Posted: 3/24/2010 2:27:15 PM EDT
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With hiking/camping season here I'd like to get a new pistol more appropriate for use against large animals (mainly bear). I usually just take my HK45C, though I know this isn't the best caliber for the job that I pray it will never have to do. I've also never been much of a revolver guy and I certainly can't see buying one just for hiking. Looking into the 10MM it seems to be the best bang, no pun intended, in a semi-auto package. I do have a few questions though.
1. I have small hands. Stock Glocks have never fit my hand with the exception of the 26/27. Everything else feels gargantuan. Would I be best off buying a G20 and having a grip redux done or buying a G20SF from the get go? Which is traditionally smaller (grip redux vs. stock SF) and can the G21SF have further grip redux done or is it maxed out? Any word on Gen 4 20/20SFs with the removable backstraps yet? 2. I always hear about the "unsupported chamber" in 40/45s, is the 10MM also not fully supported? Has it been an issue with this rather stout cartridge? I would be running full power loads like Double Tap/Buffalo Bore and some my own reloads which I tend to load at what would typically be found in a defensive load. Thanks in advance, this might be my first Glock. |
 did you ever think of a G29sf with a 15r mag with mag sleeve. i think that may be a slimmer package as the lower grip with the hump is gone. also the lone wolf ported barrel ($115)will extend the barrel to slightly longer than the G20and also control muzzle flip , making it more controllable and take some of the stress off your less than perfect grip. i'm in the process of doing this now. i think it gives all of the G20 advantages and increased versatility with the various configurations available!
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Both of you bring up some good points. I need to get down to my local shop and handle one, I believe they have a 21SF in stock which is the same frame correct? Maybe I exaggerated a bit on the size of my hands vs. frame, but I can tell you that with a Weaver style grip I cannot get to the mag release without rotating from my firing grip. The 10MM, though not ideal, should work if called upon. Here in the NE, the black bear don't get terribly large and attacks are few and far between.
All the talk about the 29SF has got me to thinking that I may just grab a 20 and send it to someplace like Bowie Tactical to have the short grip mod and grip redux done from the get go. Then I have a full size slide on a sub-compact grip and I can always use a grip extension if needed as well as a longer barrel down the road. This allows me to obtain another easily concealable carry gun when not in the woods. Thanks for all the help so far. |
 the G29 barrel is only about .8 inch shorter than the G20. with the lonewolf ported barrel it is about .2 inch longer than the G20.ballistically these differences are extremely minute! the pronounced hump at the bottom of the grip is the problem area for many as it prevents the meat of some hands from wrapping the rear of the grip.a smaller gripped 10 mm in the same price range would be the EAA witness with the choice of a polymer or metal frame
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the G29 barrel is only about .8 inch shorter than the G20. with the lonewolf ported barrel it is about .2 inch longer than the G20.ballistically these differences are extremely minute! the pronounced hump at the bottom of the grip is the problem area for many as it prevents the meat of some hands from wrapping the rear of the grip.a smaller gripped 10 mm in the same price range would be the EAA witness with the choice of a polymer or metal frame
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how does you hand fit a standard glock G17,G19 etc? for me my thumb just barely touches the edge of the middle finger knuckle, similar to costeve's grip on his G20.|
Can't speak for the 20sf but the 20fs is not for small hands. That being said I really like my 20fs, plan on picking up a sf down the road though. Coworker liked it so much he bought the 29fs. Both guns are a blast to shoot. I know this really isn't the correct form but if you want something in 10 and have small hands you might want to consider a 10mm 1911 or a smith and wesson 610 revolver. The 610 revolver is very light on recoil compaired to other 10mm guns because of its size and weight.
Picture of my g20fs, 610 6 inch, and colt delta elite. Need to add my 1006 smith and wesson that I picked up last week(wish they still made these). 
Another good option would be a 44mag revolver. Hell maybe a 460 smith and wesson. Shoot 45lc, 454 and 460 rounds. I'm sure you could find something in its loads that would be capable for most of what you would find. |
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Again, lots of good points. I have thought about a 10MM 1911, but I'm not sure if the funds will provide for such. In addition, I've converted my pistol collection to DAO to avoid safety levers/decocking etc.
I like the HK LEM trigger the best and I also find the stock Glock 5.5lbs trigger equatable. I've looked at EAA pistols also, but I just can't seem to warm up to them. I have nothing against the company or their product, other than the fact that it does not do anything for me. As for revolvers, that's kind of my last resort. Should I go the revolver route I would probably get the S&W model 327 Night Guard 2.5" in .357Mag. Comes with Big Dot Tritium front sight, 8-shot Stainless cylinder on a scandium frame. |
| COSteve and Gmor- I've been looking at my grip here on HK45C and I find that my thumb about halfway covers my nail on my middle finger, yet I shoot her damn well and do not lose control between shots. I've never really checked using this method on 19/23, but I will check this weekend on a friend's. In the past I've always chosen pistols based on whether my thumb can get to the mag release, this might not be the best strategy, but it does seem to work fairly well. I will also try and get my hands around that 21SF this weekend, can someone verify the 20SF is the same frame? |
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i grip a G17 exactly like costeve grips his G20 and i still feel the G20sf a bit large for one handed shooting, although with a 2 handed grip it's ok. i think the G20sf still can be minimized as there is still a large air space in the backstrap. the 4th gen guns smallest grip panel would probably be the same as the 3rd gen SF and the other 2 inserts for huge monkey paws! once again there are 2 grip issues, top circumferance and that damn hump, which can be addressed with the G29sf with G20 mag with sleeve. top grip circumferance is dictated by the cartridge/mag size although there is propably some mimimization possible.
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| Rather than opening a new thread, are pre-ban 10MM 15rd mags available? Were they in production before the ban? I'm only asking b/c I'm in a ban state so if I got the G20 I'd be stuck with neutered 10 rounders unless I could find some prebans. If they aren't around this may be another reason to go with the G29 or G20 w/ short grip conversion. |
 sorry to here you are trapped behind enemy lines and can't get supplies! your best bet would be to ask around at gun shows, but i don't know how to determine date of mfg. during the ban they were LE marked. maybe offer to buy at a generous price from someone in a free state who can resupply. sorry i can't help you all my mags are post ban.
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| Update: Got my mitts on a 21SF yesterday and she feels just just fine except I have to rotate my grip to drop the mag. This shouldn't be a problem as I see JP makes a larger release button and Bowie Tactical can fit a rounded release that extends back a little ways, both viable options. Hoping to grab a 20SF in the next few weeks. I also found that preban mags are available so that's another plus. Thanks a lot guys. |
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Quoted: Update: Got my mitts on a 21SF yesterday and she feels just just fine except I have to rotate my grip to drop the mag. This shouldn't be a problem as I see JP makes a larger release button and Bowie Tactical can fit a rounded release that extends back a little ways, both viable options. Hoping to grab a 20SF in the next few weeks. I also found that preban mags are available so that's another plus. Thanks a lot guys. I know what you mean about the mag release so I got a T.H.E. extended mag release for my G20/21L.  It sticks out a bit but I've not had any issues with it hooking on anything and it allows me to drop the mag without moving my hand position at all.  |
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Quoted:
Ideally for a proper grip, one should be able to touch one's middle finger's 1st knuckle with the tip of one's thumb as shown below, however many people feel fine with a grip where their thumb won't come close to touching even the tip of the middle finger. I can't even do this with my 17 or 19. 
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