Posted: 10/27/2015 4:41:29 AM EDT
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The new P225 has a stainless steel slide with short extractor and it does not use P225 mags. Personally I don't see the appeal. If I wanted a P225 though I would buy a West Germany P225. Better than that though I will just keep using my W.G. P228 pistols instead with the 15 round Mec-Gar mags.
On another note. What is with SIG again? Why do they not learn? The now have a P229 Carry which is a P224/P229 combo, The M11-A1 which is a P229 with P228 grips, and now the P225 with a SS slide. WTH??? These guys are not SIG owners that for sure. I wish they would hire some people that understand what we want. *See below. • More non railed pistols • More Stainless Steel Frames • Switch back to the short extractors • Switch back to machined parts (no MIM) • Better QA |
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The new P225 has a stainless steel slide with short extractor and it does not use P225 mags. Personally I don't see the appeal. If I wanted a P225 though I would buy a West Germany P225. Better than that though I will just keep using my W.G. P228 pistols instead with the 15 round Mec-Gar mags. On another note. What is with SIG again? Why do they not learn? The now have a P229 Carry which is a P224/P229 combo, The M11-A1 which is a P229 with P228 grips, and now the P225 with a SS slide. WTH??? These guys are not SIG owners that for sure. I wish they would hire some people that understand what we want. *See below. • More non railed pistols • More Stainless Steel Frames • Switch back to the short extractors • Switch back to machined parts (no MIM) • Better QA Lol. ok. Most of the people working at SIG are serious gun guys, including their product management and development guys. They also have a very popular training academy and lean on their instructors heavily for product development. The stainless slides are better than the folded carbon, the alloy frames are lighter, engineering has determined the long extractors are more reliable for many applications, MIM is used in the space shuttle so I'm fairly certain it works (yes there has been crappy MIM in the gun industry but its the quality of the process that is the issue not the issue itself). Just because YOU don't want what they're selling doesn't mean the market doesn't mean their products aren't selling as fast as they make them. There is something to be said for the old guns, but you won't see them again. Nostalgia aside, the newer guns are objectively better. The biggest problem with SIG is not their products, designs, or testing. It's treating their employees poorly and destroying morale. |
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Lol. ok. Most of the people working at SIG are serious gun guys, including their product management and development guys. They also have a very popular training academy and lean on their instructors heavily for product development. The stainless slides are better than the folded carbon, the alloy frames are lighter, engineering has determined the long extractors are more reliable for many applications, MIM is used in the space shuttle so I'm fairly certain it works (yes there has been crappy MIM in the gun industry but its the quality of the process that is the issue not the issue itself). Just because YOU don't want what they're selling doesn't mean the market doesn't mean their products aren't selling as fast as they make them. There is something to be said for the old guns, but you won't see them again. Nostalgia aside, the newer guns are objectively better. The biggest problem with SIG is not their products, designs, or testing. It's treating their employees poorly and destroying morale. Quoted:
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The new P225 has a stainless steel slide with short extractor and it does not use P225 mags. Personally I don't see the appeal. If I wanted a P225 though I would buy a West Germany P225. Better than that though I will just keep using my W.G. P228 pistols instead with the 15 round Mec-Gar mags. On another note. What is with SIG again? Why do they not learn? The now have a P229 Carry which is a P224/P229 combo, The M11-A1 which is a P229 with P228 grips, and now the P225 with a SS slide. WTH??? These guys are not SIG owners that for sure. I wish they would hire some people that understand what we want. *See below. • More non railed pistols • More Stainless Steel Frames • Switch back to the short extractors • Switch back to machined parts (no MIM) • Better QA Lol. ok. Most of the people working at SIG are serious gun guys, including their product management and development guys. They also have a very popular training academy and lean on their instructors heavily for product development. The stainless slides are better than the folded carbon, the alloy frames are lighter, engineering has determined the long extractors are more reliable for many applications, MIM is used in the space shuttle so I'm fairly certain it works (yes there has been crappy MIM in the gun industry but its the quality of the process that is the issue not the issue itself). Just because YOU don't want what they're selling doesn't mean the market doesn't mean their products aren't selling as fast as they make them. There is something to be said for the old guns, but you won't see them again. Nostalgia aside, the newer guns are objectively better. The biggest problem with SIG is not their products, designs, or testing. It's treating their employees poorly and destroying morale. I belong to several forums and facebook pages and the majority of us hard core long time SIG owners will agree with what I am saying. I know we are no longer their target demographics but what I am saying is the truth, like it or not. BTW, how long have you worked for SIG? |
I haven't worked there for a few years and have no desire to go back. 
I'm also a forum and FB group junky. I see the same wailing an gnashing of teeth you do. I also know that if gun companies listened to every technophobic gun owner with an internet connection the industry would have had no new products in decades. I'm just pointing out that nostalgia doesn't sell new guns. No company in any industry survives by offering up the same unchanged model of their products year after year. Your suggestions are akin to telling toyota to reintroduce and continue indefinite production of the 1980 E70 Corrolla despite the changing market and technological improvements in both materials/engineering and production. I'm also pointing out that your statement they don't have shooters, gun lovers, and SIG fans working for them is patently false and uninformed. |
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When will they make it in that gay rainbow metallic finish? I heard that its about the most durable finish available, but they should have skipped over that entire line. 
The only "good" explanation I ever got for those ridiculous limited edition abortions were they were shopped around to or requested by specific distributors as limited runs. Kinda like what Lipseys does with Glock. However SIG's limited editions were typically hideous. |
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I heard that its about the most durable finish available, but they should have skipped over that entire line.
The only "good" explanation I ever got for those ridiculous limited edition abortions were they were shopped around to or requested by specific distributors as limited runs. Kinda like what Lipseys does with Glock. However SIG's limited editions were typically hideous. Quoted:
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When will they make it in that gay rainbow metallic finish? I heard that its about the most durable finish available, but they should have skipped over that entire line.
The only "good" explanation I ever got for those ridiculous limited edition abortions were they were shopped around to or requested by specific distributors as limited runs. Kinda like what Lipseys does with Glock. However SIG's limited editions were typically hideous. "You know how the walmart parking lot looks after the first rain in a while? I want my gun to look like that" 
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"You know how the walmart parking lot looks after the first rain in a while? I want my gun to look like that" http://parrotheadjeff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/P238-Rbow-detail-L-bty.jpg http://www.conditionforlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Nailed-It.png Quoted:
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When will they make it in that gay rainbow metallic finish? I heard that its about the most durable finish available, but they should have skipped over that entire line.
The only "good" explanation I ever got for those ridiculous limited edition abortions were they were shopped around to or requested by specific distributors as limited runs. Kinda like what Lipseys does with Glock. However SIG's limited editions were typically hideous. "You know how the walmart parking lot looks after the first rain in a while? I want my gun to look like that" http://parrotheadjeff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/P238-Rbow-detail-L-bty.jpg http://www.conditionforlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Nailed-It.png Or the diamond plate finish. Finish the magpul PDW already. 
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I haven't worked there for a few years and have no desire to go back.
I'm also a forum and FB group junky. I see the same wailing an gnashing of teeth you do. I also know that if gun companies listened to every technophobic gun owner with an internet connection the industry would have had no new products in decades. I'm just pointing out that nostalgia doesn't sell new guns. No company in any industry survives by offering up the same unchanged model of their products year after year. Your suggestions are akin to telling toyota to reintroduce and continue indefinite production of the 1980 E70 Corrolla despite the changing market and technological improvements in both materials/engineering and production. I'm also pointing out that your statement they don't have shooters, gun lovers, and SIG fans working for them is patently false and uninformed. I will also agree that they have made some improvements as well but the some of the choices and decisions being made at the upper management levels continues to leaves me scratching my head. Especially when it comes to the various models they have offered and continue to offer. I though maybe they were starting to get it with the new P226 & P229 Legion pistols (marketing aside). We could start another thread just discussing that topic. As for my comment "These guys are not SIG owners that for sure. I wish they would hire some people that understand what we want." was obviously aimed at the upper management levels as well since that is where the decision making process actually becomes implemented. |
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Wow, sounds exactly like the place that I work at...  Quoted:
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The biggest problem with SIG is not their products, designs, or testing. It's treating their employees poorly and destroying morale. Wow, sounds exactly like the place that I work at... its in the German bloodline that's for sure. |
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its in the German bloodline that's for sure. Quoted:
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The biggest problem with SIG is not their products, designs, or testing. It's treating their employees poorly and destroying morale. Wow, sounds exactly like the place that I work at... its in the German bloodline that's for sure. Is it in the Israeli blood? |
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I don't want a handgun without a rail. one of my 2 remaining 1911's is a Colt Rail Gun. I am not one of those rail haters as I have several of both railed and non-railed pistols and each has it's own intended use. It is all about choice though and I know many who would buy an all stainless non-railed P226 exactly like the P226-SL in a heart beat. That includes myself as well. To coin a phrase from a Field of dreams, "If you build it they will come". |
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Quoted: I am not one of those rail haters as I have several of both railed and non-railed pistols and each has it's own intended use. It is all about choice though and I know many who would buy an all stainless non-railed P226 exactly like the P226-SL in a heart beat. That includes myself as well. To coin a phrase from a Field of dreams, "If you build it they will come". Quoted: Quoted: I don't want a handgun without a rail. one of my 2 remaining 1911's is a Colt Rail Gun. I am not one of those rail haters as I have several of both railed and non-railed pistols and each has it's own intended use. It is all about choice though and I know many who would buy an all stainless non-railed P226 exactly like the P226-SL in a heart beat. That includes myself as well. To coin a phrase from a Field of dreams, "If you build it they will come". Lots of people translate personal demand in to public demand.....which is not necessarily the case. |
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Where are you finding the information on the new (re-released) P225..? I'm interested in getting a P225 but I wanted to see what the 2015 version looked like first. Thanks... I posted a thread on it. Osage is taking preorders,but it's not slated to be out for a while. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_14/163380_Picture_info_of_SIG_s_new_P225_re_release____The_P225A.html |
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Is it in the Israeli blood? Quoted:
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The biggest problem with SIG is not their products, designs, or testing. It's treating their employees poorly and destroying morale. Wow, sounds exactly like the place that I work at... its in the German bloodline that's for sure. Is it in the Israeli blood? LOL. Nice. |
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Where are you finding the information on the new (re-released) P225..? I'm interested in getting a P225 but I wanted to see what the 2015 version looked like first. Thanks... Here is a link to the Osage County Guns blog page regarding the new stainless slide P225. SIG P225 |
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I'm intrigued. I had a P6 that I stupidly sold, and have been trying to find a decent one ever since, but the ones I can find are all too expensive now for the condition they're in. I'll spring for a new 225 instead of paying $700 for a beat up P6 any day. I wish it was an old school slide, but that doesn't bother me too much. I expect I'll have one of these in my safe within a year. ETA: That, or maybe this will help drive the P6 prices back down some so I can find one priced reasonably again. |
| My Sig complaint is parts. Buy a Sig and try and get parts . Same BS every time. Not available now but someday. Never. Sig is the worst on providing parts for their guns. I have a lot of local dealers ther have either stopped selling Sig pistols or reduced the choices to 2 or 3 compared to 20 or 30 of other pistol manufacturers. |
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My Sig complaint is parts. Buy a Sig and try and get parts . Same BS every time. Not available now but someday. Never. Sig is the worst on providing parts for their guns. I have a lot of local dealers ther have either stopped selling Sig pistols or reduced the choices to 2 or 3 compared to 20 or 30 of other pistol manufacturers. Agree. Look at Top Gun Supply. How many SIG parts are out of stock. Some have been out of stock for over a year. I love my MK-25, but the SIGs I am buying now are the old West German ones. They just work. |
| I bought my 1st SIG brand new nearly 3 decades ago and over the years I have made a few other purchases of SIG pistols as well. I have been very selective so I have been pretty pleased with most of them but the workmanship & quality of the old SIGs is just unbeatable. That goes for some of the newer German SIGs as well. The fit and finish of the Triple serial number German pistols was & is just outstanding. I picked up another couple last week and when completely disassembling and cleaning them up I was reminded how well the machining and fit was on each and every part. The parts were so smooth that they cleaned right up and there was no need to polish anything before reassembling them. In all fairness though, I guess it wold cost us a fortune to buy a brand new pistol of this quality in this day and age. |
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Lol. ok. Most of the people working at SIG are serious gun guys, including their product management and development guys. They also have a very popular training academy and lean on their instructors heavily for product development. The stainless slides are better than the folded carbon, the alloy frames are lighter, engineering has determined the long extractors are more reliable for many applications, MIM is used in the space shuttle so I'm fairly certain it works (yes there has been crappy MIM in the gun industry but its the quality of the process that is the issue not the issue itself). Just because YOU don't want what they're selling doesn't mean the market doesn't mean their products aren't selling as fast as they make them. There is something to be said for the old guns, but you won't see them again. Nostalgia aside, the newer guns are objectively better. The biggest problem with SIG is not their products, designs, or testing. It's treating their employees poorly and destroying morale. Quoted:
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The new P225 has a stainless steel slide with short extractor and it does not use P225 mags. Personally I don't see the appeal. If I wanted a P225 though I would buy a West Germany P225. Better than that though I will just keep using my W.G. P228 pistols instead with the 15 round Mec-Gar mags. On another note. What is with SIG again? Why do they not learn? The now have a P229 Carry which is a P224/P229 combo, The M11-A1 which is a P229 with P228 grips, and now the P225 with a SS slide. WTH??? These guys are not SIG owners that for sure. I wish they would hire some people that understand what we want. *See below. • More non railed pistols • More Stainless Steel Frames • Switch back to the short extractors • Switch back to machined parts (no MIM) • Better QA Lol. ok. Most of the people working at SIG are serious gun guys, including their product management and development guys. They also have a very popular training academy and lean on their instructors heavily for product development. The stainless slides are better than the folded carbon, the alloy frames are lighter, engineering has determined the long extractors are more reliable for many applications, MIM is used in the space shuttle so I'm fairly certain it works (yes there has been crappy MIM in the gun industry but its the quality of the process that is the issue not the issue itself). Just because YOU don't want what they're selling doesn't mean the market doesn't mean their products aren't selling as fast as they make them. There is something to be said for the old guns, but you won't see them again. Nostalgia aside, the newer guns are objectively better. The biggest problem with SIG is not their products, designs, or testing. It's treating their employees poorly and destroying morale. Joe, I agree with most of your explanations, but the larger extractors look hideous, and not even my instructor at my SIG Classic Pistols Armorer's class felt the change was really necessary. But he eluded the change came out of engineering. Plus a new punch with a flat on one side is needed to remove the pin that holds the new longer extractor in place. Of course, it's not included in Sig's Armorer tool kit, which I own. I have a son who is an engineer, and every new batch of them feel the need to leave their footprint on the latest product development. Not meaning that the new process is a necessary improvement. MIM, well that is a different story. I been in the machine trade for over 40 years. MIM used to be called "powder metal manufacturing" or "sintered metal". It's just metal powder, blended with a binding material, put in a mold and pressed together under very high pressure to form a part. But it's the heat treating that defines the part's enduring strength. Today it's called Metal Injected Molding MIM Defined |
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I'm aware of what MIM is, not sure what your point is. My point is...MIM is not all bad. And many people bash Sig and several other firearms manufactures for the use of MIM part vs parts that were once made with traditional manufacturing methods. That is all I was trying to convey. |
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My point is...MIM is not all bad. And many people bash Sig and several other firearms manufactures for the use of MIM part vs parts that were once made with traditional manufacturing methods. That is all I was trying to convey. Quoted:
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I'm aware of what MIM is, not sure what your point is. My point is...MIM is not all bad. And many people bash Sig and several other firearms manufactures for the use of MIM part vs parts that were once made with traditional manufacturing methods. That is all I was trying to convey. Gotcha. That was my point too. Usually in the gun industry, MIM is noticed when substituted for previously machined parts and the resulting geometry changes are what causes the issues, not the process. |
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I think the point is obvious. It is a part formed from powder rather than from solid barstock steel. They reason for the switch is a cost saving measure it is surely not to offer better part. If MIM is so strong, then why do they need to add the cross bar to the locking insert just for one example (user pic below because retailers don't show it)? The people selling these parts hide the fact that it has one so I can not even find one to show what I am talking about. They hide it just like every new pistol for sale hides the long extractor as if they are ashamed of it and knowing that they will have more difficulty selling them.
The bottom line, better or less money to produce? Let's be honest! MIM 
Machined 
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