to allow shooting different calibers?

optional BONUS questions:
6) why would you sell me on a P229 DAK vs a HK USP Compact? i'm not trying to start a pissing match here on plus-$700 guns, just trying to get a feel for one and the other. as you may have noticed i've been sitting in glock nirvana for 10 years and just don't know the history and development of the USP Compact and the P229R, and why one would choose one over the other.

7) online sources for SIG P229R DAK 9mm in black?

thanks for any input,
ar-jedi






Ironically enough, I am a sigophile seriously close to getting a first glock...weird.

I'll answer what I can here.

1.Yes, the P229 is similar in size to the G19, as the P226 is similar to a G17. Capacity is the same on both. *Using Mecgar 9mm mags, which are just as good as factory, yet hold 2 more rounds than factory*

2. No on the DAK thing. DAK is a trigger system that offers two reset points to allow for faster follow up shots than traditonal DAO allows. The long pull should be about 6-6.5 lbs, and very smooth. The pull from the shorter reset is also very smooth, but about 7.5lbs. So the shorter pull is in fact heavier, but faster. I've not yet had the chance to personally play with one of these, but TO ME anyway, I'd prefer the traditional DA/SA. I have played with a few Sig DAO pistols, and the trigger pull on them was very very smooth, if a bit long.

3. Hmm..as stated above, get the Mecgar 15rd flushfit mags from topgunsupply.com, they are about $20, as opposed to sig factory mags which hold less rounds and cost 50% more.

4. Your X200 should hook right up.

5. Yes, you can convert calibers. To do so, buy a .40 or .357 P229R, the .40 and .357 interchange with just a barrel swap, mag capacity will be 12. Buy a barsto 9mm conversion barrel, and you are good to go on all three calibers. You can NOT convert a 9mm gun to the larger calibers.

6. I'd get a P229 over a USP because the mags are less expensive, the gun is more ergonomically friendly, you can use any picatinny standard accessory, and I like Sigs more than HK's. The USP fullsize is a great gun, but I don't like the way the compacts feel at all. Even the railed P229 should CCW easier than a USPc.

7. www.ordnanceoutsellers.com

Go over to sigforum.com and post this, you might get a better response directly comparing the Sig to the Glock, and the Sig to the HK.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:24:23 PM EDT
I started my handgun obsession with a Glock 17. Then I bought my first SIG (a P229 in .40S&W). Ever since that P229, I haven't looked back (except to buy an occasional Glock, because they're still pretty damn sweethe
2. The DAK trigger is something interesting. It does away the the decocker and creates a double action only trigger. The difference is that instead of the 10lbs. trigger pull, it's now something like 6.5lbs. The trigger is still as long as a regular SIG DA trigger pull, but it's light and smooth.
Like you said, same trigger pull every time. I believe there is another feature for the DAK. Something like an 8lbs. trigger pull from a half-cock. I'm not sure if thats true or not, but I believe that I read something about that. On my brother's P229DAK, I can't tell a difference. Yes, this pistol allows for double strike capability, but if you're used to tap-rack-bang drills, why change that? Overall, I really dig the DAK trigger.

3. The DAK pistols usually come with regular grips, so there is a space between the grip and the rail for the absent decocker. SIGs come with a 1-year warranty. If you have any problems, SIG's customer service has been known to be very helpful.

4. The P229R rail is a standard picatinny rail. Unless I'm mistaken, so do Glocks. You should be able to use your light on both pistols.

5. If you get a P229R in 9mm, you're stuck with the 9mm caliber. It's not such a bad problem, but you are limited. If you get the .40S&W, you can switch to 357SIG with just a barrel swap (and vice versa -- 357SIG to .40S&W). If you get a .40S&W you can also buy an aftermarket barrel to shoot 9mm. I've heard that many buy barsto barrels and are very happy with them.

6. I feel the ergonomics on the SIG are better than that of the USPc. Don't get me wrong, I love both pistols, but I feel the SIG feels better in the hand. Unless you're getting the LEM trigger group on a USPc, the SIG trigger is much nicer (in my opinion).

7. I bought a SIG CPO P229R in .40S&W from Ordnance Outsellers and a SIG CPO P229R in 9mm from Mactec Enterprises. Both were very easy to deal with. Since I was lucky enough to get the CPO pistols, I paid less than $500 each. Unfortunately, neither has the DAK trigger. For that, you're going to be spending more (I have yet to see a CPO DAK pistol, and I'm looking!have
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/TannerBoyl/HK/100-0059_IMG.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/TannerBoyl/HK/100-0055_IMG.jpg
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:08:31 PM EDT
1. If you are going to carry IWB, I won't recommend SIG 229. The slide is too extremely thick.

3. If you are used to the Glock trigger, any SA will take some learning curve. BTW, that Glock will be the best one to stick IWB out of the three you mentioned--SIG/USPc/Glock

5. .357 SIG barrel available

6. HK USPc over SIG if you are planning on carrying IWB. I refuse to carry a fullsize SIG IWB, no never ever. USPc also offers condition 1 carry and is very versatile on method of carry condition. The HE finish is better than SIG nitron finish. Ask me how I know

Overall, if you are looking for a IWB carry pistol, that G19 is really hard to beat.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:30:05 PM EDT
I bought a 226R DAK and personally loved the smooth trigger pull on it. You will not believe how accurate this pistol is. On the other hand, I did not like the reset on the trigger. I found it to be too slow for follow up shots when double tapping/tripple tapping. I am used to shooting my Glocks and my DA/SA pistols and I am much faster with them than the DAK. I traded in my 226 DAK for a traditional DA/SA 226 and am much happier. But on a positive note the DAK trigger pull is VERY nice and smooth.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:28:03 PM EDT

folks,
your insightful comments are very much appreciated. you've given me a whole bunch of good info/links and i'll try to digest it all so i can ask some more questions.

thanks
ar-jedi

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:55:45 PM EDT
I'd like to politly disagree with the opinion that Sig P229's aren't good for IWB carry. I carry my P228 every day IWB, and its fine. My new P229 is only slightly wider in the slide, fits all the same holsters, so I can say with confidence that I could IWB carry it happily all the live long day. The holster makes the biggest difference for IWB carry I believe, I use a Galco suede holster with a C-clip, and it works great for me.

Let us know what you decide to get, and post pics!
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