Posted: 6/22/2009 5:37:37 AM EDT
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I went ot the range Saturday and decided to test the mag I was carrying with. I wanted to see if I needed to use my gun how would it have performed.
It was loaded with 185 +p Remington Golden Sabres. First two rounds went bang but FTF on the 3rd round. I dropped the mag and racked it and looked at the round that failed. Nothing that I could see with my eyes was abnormal. I loaded the round back into a mag and it shot fine. Has there been anybody else that has had any issue with this ammo? Im a bit discouraged since I had no issues ever with this gun through 400rnds. Should I switch to a 230GR round? Let me know what you guys think. I know you are suposed to run some (Personal Protection) ammo through the gun to see what it likes, but money does not allow that sometimes. Thanks for any info you can lend. Bob |
I had a few failures to extract with my G36 using 230gr Golden Sabers. I got a bunch of boxes from CTD for about $15 each. Their comment "don't ask how we got these so cheap ... but we're passing on the savings to you!". My guess is that they were rejects. Here's how one looks:
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Well this is why you HAVE TO run a fair amount of a chosen defensive ammo through your own pistol, to confirm reliability with that particular load.
Not every gun is going to function 100% with every type of load. It's just the way it is. I've never had any problems with that or other Golden Saber loads in .45ACP, but that's with a 1911. I know what you mean about the expense of defensive ammo making it difficult to do this..................but it has to be done. Shoot at least 100 rnds of a chosen load, to confirm reliability. Maybe do it 25 rnds at a time............here and there. Until you've reached that point, carry it with whatever else you've put through it that it runs well with. |
| Maybe you rode the slide forward and did not let it slam into full battery. My dad tends to do that when he uses my Glocks he rides the slide just a little and then lets it slam and it causes a misfeed. I am trying to break him of this habit the way I get him to load is lock the slide and then load the mag and make him unlock the slide so no human hands on the slide during charging. |
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I have been carrying 185 gr Golden Sabers for about 8 or 9 years, and have never had a FTF, with well over 6000+ through the gun, probably 1000 Golden Sabers. I would think possible limp wrist, since the rest of the mag went fine. Limp wrist was my other thought. But I just dont recall doing that. As for riding the slide, it was on the 3rd round of a 10rd mag. I guess im just a limp wristed pansy..... 
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Well, good idea to field test the piece and ammo that you may hope will save your life someday. In this instance do you mean fail to fire or fail to feed? Assuming it's a feed problem, I can see how a lighter recoiling round combined with perhaps a new gun and a light grip might add up to get ya if all the conditions were just right. There is something sound about the idea of running several hundred rounds (or a thousand) through your pistol before considering it to be ready. 230 gr bargain hardball will do just fine. My advice is, once it's broken in, to find a type and weight of ammo your pistol likes and buy about 500 rounds of it. Shoot up several hundred in training and keep a couple hundred for maintenance. I shoot and carry a G21sf and have chosen the Federal HST 230gr for it. Cycles fine and shoots straight; got a good deal at Ammunition To Go awhile back. To invest in a good pistol then scrimp when it comes down to training and proofing the combination begs the question, what price is one's life worth? |
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I have been carrying 185 gr Golden Sabers for about 8 or 9 years, and have never had a FTF, with well over 6000+ through the gun, probably 1000 Golden Sabers. I would think possible limp wrist, since the rest of the mag went fine. Limp wrist was my other thought. But I just dont recall doing that. As for riding the slide, it was on the 3rd round of a 10rd mag. I guess im just a limp wristed pansy..... Hey, don't be so hard on yourself, little camper! 
Hell, I even limp wrist it once in a while, I just try to hide it when it happens! (I coughed when I pulled the trigger, or a bug flew in my face, or etc...) 
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I know you are suposed to run some (Personal Protection) ammo through the gun to see what it likes, but money does not allow that sometimes. Be thankful you didn't "need" it to work for you. The price of a couple hundred rounds to make sure everything functions is a small price to pay. |
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I have been carrying 185 gr Golden Sabers for about 8 or 9 years, and have never had a FTF, with well over 6000+ through the gun, probably 1000 Golden Sabers. I would think possible limp wrist, since the rest of the mag went fine. Limp wrist was my other thought. But I just dont recall doing that. As for riding the slide, it was on the 3rd round of a 10rd mag. I guess im just a limp wristed pansy..... Any GLOCK malfunction has to be related to user error. 
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Well, good idea to field test the piece and ammo that you may hope will save your life someday. In this instance do you mean fail to fire or fail to feed? Assuming it's a feed problem, I can see how a lighter recoiling round combined with perhaps a new gun and a light grip might add up to get ya if all the conditions were just right. There is something sound about the idea of running several hundred rounds (or a thousand) through your pistol before considering it to be ready. 230 gr bargain hardball will do just fine. My advice is, once it's broken in, to find a type and weight of ammo your pistol likes and buy about 500 rounds of it. Shoot up several hundred in training and keep a couple hundred for maintenance. I shoot and carry a G21sf and have chosen the Federal HST 230gr for it. Cycles fine and shoots straight; got a good deal at Ammunition To Go awhile back. To invest in a good pistol then scrimp when it comes down to training and proofing the combination begs the question, what price is one's life worth? Trust me, I agree there is no price too large to make sure your protecting your life with the right ammo. Unfortuantely I took a 15% pay cut and things are tight. Ammo aint cheap as all you know. Im really thinking this is a lighter load, limp wrist issue. Im gonna move to 230gr as that is all I have shot through her besides the 185 sabres. |
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I've never tried anything as light as 185 gr. in my G30. Only 230 grain loads, and they've all worked perfectly. YMMV. Yeah I have never had any issue with 230 gr ammo. This is the only failure I have ever had in this gun. The problem I have found with 230 gr. HP ammo in my G30 is they don't expand reliably. I have done some testing on this in the past, but I am no expert. It stems from the shorter barrel, and slower velocity of the 230 gr. round. Both of those factors together seem to effect expansion quite a bit. I have shot into water jugs, ballistic gelatin, and even a swimming pool, using 230 gr Hydra-shoks, 230 gr Golden Sabers, and 185 gr Golden Sabers to come to my conclusions. Sorry, this was a long time ago, before I had a digital camera, so I don't have pics. Shooting into those mediums, neither of the 230 gr loads expanded all that much, if at all. That coupled with the expansion cavity getting gummed up with clothing fibers if used in a self-defense situation, could almost act like a FMJ round, and not expand at all. While testing the 185 gr rounds, I noticed that they expanded much better, and much more reliably, in all mediums. There was a down side though, there was much more jacket seperation than in the 230 gr loads. I was told that this was because of the added velocity. Also, this was about 12 years ago, so I know that bullet tech has changed since then. All of the rounds functioned flawlessly though. As always YMMV. As I said I am no expert, and my testing probably wasn't the best testing methodology in the world, but I don't think it was too bad for just some off the cuff, poor man's testing testing. |
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I would favor proven reliability over possible expansion. For some pistols I am not willing to spend the money on premium ammo to prove it, so for those pistols I just load with what I practice with, hardball. For the others I am still using Federal Hydrashocks because that is what I spent money on proving in them many years ago. Although there are probably better hollowpoint designs out there it is not worth it to me to spend yet more money trying out another brand of HP. If you can't afford to shoot a couple of hundred Golden Sabre or some other alternative ammo, then you should carry with your hardball practice ammo. reliability and familiarity with POI is far better than marginal expansion. Few pistol bullet designs will both penetrate and expand significantly under real world conditions of clothing, barriers, etc. Some may but no guarantee at relatively low velocities. Accuracy and dependable cycling would be far more important. Especially in .45, do you really need expansion with that fat boy? |