Posted: 11/16/2002 1:03:35 AM EDT
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We had range training/qualifications yesterday, and many of us had malfunctions while shooting the Ultramax ammunition. The slides would commonly not close the entire way, sometimes requiring a slap to the rear to get it to close. I have not had a chance to try a different type of ammunition yet, as all I have is duty ammunition. The pistol has minimum lubrication placed on it, so there's nothing thickening due to the cold. Has anyone had experiences such as this or documentation of it? I just want to try and isolate the problem, as it shook my confidence in my sidearm, and I need to figure out what's wrong. I will be taking it out to shoot different ammunition when I can get some myself. The pistol is a 1st Generation Glock 22, and I doubt it has many rounds through it, but it is one of the older ones. Thanks! |
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So I take it your dept. uses reloads with the glock? That seems odd. I would question my depts range officer's abilty to preform his (or her) job, I mean come on. It says in the manual no reloads, no standard lead bullets. You sat there and used reloads, then wondered why it didnt work? I have a glock 30 that is on the recall list by glock for a frame that is not in glock specs. It has over 7,500 rnd though it and not one malfuction. Why? Well its becuz I do what glock suggested, I do not use reloads, or lead bullets. I hope you gun works when you have to use it on the streets dude. Stay safe. |
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I'd bet on ammo, too. It has to be REALLY cold to effect a firearm/lubrication. I've never seen it happen in real life and would be suspicious as to whether it could. Sounds like they bought crappy reloads-geez and for qualifications too-yuck. I'd run a couple magazines of duty ammo through it to make sure, they let you have extras to practice don't they or do they only let you have cheapo stuff to practice with? |
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I've got enough Duty that I can fire some through to determine that part. The ammunition we shot for this exercise were not lead bullets-I have never ever shot a lead bullet through any of the nine glocks I have owned or been issued. This particular one I was shooting I was issued in September, with very little wear showing on it. However, since I have not had an opportunity to fire a lt of rounds through it yet, I haven't been able to learn all of it's characteristics. Ranger Joe-I agree, I hope it works as well...the Glock I have is not my first choice of a carry gun for my preference. I will be shooting it more this weekend on more of my off time with some extra duty ammo I have stashed. There are lots of things that will be beyond the Range Instructors control-what ammunition is purchased is one of them at our department. We just came through an administration where the Sheriff was trying to see how much money he could save to give back to the county at the end of the year to aid in his re-election. The rest of us suffer in the meantime, and have had to use cheaper practice ammunition. When I went through SWAT training I was issued a case of Duty ammo to shoot, but that was over two years ago. Times change with different bosses, and theres not much we can do about it. I believe Glock allows remanufactured ammunition by a company such as Black Hills, Ultramax, 3-D, etc...but correct me if I'm wrong, I can't find my manual to look it up this early in the morning...time for bed. |
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I echo the folks who are telling you not to shoot reloads through your Glock. As an LE Armorer (though not for Glocks), our best response to a persistently malfunctioning weapon that doesn't respond to line measures can be summed up in two words; Customer Service. Most companies will fix their weapons with a week or two turn around. Shooting reloads will void your warranties. I know budgeting issues can affect things, but this is one that you need to fight. Document why you need to shoot new manufacture factory ammo, and get it on paper. Your administrators may not understand the finer points of firearms (and they should, being LE administrators, but that is another issue) but they will understand liability issues raised with shooting ammo not approved by the manufacturer. We only shoot duty ammo for a number of reasons. It was a hard battle that was fought several years ago, but a worthwile one. Here was our reasoning: -Duty ammo may have a different recoil impulse and point of impact than cheap "practice" ammo. Officers should train heavily with what they are going to use on the streets to be familar with those changes. -Liability. By training with the same stuff we use operationally, we are establishing a higher training standard. -Reliability. If our duty round doesn't work with our weapons, or we have a bad lot of ammo (which has happened), the only way we will detect it is with frequent shooting. -Rotation. Duty ammo gets beat around frequently because of being loaded and unloaded repeatedly, which eventually may decrease its reliability. It also gets exposed to all of the nasty weather that officers do. It needs to be rotated frequently. -State law. Our state specifically requires that "duty ammo" be used during weapons qualifications by law enforcement officers. While there is no penalty listed for not using it, it opens the PD up to big liability issues. |
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Ditto for natez' post. Document, document, document. Another factor seldom brought up about reloaded ammo is that with each malfunction that requires you to shut a "line" down for several minutes, you are spending money that can add up after awhile...20 officers at, say $20 per hour is $400 an hour. Twelve, 5min. stops and it just cost your agency $400+ more to shoot those reloads for that one session. Remember, the real cost for training is "time" not the small difference in ammo costs. Good luck. |
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Yeah, stay away from reloads. Even cheap Russian steel case is better than reloads. I have had 5 glocks, I now have four. The fifth had a kB! the one time I bought reloads to put through it. That, by the way was the only malfunction I have ever had with any of my Glocks. |