Posted: 9/8/2013 6:46:38 AM EDT
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I noticed an odd issue with my duty weapon the other day, and wanted to ask the Sig gurus if they knew what was causing it. Duty weapon is a P228, used only with Sig branded magazines. The weapon is obviously used, but seems to be in decent shape. The magazines are old (most of mine are stamped 9/2004), but we have a new batch of mags on order to replace all of our current mags.
I was practicing my reloads Thursday evening (I’m trying to get into the habit of dry firing and reloading for at least a few minutes a day) when I noticed the following: when I slammed a fully loaded magazine into the magazine well, the slide would go forward of its own accord, chambering a round. This only happened when I really moved quickly and seated a magazine with a lot of force; the slide stays to the rear if I deliberately and slowly seat the magazine. I tried to repeat it several times, and every time I seated the mag with authority, the slide went forward and a round was chambered. When I noticed this, I was only using one mag over and over. Yesterday, out of curiosity, I tried the experiment with all of my issued mags. When loaded, they all caused the slide to go forward and chamber a round when I slammed it home. I decided to try it with empty magazines; out of about 15 tries, the slide only went forward once when I slammed home an empty magazine. I plan on bringing the issue to the attention of my weapons guy once I get to work tomorrow, but I wanted to see if anyone had encountered this issue before. So, my questions are as follows: 1.Is this a magazine issue? 2.If not, is this an internal issue with the pistol, ie, mag release? 3.Has anyone encountered this issue before? Note: the last time I fired the pistol was ten days before I noticed this; my shop had qual/pro fire day and I put 100 rounds through the gun with no malfunctions and no slide going forward without me deliberately doing so. Thanks in advance for the help! |
| The magazine spring is what cases the slide release lever to engage when the mag is empty, in turn cause the slide to lock open. I tried your experiment with a loaded mag and could not duplicate your results. Your mag springs are weak. While the weakness might not affect the chambering of ammo, yet, I would suggest replacing the springs before any loading malfunctions occur. The time it does occur might be the time you can least afford it to happen. |
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Weak mag springs make sense. As I say, all my issued mags are close to 20 years old, and they have all seen a lot of use. I'll have to see what happens with newer mags.
I can understand it being slightly beneficial to have the slide go forward automatically, if it weren't for my muscle memory to slingshot the slide after loading. Thanks for the replies, gents! |
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I doubt it is weak magazine springs, my new as well as several year old Meggars do it with my 226s. I also see it happening with Tripp magazines in my 1911s. Tripp springs are not weak.
What is happening is the right amount of shaking from slamming in a magazine will shake the slide stop off the slide stop shelf of the magazine follower. No different than operating the slide release. |
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Quoted:
I doubt it is weak magazine springs, my new as well as several year old Meggars do it with my 226s. I also see it happening with Tripp magazines in my 1911s. Tripp springs are not weak. What is happening is the right amount of shaking from slamming in a magazine will shake the slide stop off the slide stop shelf of the magazine follower. No different than operating the slide release. I agree with this one. Even my brand new guns, or new magazines in old guns, do it if I'm rough enough. |
| I had a M&P45 that would do this if I "slapped" in the magazine or hit the bottom out it was inserted. Slide would close all on its own. Never had any of my SIGs do this and I have "slapped" the magazine in hard many times but does not mean it can not happen with yours. |
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One other possibility, if the pistol has never had any of the springs replaced, it may be time to replace some of them. The recoil spring puts the rearward tension on the slide. If it is pretty weak, you could potentially wind up with the same type of occurrence.
Replacing the springs that break down the fastest will only cost about $25 bucks for the pistol, about $8 per magazine, plus a few minutes of your armorer's time. Here is a repost from another forum about spring replacement: The following is SIG SAUER's current parts replacement schedule (numbers of rounds), with some comments: Barrel: If the pistol exhibits keyholing or unacceptable accuracy. Decocking lever spring: 10,000 Extractor: 20,000 Extractor spring: 20,000 Firing pin: 20,000 Firing pin spring: 20,000 Magazine spring: When magazine fails to lock the slide open. * Recoil spring: 5,000 † Roll pins for breechblock retention (pins, HD): 5000 Safety lock spring: 20,000 Slide catch lever spring: 10,000 Takedown lever: 20,000 Trigger bar spring: 10,000 Mainspring (hammer spring): SIG SAUER evidently makes no formal recommendation about the mainspring, but customer service advised that guns with 40,000 rounds are still igniting their ammunition with the original spring. If ignition problems do develop and can't be determined to be due to other reasons, the obvious course would be to try a new mainspring. * It is recommended to replace the magazine spring when ammunition is not held securely. This can occur before slide lock failures. † Early recommendations were that the recoil spring be replaced after 3000 rounds, and that's what I follow. |
| It is not a bad thing as Glock pistols will do it prettty regularly. On your Sig though it's probably a weak recoil spring. Put a new one on and it probably won't do it again. Also if this is a work gun have the armorer or yourself replace all the springs, including your mazine springs. Cheapest way to get a brand new gun. |
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Quoted:
Thanks for all the input, everybody. I feel a little bit better hearing that other people have had similar problems; I've just never seen it on any of my other pistols. I'm just curious if it still happens with new magazines/new magazine springs. I have an old 228 and it does it too. |
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Quoted:
Not a problem. An advantage. Until it is not an 'advantage'...as in maybe one out of 15-25 insertions, the slide goes forward too soon and does NOT load a round. Seen it happen often enough that I won't have an auto that will do it routinely. (Yes, if you slam hard enough at the right angle they will all do it once in a great while) Could be a worn slide stop catch among the other possibilities. I would replace springs first according to Sig's maintenance schedule. If it still does it, troubleshoot from there or send it back to Sig. JMO |
| I would replace your slide catch lever spring and the slide catch lever. It makes no sense that it would be magazine related. I own three m11 (the real ones) and 2 228's. One has thousands of rounds through it and it does not do this. It is not supposed to do this either, the two things that can cause this problem are the spring and the lever. |
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UPDATE:
Wanted to give you guys an update now that I have had the time to type up a somewhat intelligent entry. I spoke to my weapons custodian last Monday, and he confirmed that most of our P228’s do the same thing when you really seat a magazine like you mean it. He wasn’t overly concerned with the issue, and we experimented with his duty gun and a couple others we had in inventory, and they all did the same thing. I did get a batch of new magazines out of the deal, to replace the ones I was first issued, so some good came out of the deal. Thanks everybody, for their contributions! |