Posted: 6/19/2007 7:09:19 PM EDT
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Alright, i know that this is probably gonna get me some flak for askin, but if u had to choose between getting a g19 or a g23...which would u get? im debating back and forth with myself on which one to get. if i get the 23, im going to get the 9mm conversion barrel for cheaper target shooting, but maybe im wrong in thinking this that it, but i feel like the 40S&W would be a better defensive round. sorry folks, but im lookin for alittle help in makin a decision. im gonna make this my carry gun. |
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Personally I prefer the G23 in .40. I recently shoot a Gen 2 Glock 17 and the difference with the .40 S&W wasn't that big of a deal to me. Hardly noticeable. I see you list that you are in New York so can you get normal capacity (as oppossed to limited) magazines? If so then the G19 only gives you 2 more rounds. If you are limited to 10 round magazines I would suggest you go with the biggest bullet possible. I went with the .40 S&W. No regrets. Good luck. CSP |
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First you have to hit your target. The best way to assist in doing this is to practice. This is where 9mm will save some money. I am not a fan of the muzzle flip from the 23. I can hit my target and would like to practice a lot. With that said I would have no problem with a G19. In all honesty from my experience on the range with steel targets the 40 does appear to hit a little harder and can knock the popper over with less rounds than the 9mm. I know on paper everything is nearly the same. Now you have to choices. 1. get both 2. shoot both and then decide (get both) Mike |
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As the Glock 19 and 23 are identical in size and weight, the decision falls to what caliber one feels most comfortable with for SD. I believe that the 40sw&w Glock 23 is the ideal combination of size, weight, concealability, simplicity, reliability, capacity, and lethality of any mass produced pistol available today, bar none. The 9mm guys all claim that they have faster, more accurate shots because the 40 has 'excessive muzzle flip' compared to their 9mm and that, along with the 2 round advantage, gives the G19 the edge over the G23. However, because they worry about the std 9mm's marginal performance, they invariably choose their 9mm SD ammo at +P or +P+ pressure levels believing that they will have the same performance as the 40s&w but with the tamer recoil of a 9mm round. Truth is, the G19 firing +P or +P+ ammo has more recoil and muzzle flip than 180grn 40 ammo in a G23. And, as is clear in DR. Roberts gelatin tests above, the 9mm+P while penetrating well, leaves a smaller wound channel and therefore isn't as effective as the larger 40 or 45 caliber, especially the performance of the 180grn 40. Then the 9mm guys state that the 40 is a 'high pressure round' and therefore not as safe or controllable as their 9mms. Funny thing about that is that a 40 has a max SAAMI pressure limit of 35,000psi while the std 9mm load's max SAAMI pressure is also 35,000psi. Doesn't that make the 9mm a 'high pressure' round too? To make matters worse for them, the +P and +P+ loads that they advocate for SD have a max SAAMI pressure of 38,500psi for the 9mm+P and the 9mm+P+ is even higher than that! In fact, there is a 40 caliber round with a lower pressure than the 9mm+P's with performance that crushes the smaller 9mm's. It's called the 10mm and it has a max SAAMI pressure of 37,500psi; 1,000psi lower than the 9mm+P and considerably lower than a 9mm+P+ loading. I guess that makes the 9mm+P and +P+ the highest high pressure rounds by far of the most common pistol cartridges (9mm, 40s&w, 38 Special, and 45acp). The G23 is the ticket. |
Good post. |
umm...wow....thanks for the post, it was really helpful, and loaded with info |
Then why so many Glock 40s going kaboom and all the 9mm seem to stay together? |
The only .40's I have seen KB is one the internet and I'm sorry, I look at those with suspicion. I have been around Glock .40's for a long time and through tens of thousands of rounds and I have never seen a KB in person. I fully believe that the KB's are not the fault of the gun's design but of other factors like operator errors-bullet set back from repeated chambering of the same round, improperly reloaded ammo, ect. If there was a problem with the so-called "unsupported chamber", Glock would have addressed it by now. They could not afforded not to. With that said, the G23. Best package in a CCW Glock. |
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When you compare the 9 to the 40 in performance there is very little difference. Plus 9 mm ammo is cheaper to allow for more practice. Click on Launch Testing Comparison Tool www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/testing/testing.aspx |
This is what I find over and over with most of what I read. All the major handgun rounds are so dam close its what you feel most comfortable with. For me its .45ACP, 9mm or .22lr every day of the week. |
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look dude i was in this 19vs23 bind once. my best friend went with a 23 then 3 months later i got the 19 and now he wants one instead of his .40cal 23 cuz 9mm ammo is alot cheaper most of the time. and as far as stoping power goes let me say this: OK, hey that 9mm felt great tearing through my flesh, could you throw 7 or 8 more of those hotrocks at me please? (god i love saying the term hotrocks, just kinda rolls of the tounge dosent it? haha) Would the bad guy ever say that? i dont think so. if i must shoot beleve me somone is gonna have multiple holes in them, thats all i got to say. |
147gr 9mm loads (RA9T and Gold Dot) are not +P and are probably the best choices in 9mm. |
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If you need more than a 9mm, forget the .40 and get a 10mm or 45auto. Both are designed to take the stress. There are other factors than pressure involved here. The extra inertia from the heavier 40 could cause the gun to unlock prematurely exposing more of the case before pressures drop to a safe level. The slides on the 10mms and 45s are heavier to resist this. The 40 is like trying to stuff 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag. I'd get a 19 or 30. |
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This 40 KB is internet hype. My Glock 22 has over 27,000rds of my reloads through it and it just keeps on ticking. Never yet had a problem. My reloads are full power but loaded correctly by me. I find that the Lee Deluxe Carbide 4 Die set at $28 is the best for the money because their decapper/resizer die will resize my 40 brass all the way to the rim. Yep, it measures .421" dia. (spec) all the way to the rim. Also, for you naysayers that say the 9mm is cheaper to shoot with your $12 - $14 boxes of 100 9mms, my 180grn Rainier plated, TiteGroup powdered, Remington primered, and Speer Nickel plated cased 40s&w rounds cost me all of $5.97 per 100 to reload. You see, to save money you have to buy in bulk (I mean in real bulk quanities) My bud and fellow reloader and I, put together a large order for components once a year at our club and the 9mm crowd pays just a tad less than we do for 40s as the only cost difference is in the bullet. So, for less than ½¢ more per round, I shoot my 40's. |
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Let's see: G19 vs G23. I have both. With ball ammo at normal velocities, the G19 is more fun to shoot rapid fire at the range because of its slightly reduced recoil. However, with self-defense rounds (I use Double Tap 147-gr in 9mm, 200-gr in .40), I don't see much difference in controllability. I'm a believer in using the heaviest hollowpoint bullet weight available in a given caliber. I feel equally confident in either the 19 or the 23 in a CCW situation. The G23 is my nightstand piece, mostly because I bought a LaserMax for it (frankly, it was a tossup which one to buy the laser for). Otherwise, the two guns are configured the same, with a Glock weaponlight and Tritium sights. I just feel marginally more confident in a 200-gr bullet than a 147-gr. Besides, the nightstand gun's primary purpose is to ensure I get to my FN SLP Mark 1 12-gauge 8+1 semi-auto. If the SHTF, hopefully, I'm prepared both with the appropriate hardware and a plan that I actually practice. |
"So many" ? Where are you getting this from |
I have seen 25-30 pictures/stories of KB Glocks. 3-4 of them have been .45, 357 or other. The other 20-25 have been .40S&W. ETA I have never seen/hear of a 9mm Glock KB. Not saying they do not happen but they must be more rare than the 40 and 45. I own many Glocks and I'm not saying the .40 is bad. All I'm saying is IMO the .40 is the most likely to go KB. |
Is that all you have to add? Yes...the main reason for the inception of the .40 S&W was the 1986 F.B.I. Miami shootout but, don't you think it's one hell of a defensive round? In standard loadings I think it is superior to the .45 and 9mm fired out of common combat handguns. Granted most modern combat loadings have very similar terminal ballistics but, I think the .40 is just a notch better. I really don't understand why people want to carry compact or even subcompact ,45 ACP autos. It really needs a 41/2 inch barrel or longer to get any kind of good ballistics. I think for a modern combat handgun, the .40 and to a lesser degree, the 9mm, or the top choices for police or defensive user. Just my 2 pennies. Pete  EDIT: I OWN ALL OF YOU 
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I think you are wrong. 
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I own a 19 and am issued a 23 by the state. I like them both. I would be happy with either one. With practice you can shoot both equally well and won't notice any difference in recoil. Although some say the recoil impulse (felt recoil) is less with the .40 as its not as sharp. Buy one and be happy. By both and be set for life. You'll only need one set of holsters since they'll interchange. On the flip side 9mm ammo is cheaper, so if you want to shoot a lot that might weigh in on your decision. But stock up on magazines now while they're plentiful. |
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I'd say G19. I was a .45ACP bigot for a LONG time, but in the end I don't think it really matters with modern hollowpoint ammo. The Glocks were designed around a 9mm round, and they seem to be most reliable with that cartridge (not that any Glock is unreliable...just slightly more issues with other calibers in some unlucky cases). I own both the G30 and G19...I'd get the 30 if I was restricted by my state to 10 rounds, but the 19 is what I carry day in and day out. Load either the 19 or 23 with Gold Dots or HSTs and you will really be fine with either, but the cheaper 9mm ammo gives it an edge in training. |