Posted: 4/26/2008 3:04:17 AM EDT
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I have been a long time Glock owner, and am familiar with all of the controversy surrounding the Glock 22, and to some extent, the G23. Matter of fact, I have owned a 2nd gen G22C and currently own a 3rd gen G22 and G23. Both have been very satisfactory in terms of reliability/accuracy/durability. That being said, I have some concerns. I have to purchase my own LE duty weapon and the list of approved weapons is very, very, very short. No HK/Sig, no 9mm's. Its pretty much a G21/G21SF or G22/G23. My concern is with the latest issues surrounding G22's and various issues, as reported by a few different agencies. The things I have been hearing/reading are cases of too much slide velocity, disruptive harmonics and even more failures when using lights, primarily Surefire X200's. It seems that in response to this, Glock has modified the frame of the latest G22's. I have had good luck with my Glock .40's but I feel like I have had a little more trouble with them than my 9x19 and .45 ACP models. My current G22 is a 2004 manufacture and my G23 is a 2005 model year. Since I will be working as a peace officer, the stakes are much,much higher for me. While I am not a G22 hater, I do feel like it has been among the more problematic models for Glock and I would much rather carry a G17 for any number of reasons. As an avid shooter, I would like to carry the gun I am the most familar with, which is a G17...usually with a X200 or X300 attached. Thats exactly what I would like to carry on patrol, but since 9mm's are a no-go, the G22 would be the next closest thing. Does anyone know what the letter code is for the G22's with the latest frame design? I know alot of guys will say ammo/shooter is the blame of all G22 failures, but I dont think that explains it every single time. Is there any other modification that has been made, besides the frame, to remedy some of the issues these departments have been having? Any thoughts/feedback on the latest G22 issues/improvements, relating to the Indiana/NJ*IIRC* incidents would be much appreciated. No kb discussion, if we can help it...While I have been wondering about the G22 a little more lately, any gun can KB given the right circumstances. |
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While some will say Glocks are best in 9mm and weren't made for the .40, I would agree only that the .40's have had more issues than the 9mm's in general. This is not to say though that there aren't plenty of .40 Glocks out there that work just as well as the 9mm's with regard to reliability and service life (i.e parts breakage). Almost a year ago, a local PD purchased some 60 new Glocks consisting of mostly G22's, and a handful of G23 and G27's (K series s/n IIRC). They were complaining of FTF and FTE every 100 or so rounds. The pistols were eventually returned to Glock for all new pistols. Glocks answer was that there were some issues with some of the smaller parts that were outsourced and they had resolved it. Glock had exchanged all of these pistols for a NEW batch of pistols (G22's and G23's). After testing a dozen or so pistols, the PD was complaining about the same issues. I know some of these guys and they've been using Glocks for many years and they do know their weapons. The pistols were this time returned to the LE dealer that initially sold them to the PD. I obtained several of the pistols for testing, some already shot and were having problems, and some that were not shot. I had unlimited access to GD 165 g ammo which was the ammo the PD was using for testing. I basically experienced the same things the PD complained about. FTF and FTE, (mainly extract) every 50 -100 rounds. Often the extractor was letting go with 1/2 of the spent casing still in the chamber. The only variable I introduced in my testing was some other mags with older followers and other ammo. I believe the followers on the pistols as they shipped from Glock at that time were #7's. I still had the issues with other mags I tested. I did not have any issues when shooting Lawman 165 g FMJ ammo. Obviously, I documented everything and even took detailed photos. Both Glock and ATK (Speer) got involved, and had determined that a couple of things were going on. #1 Glock had made changes to their manufacturing process with the intent and end result being tighter slide to frame fit. #2 This combined with the GD 165 being a hot round caused the malfunctions. The fix was A. give the pistol a break in period of several hundred or more rounds (this was unacceptable to the PD), OR B. use Speers reduced power GD LE load which they offered in .40. The PD had already returned the pistols and decided to move away from Glocks. I ended up buying 3 of the pistols and have many rounds through them without incident. I believe the rest were sold off to Hortons. I'm uncertain as to what the real issue was with the Indiana G22's. I would like to know whether the pistols had issues from the start, or whether they started developing problems after a while. Anyone have any factual details on this? I hear there are still issues with certain Glock 40's with lights attached. A long time ago when this first happened the cure was going to a different mag spring. I've been recently hearing about this again. Glock did make a change to the s/n plate to the frame a couple of years back. Perhaps that has changed the harmonics of the frame and the light makes it worse. I would be curious if those having light issues all have frames with the newer style s/n plate. Glock makes changes / enhancements all the time. Some obvious, some unknown. The main changes I'm aware of to the .40s have been slightly more case support at the 6:00 position, mag followers (ongoing and I've heard of problems with the new #8's), extended surface / longer locking block to reduce frame flex and peening of slide, S/N plate (all glocks), Full size frames being made in US (now probably most all), to name a few. I've heard rumor that the internal frame (skeleton) was strengthened at some point but I'm not about to saw some frames in half to find out :) My most recent 9mm Glock, a G34 is up to LPM for a s/n prefix. In summary, I have been shooting and working on Glocks since the first ones came out in the US. I would not hesitate to own or trust my life to a Glock in .40 cal. Shoot and know your particular weapon to gain confidence in it. Personally, If I was a LEO, I would rather be issued a G22 than a G17, regardless of what the 9mm weenies say. Perhaps our friend HotRod will chime in? I consider him to be a credible source and an authority on Glock pistols. |
BrianNH I still can't get an answer out of the people I know and EVERYONE is VERY tight lipped about what is happening, but here is my take: The main issue seams to of started when Glock began producing receivers here in the US. Just guessing but because of the EPA, the chemicals used in the injection mold process(receivers) are most likely different here then a crossed the pond and the receivers(to me anyway) seam stiffer/harder then there counter part. Now toss in the new serial number plate(thank you Glockmeister) and a rail mounted light....... As most everyone knows, Glock beefed-up the receivers back in '98 because of the .357SIG and in '02 standardized production using the .357 receiver for all of the 9mm & 40s with very few problems to that point. It was not until the US produced receivers that some larger batches were having problems and (you guessed it) the G22 was the first to use the US made receivers. 
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The ones that just say "Glock Inc, Smyrna, GA" are made in the US. Mostly full sized frames, not sure if they started compact or sub-compact frames in the US yet. The ones that say "Made in Austria - Glock Inc, Smyrna, GA" are made in Austria |
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The issue with certain g22's not cycling correctly with a light has been addressed by my department. Everyone in my department is issued a G22 or a G23 with a TLR-1 light. There have been certain cases that the G22's would not cycle and have a FTF or FTE. Our Armorers contacted glock and were advise to change out the follower of the magazines to #8. My department has change out all our old #4 followers to #8. All issues have been resolved. |
Could you find out two KEY piees of information for us? 1. What is the 3 digit letter code on the prefix? I'm guessing if you were using #4 followers and assuming they were purchased with the pistols the pistols would be at least a couple of years or more old. 2. Are the frames have "Made in Austria" on them , or just Glock Inc. Smyrna GA? More than likely a NON US made frame if the above (#1) is true. |
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I am a peace officer and carry a g22. I currently run a glock light but am about to switch and send my light off to a friend. I have been shooting this same glock for 100k rounds or so, well before I became an officer. I have had 2 malifunctions that were not shooter related. At about 50k rounds the spring to my slide lock/release level broke. I taped it with electrical tape and it worked fine for the next 2 weeks until I got a new part. 2nd, recall issue. The rear frame rails on my glock wore off, were too small or something along those lines. It would not hold hte slide on. It was a recall model, at the time I was not an officer and was just shooting competitively. I got a new frame, life is good. I cannot imagine how a light would effect cycling of the gun/feeding. I have looked and had experience with several lights and I just can't see how that happens. More info please. FYI, I have a 23 and 27. Both work great. prefer the way the 27 shoots over the 23. |
1. As for the 3 digit letter codes, we have guns having "BTA000" to "LGK000." My Department is in the process of converting to upgrading all our glocks to the ones with the rails. It would be very difficult to find out all the prefixes due to the my Department purchases glocks routinely throughout time in relationship to our staffing needs. 2. As for the frames, all our frames are made in Austria. |
It has something to do with the inherent flex issue with polymer guns. With the light attached it changed the natural flex in the gun which threw it off and made them have issues. I am a former LEO (reserve) and I still use my issued G22. I did change the factory barrel with one that has more meat around the chamber area and have had no isses with it. |
What type of ammo are you using? Speer has certain ammo which will supposedly function for pistols with the 11 coil springs and newer followers that are still having problems with the M3 attached. |
I have two 2007 3rd Gen G22's with SS guide rods and TLR-1 lights on both with ZERO issues after 5k rounds each, so what you say makes sense to me. My experience has been in no way researched or tested I always switch out the stock guide rod with SS light or not. My .02.... kevin |
Hey Kevin, could you do me a favor? I'm curious if your G22 frames are marked "Made in Austria, Glock Inc Smyrna GA", or just "Glock Inc, Smryna GA "????? Thanks |
How big is your agency? Any chance of getting another gun approved that meets your specs? I have changed policy at my agency before (300 officers) with a well written memo backed up by supporting references. It's worth a shot, worse thing they can do is say no. The brass at my dept always appreciates a thinker, just because the policy is written the way it is doesn't mean that anyone knowledgeable on firearms wrote it. With that in mind I have carried G22 or G23 for over 10 yrs with no problems. The rail mounted light is definitely an issue though. |