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Posted: 1/27/2006 2:28:28 AM EDT
Please be kind in replying to this:

First of all, I just got my CPL and am looking for my first carry gun. I've been looking at both a Kimber and a Glock for my first. I know that they both are two completely different set-ups. I like the Kimber because of the look but mainly because of the safeties. On the other hand, I dont think that Glocks look all that bad. I have read through the test of the G21 that was dropped out of a plane, and have also heard by both 1911 and Glock people that there is no argument...Glocks are totally reliable and accurate. Which seems to be a huge factor to consider when looking for a carry gun. If that were it, i think i would totally go with the Glock...and its also cheaper. However, recently i have seen a lot of posts talking about Glocks KB. I talked to a local gun shop owner here in the small town where i go to school, and he said hes never heard of any problems like that. I also have read a lot of people that own glocks not experience anything like that. But still it has made me hesitant. And my prior concern of Glock in which the title is for, is the lack of external safeties. Now i realize that unless your running around with your finger on the trigger or doing something stupid, your probably not going to have an AD. But something about not have an external safety makes me nervous. In the test of the G21 i watched it get dropped off a roof onto pavement and dragged behind a car with no problems of AD with a loaded magazine.

Would the easiest way to overcome this worry be to instead of carry with a round in the chamber just carry with the magazine loaded and in, but no round in chamber?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.......The models im interested in are the G30 (i've shot at the range) and the G36...so comments about these two pistols would also be appreciated.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:32:59 AM EDT
I would get the Kimber ...and for the record-I AM NOT a Glock hater ,just like my XD better than my Glock...
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:15:23 AM EDT
I would get the Glock. Even though they don't have an external safety they do have 3 internal safeties. Glocks are very safe to carry as long as you use a holster that covers the trigger. I do understand your concerns about carrying a Glock with a round chambered, I had the same concern. I also did the same as you are thinking and carried on a empty chamber. That lasted for one day when I realized how stupid it was and would only endanger my life. As far as Glocks going KB it is mostly over blown. All guns go KB when something catastophic goes wrong or with a negligent operator but I beleive it's mostly a Glock hater thing that spreads this bs.

Both companies make great guns and choose which you feel is the better buy but don't exclude the Glock because of rumors.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:22:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:23:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 4:24:35 AM EDT by twonami]
Revolvers don't have safeties and nobody ever bitched about the lack of them then or now.
So why start worrying about safeties on a Glock.
The finger should only be on the trigger when you are ready to shoot.
Carry with a round in the chamber. You may not have enough time or a free hand to rack the slide.
ETA: Training, training and more training.

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 10:28:07 AM EDT
VA - gunnut.....I appreciate your honesty. I have seen a lot of kimber owners post on topics similar to mine suggesting that for a first time owner not to get a Kimber pretty much for the same reasons you listed. I have also heard that the 1911s are more difficult to clean/take apart....there are a lot more pieces in 1911's than there are Glocks. Either way though i plan on taking as many classes as i can to gain knowledge and some training.

Twonami.......Every gun shop owner that i've addressed my concern to has said the same thing as you "Revolvers dont have safeties and nobody ever bitched about the lack of them then or now" I think my concern is a legitimant concern, as WMHM4 also had this same concern.

Maybe the best thing would be to get the pistol, and take a class or two before actually carrying?

My roommate whos dad is a LEO says that he is concerned about how dangerous it is to carry because "civilians" dont have the experience LEOs have at the range nor the training and that the muscle memory that they gain makes a huge difference. I told him that im sure there are probably a lot of LEOs that dont practice safe firearm handling as much as some people off this site, or that a lot of people on here might have better training, more experience that arent LEOs.

What are your opinions on the G30 and G36?

Thank you all so much for all of your input, keep it comming
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:32:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
Revolvers don't have safeties and nobody ever bitched about the lack of them then or now.
So why start worrying about safeties on a Glock.
The finger should only be on the trigger when you are ready to shoot.
Carry with a round in the chamber. You may not have enough time or a free hand to rack the slide.
ETA: Training, training and more training.




I am constantly amazed at the vast number of people that can't figure this out.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 12:00:41 PM EDT
after my wife got robbed at gun piont she she told me that she wanted to go to the gunstore and get a 45 with no safety, after a sig 220, and a glock21 , she got a g30 and you could not pry that gun from her hand. You will get used to having a loaded chamber. I got rid of all my non-glock pistols because I found that the trainning went farther with the glock because I could focus more on tactics that manipulating levers. (surly Im wrong and some one will chime in soon to correct me). At a range that I used to go to there was a video of " non-gun people" who bought guns for defence, with little or no tranning , the video was just footage of people being killed because they were sqeezing triggers with the safety on. any one of them would have lived if they would have (1)trained with there gun , or (2) not had a safety. I think (just my opinion) it makes more sence to train with the simplest one , but no matter what you choose there is no substitute for tranning.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 12:17:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 1:33:08 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 12:55:06 PM EDT
And what are your opinions on the G30 vs. G36?

Is it a matter of what fits best in your hand? I mean im sure thats always the case....but size wise they are about the same except the 30 is a little wider.

What about magazine capacity? Would the 30 be better because of its almost double capacity and magazine inter-changeability?

What about the different versions? I've heard all of the new glocks are comming out with rails.....even if not true is a 2006 glock going to be better then a later version...(they might/probably dont upgrade each you, but i think you get my point)?

Thank you very very much
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 1:52:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 1:53:02 PM EDT by underdog75]

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
And what are your opinions on the G30 vs. G36?

Is it a matter of what fits best in your hand? I mean im sure thats always the case....but size wise they are about the same except the 30 is a little wider.

What about magazine capacity? Would the 30 be better because of its almost double capacity and magazine inter-changeability?

What about the different versions? I've heard all of the new glocks are comming out with rails.....even if not true is a 2006 glock going to be better then a later version...(they might/probably dont upgrade each you, but i think you get my point)?

Thank you very very much



Yes, it does have a lot to do with "What fits your hand" Of the two I prefer the G30, Not because of the double stack mag, But because it fits me better than the G36.

As new shooter you must walk before you run as with all things in life. I carry a cocked and locked 1911, But am also leaning to recommending the Glock for you. The major points to consider are Value(not cost) reliablity, "shootability" and personal fit.

I'd recommend you consider the G19,.. Yes I love the .45acp, but I do recommend the 9mm.
Glock19 is a good value, Most will run around $500 retail w/ 2 hi caps
Glock19 is utterly reliable, low maintenance, and user friendly
Glock19 is 9mm, moderate recoil, well balanced and fits most everyone.

Proper shot placement is paramount with handguns, .22lr or .500s&w, a pinkytoe shot will not stop a threat. With todays modern bullet designs, 1-15 well placed 9mm is more than enough.

The biggest factor is cost,. I personally shot around 10k of .45acp last year. The only way I could afford to do so is to reload my own .45. My .45 reloads cost about the same as factory loaded 9mm. If given the choice of shooting 5k of .45 or 10k of 9mm yearly. Ill take the 9mm. Practicing PROPERLY, 10k of 9mm will definitly improve your skill level, Because remember, missing with a .500S&W still loses out to a hit with a .22lr... Or as they say, "Only hits count"

Go with the 9mm, Make sure you can hit well, then move up...............Udog
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 3:51:41 PM EDT
I will tell you like I tell everyone that comes into the Shop to buy a new gun. A glock is an experianced mans gun and not for beginners. 1911 are a great gun and user friendly, very safe, but again for the experianced. If I was you I would buy something that is both single and double action with a hammer drop safety as well and then after you have carried it a while and have encountered some of the problems with autos like failure to feed, extract, stove pipe, clearing the chamber, unloading and loading, engaging and disengaging the safety, Letting the hammer down, Just all the little stuff that could cause you big trouble and even death should you screw up.
I dont want to scare you but I know of incedents with the Glock that people have shot themselves while stripping the gun down to clean. As I wasnt there I can just think that they did this by not properly clearing the chamber. When you remove the slide from a Glock you have to pull the trigger to get the slide to slide off the frame. I am going to guess that when a live round is still in the chamber that this will get you a bang and since the way you have to manipulate the gun to remove the slide they may have had the gun pointed at themself.
You may even want to consider a revolver for carry.
But all in a nut shell, Keep your finger off the trigger and only point your gun at what you intend to kill or plink at , and only put your finger on the trigger after you have engaged the target with your sights and you cant go wrong.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:25:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrassII:
I will tell you like I tell everyone that comes into the Shop to buy a new gun. A glock is an experianced mans gun and not for beginners. 1911 are a great gun and user friendly, very safe, but again for the experianced. If I was you I would buy something that is both single and double action with a hammer drop safety as well and then after you have carried it a while and have encountered some of the problems with autos like failure to feed, extract, stove pipe, clearing the chamber, unloading and loading, engaging and disengaging the safety, Letting the hammer down, Just all the little stuff that could cause you big trouble and even death should you screw up.
I dont want to scare you but I know of incedents with the Glock that people have shot themselves while stripping the gun down to clean. As I wasnt there I can just think that they did this by not properly clearing the chamber. When you remove the slide from a Glock you have to pull the trigger to get the slide to slide off the frame. I am going to guess that when a live round is still in the chamber that this will get you a bang and since the way you have to manipulate the gun to remove the slide they may have had the gun pointed at themself.
You may even want to consider a revolver for carry.
But all in a nut shell, Keep your finger off the trigger and only point your gun at what you intend to kill or plink at , and only put your finger on the trigger after you have engaged the target with your sights and you cant go wrong.



I work at a Gunshop myself, but maybe Ive been doing this all wrong,.... So for a first time handgun buyer, hopeing to buy a defensive sidearm you recommend something that will FTF,,FTE and basically be a PITA?....Which shop in WVA do you work at?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:14:59 PM EDT
mrassII, i want to first thank you for taking the time to give your advice. But like underdog75, i am go to question why you would suggest getting something that will FTF, FTE and create several other problems. It seems that there are a lot of people within the handgun community that recommend Glock as a good firearm to start out with.

I was talking to this local gun shop guy today about how i posted this topic, and he suggested to look into the H&K P2000 or something, the new sub-compact that they have. But overall he thought the glock would be a good choice. Living in a small town with a lot of hunters, its sometimes hard to get good advice on something like this since there is a limited amount of traffic.

Underdog, I thank you also for your input
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:17:56 PM EDT
I carry a Glock 30 every day, but I agree with underdog75. Go with the G19 and a case of ammo.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:55:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:

My roommate whos dad is a LEO says that he is concerned about how dangerous it is to carry because "civilians" dont have the experience LEOs have at the range nor the training and that the muscle memory that they gain makes a huge difference. I told him that im sure there are probably a lot of LEOs that dont practice safe firearm handling as much as some people off this site, or that a lot of people on here might have better training, more experience that arent LEOs.

What are your opinions on the G30 and G36?

Thank you all so much for all of your input, keep it comming



But is he professional enough to carry a Glock .40? Seriously, polcie officers qulify once or twice a year unless they are some super-high speed tacitcal unit. The average patrol officer has other things on their mind; I have even met LEO's that hate guns. I would be willing to bet your average ARCOMER tha carrys has a lot more pracitce than the average LEO.

Get a Glcok 19 and spend a great deal of range time.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:18:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:39:00 AM EDT
Another bit of input to put your mind at ease about KB's. From what I have seen, read, and sorted through, Most of the KBs seem to be directly related to ammo of questionable quality.
Also, KB's due to poor QA of ammo is not a problem unique to GLOCKs, as other manufactures firearms come apart also when a double charge of powder is used.
One thing that does seem to single GLOCKs out a bit is the .40 SW chambers do have a larger area of the lower portion of the chamber removed for feeding reliability. This is not a problem with quality factory ammo. Other calliber GLOCKs have more chamber support and KBs do seem more rare and less likely in these models unless major issues with the ammo exist.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 8:29:25 AM EDT
I'm a 1911 guy before I started fooling with Glocks.
I have owned, carried and shot a lot of 1911's and have to say I still love them.

But, as already stated, a Glock is a great beginner handgun. I just can't see where anyone would say a 1911 is easier to learn than a Glock, but everyone has a point of view.

For your first CC piece, I say get a 9mm Glock, and shoot the piss out of it!

G19 or G17, they both are great. I do prefer the longer sight radius of the 17 for range/practice use.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 11:43:50 AM EDT
I was recently in the same boat as you.

I choose a Glock 30 for a number of reasons.

1. From everything I have read Glocks are the AK's of handguns when it comes to reliability. Basically it will go boom when you pull the trigger every time. It will work better dirty than many other guns out there and accuracy is acceptable.

2. No external safties. In a self defense situation micro seconds count. Sure a good man with lots of practice and training on a 1911 for example will do fine, this is not me. I have shot them but would need much more practice with them. For me where I am at training wise a glock is faster.

3. I know actually follow the 3 rules of gun safety. Most of the problems "cleaning" and other ND's comes from breaking one or all of the first 3 safety rules.

4. I like the .45 over 9mm Not to start that flame war again.... I just want the .45 over the 9mm just call it personal choice.

5. The G30 can use G21 magazines the G36 cannot. For reloads I will use the higher capacity of the G21 mags.

6. The G30 has more ammo than a 1911 my next favorite handgun. And again can use the G21 mags for even more.

7. I did buy the G30 sight un-seen, without holding it. A gamble for sure, as the shop did not have any. I handled a G36 and loved it and was afraid that the G30 might be too wide in the grip, but it turned out not to be. It fits me great, so the gamble paid off. If you can hold/shoot both. I like the feel of both the 30 and 36.

8. I have found it is easier and seems like slightly LESS recoil than shooting a G17. I like the feel of shooting the .45 better, and I like how the G30 performs.

9. I plan on picking up a G36 for more of a deep cover / summer gun as it is smaller and lighter weight. So in true ARFCOM fashion get both!

10. I have a wife who is only into firearms when she might need them. I am working on this and trying to get her more interested. But in a stressfull situation I think she would forget about a safety. This will be easier for her to use. I have a .38 revolver in mind for her but have some other purchases to make first. In a pintch she could easily use the G30.

11. I was thinking about getting a .40s&w Glock but decided to go with the .45. I did a fair ammount of research on it and though KB's happen with ANY gun, the glock .40's seemed a bit more prone to this. Most of the problems do come down to USER errors, but some don't. It has to do with the case head not being fully supported, or some such. I liked the higher capacity of the .40's and more power than a 9mm. But I wanted a 100% reliable gun and I felt the glock .40's did not fitthe bill. A glock 9mm or 45 sure, but not the 40's.

12. I think that the G30 and G36 are two similar tools but made for different situations. The G36 is lighter and holds less ammo. Good IMHO for an ankle gun or back up to the main gun. I don't like the bitty kel-tec's which are smaller. The G30 is a nice size carry pistol, and ideal for ME for carry.

My criteria was 1. Utter reliability, 2. High Capacity .45 3. simple to use. 4.Compact enough for daily carry.

I personally think that external safties are a crutch for some novices and encourages some people to be lax about the trigger finger. I think that if they are aware that if the finger presses the trigger, it goes boom. Safeties with a newbie adds one more thing they have to remember. Not having an external safety means they have to respect the gun that much more.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 12:24:01 PM EDT
IF your new to CCW or CPL you might want to consider a 5 shot revolver to start with. Point and shoot that's it. If you go with say a ruger SP 101(.357) you can do .38's , 38+P, or .357 magnums

You might find yourself an occasional carrier instead of everyday, and a revolver is pretty much fool proof when it comes to long stints in the lock box and maintence.

If I were to go with a glock I would say G-19 in 9mm or G-30 in .45 ACP, if you have a smaller hand or are sensitive to recoil 9MM for sure. If you have a small hand and like the idea of a .45 go with a glock 38 in .45 GAP.

1911's are great guns but IMHO are for those who practice often, are on top of there weapon maintence, and have well practiced malfunction mishaps. If you enjoy practicing you might want to look into a 1911 doen the road. As a new CPL / CCW user beware of the CHC&C (constant holster change and collection) you will find that you will be trying several systems until you find the one that works for you. best of luck!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:52:34 AM EDT
Say i went with a G30.....would a good move be to get the .22 conversion and use that to practice with. That way you can get used to the feel of the gun, but without the price of the .45 ammo. I only bring this up because a lot of people have recommended starting off with either a .22 or a revolver.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:17:08 AM EDT
I love my Kimber but I'll never carry it, 7 +1 rounds just doesn't do it fo me. I rather carry my Glock 19, very once in a while my 26
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 10:14:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackLex:
Say i went with a G30.....would a good move be to get the .22 conversion and use that to practice with. That way you can get used to the feel of the gun, but without the price of the .45 ammo. I only bring this up because a lot of people have recommended starting off with either a .22 or a revolver.



Please understand, A firearm and moreso a CCW handgun is a very personal choice, and understand im not saying BUY THE G19. A lot of folks will recommend a .22 conversion as a good idea for the reasons youve listed. .22's are great for learning the basics of trigger manipulation, break, reset etc,etc,etc. A .22 conversion does all this and makes one familar with your particular CCW's mag release, reload drill etc,etc,etc. Having said that, I do not think its a good idea to shoot .22's out of your CCW sidearm.

A CCW handgun is to be used for personal defense. One must be one with your CCW, so to speak. One must know the recoil pattern as it pertains to shot recovery and point of impact among other things. This is one of the reason I always recommend one shoot thier CCW at least twice a month. If one shoots 200 rounds minimum of range hardball and 20-40 rounds of higher pressure "defense" loads a month this will happen. Shooting low pressure .38 wad cutters out of a 686 S&W is fun for sure but nothing like a full house .357 out of a 686 Smith.

Agian not pressing you to buy the G19, but 9mm is much cheaper than .45 factory loads, which will allow you to practice more, which if done properly will make you much more skilled with your CCW, Which will make you much better perpared to protect you and yours if god forbid it ever comes to that.

Agian this is just MHO, Udog
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:23:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 3:26:14 PM EDT by mrassII]

Originally Posted By underdog75:

Originally Posted By mrassII:
I will tell you like I tell everyone that comes into the Shop to buy a new gun. A glock is an experianced mans gun and not for beginners. 1911 are a great gun and user friendly, very safe, but again for the experianced. If I was you I would buy something that is both single and double action with a hammer drop safety as well and then after you have carried it a while and have encountered some of the problems with autos like failure to feed, extract, stove pipe, clearing the chamber, unloading and loading, engaging and disengaging the safety, Letting the hammer down, Just all the little stuff that could cause you big trouble and even death should you screw up.
I dont want to scare you but I know of incedents with the Glock that people have shot themselves while stripping the gun down to clean. As I wasnt there I can just think that they did this by not properly clearing the chamber. When you remove the slide from a Glock you have to pull the trigger to get the slide to slide off the frame. I am going to guess that when a live round is still in the chamber that this will get you a bang and since the way you have to manipulate the gun to remove the slide they may have had the gun pointed at themself.
You may even want to consider a revolver for carry.
But all in a nut shell, Keep your finger off the trigger and only point your gun at what you intend to kill or plink at , and only put your finger on the trigger after you have engaged the target with your sights and you cant go wrong.



I work at a Gunshop myself, but maybe Ive been doing this all wrong,.... So for a first time handgun buyer, hopeing to buy a defensive sidearm you recommend something that will FTF,,FTE and basically be a PITA?....Which shop in WVA do you work at?



What in Gods name are you talking about, I have reread and reread what I wrote. I do make mistakes from time to time but never did I say I try to sell them guns that FTF, FTE, PITA,
You all know as well as I do that Autos can and will Jam, All I said was that a person should look at buying something other then a Glock or a 1911, and lean more towards a revolver if they are not experianced with an Auto
I honestly dont know If I confused you with my post or that you read into things that you want to read or you just dont pay any attention to what you are reading. Dont feel that I am attacking cause that is not the case, Just that I see this a lot on the board from a lot of you and I wonder where in the hell did they come up with that, Or is it that you dont like the opinion of others if it differs from yours and the asshole radar pops up.
Damn
Peace the fuck out.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:58:12 PM EDT
"Not attacking"........"Peace the fuck out"

Maybe I did misunderstand your post; if that’s the case then I’m sorry. Considering your post is one long run on sentence, filled with misspellings and unintelligible ramble, I think misunderstanding you is understandable at the least.
Luckily, I have several generations of "Back country folk" in my bloodline so I was able to get the gist of your post.

Again, not an attack, just an observation
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:40:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By underdog75:
"Not attacking"........"Peace the fuck out"

Maybe I did misunderstand your post; if that’s the case then I’m sorry. Considering your post is one long run on sentence, filled with misspellings and unintelligible ramble, I think misunderstanding you is understandable at the least.
Luckily, I have several generations of "Back country folk" in my bloodline so I was able to get the gist of your post.

Again, not an attack, just an observation



This comment just made my week...and boy has it been a crappy week! Thank You for that

I go to school in a totally rural area......Lots of country folk, and this may been my new favorite quote!

But I think I also misunderstood what he was trying to say....and after seeing his post, i re-read it 5 times and i think i know what he was trying to say
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:02:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By underdog75:
"Not attacking"........"Peace the fuck out"

Maybe I did misunderstand your post; if that’s the case then I’m sorry. Considering your post is one long run on sentence, filled with misspellings and unintelligible ramble, I think misunderstanding you is understandable at the least.
Luckily, I have several generations of "Back country folk" in my bloodline so I was able to get the gist of your post.

Again, not an attack, just an observation


WYSIWYG
See you still only read what you wanted to read, I counted 2 long run on sentences and I was tired from a 15 hour run at work that day. The first Sentence being longer then the 2nd, As for unintelliglible rambling, Thats a big word, I had to look it up in the Hillbillys guide to understanding the dictionary.
Ah heard that, saying that I am STUPID and you are Fester? Cause there was a couple of discriptions to that word.
Sheesh give me a break< I may not be Impotent in your eyes but my kin thinks a lot of me.
Oh the things I have heard and seen,
The things I have done.
Before somebody gits thar overalls in a bunch and gets addled , I am not trying to take anything away form your Expertizes.
I would almost bet that over the 32 years that I have been alive and the 20 years I have been into firearm business, Yes I starting hanging out at the local Gun Shop at age 12, Better then being like my friends and doing drugs, drinking and other dumb stuff, Not Dreckly at you, I have seen a lot of things that can and will go wrong with guns. You put a gun in someones hands and you feel responsible for anything that might go wrong. Hate to have to Barium after a accident
But if you think I dont have a grain of sense, , I really coudnt give a Doodley-squat,
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:52:47 AM EDT
A carry pistol means compromise, and all of them are TOO DAMN BIG most of the time. If I was committed to carrying a .45 then I would carry a 1911 with an Officer's length frame and a Commander length slide (I have a Colt CCO that meets that description). I have not had a lot of luck with Officer's length slide 1911s- function problems. A full size 1911 is too big for me to want to carry.

I have a Glock 19 that is essentially the same size as the Colt CCO. One important criteria besides size is weight. Glocks are very light due to the polymer frame, and light weight is generally a good thing. This has it's drawbacks. A lightweight 9mm is relatively easy to control. A lightweight .45 can be a challenge to control in rapid fire. I personally shoot a 9mm better, but that is a choice you should make on the range if possible. The Glock 30 works well, but the Glock 36 is in my opinion a so-so choice. I had one, and it was the first Glock I sold when I had the chance. It was sensitive to limp wristing. This is where you fail to lock your wrist when the pistol fires and some energy is robbed from the slide in the process. This usually leads to failures to feed or failures to fully eject. I could tell when I was doing it as the G36 had the habit of bonking me in the forehead with empty cases. Tighten up the grip and the pistol behaved. Honesty requires me to say this was most likely a problem with ME, not neccessarily the weapon, but if you can please try the G36 before you buy. In fact, compare it in size to the G19. They are very similar in overall size.

I would advise you do not get wrapped around the axle about caliber choice. 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP all have something to offer. I own all three, and shoot all three calibers.

The price of ammunition is something you should consider. 9mm is the easy choice in this regard, especially if you do not reload. I don't reload as much as I used to, due to restrictions on my "free" time (raising two rug rats will do that). Assess how much time you have to devote to shooting.

The single best caliber choice to practice fundamentals is .22LR. If you can afford it as well as your potential carry piece then get one by all means. Advantage Arms makes a conversion kit for Glocks that would suit you well, or consider a separate pistol like a Browning Buckmark or a Ruger. If you have not done a lot of handgun shooting it is important that you practice the fundamentals and you control the natural flinch reflex that I see plagues a vast majority of newer shooters. I had a heroic flinch when I started, but it was diagnosed and treated by a good instructor. If your groups are generally towards the bottom of the target you probably have a flinch.

Proper instruction is money well spent. I know, as I didn't get it in the beginning. Instead I bought buckets of different handguns (flavor of the month). Avoid this if possible, and instruction will show you that what you can (and can not) do with a pistol is more important than what kind of pistol you own.

Four things you should not skimp on- good quality ammunition (which you frequently rotate)
-A good quality holster. Research how you intend to carry the pistol concealed and what will work for you. To ruin the surprise all holsters are uncomfortable to some degree.
-Magazines. Don't buy aftermarket mags for your pistol. Number the magazines you get with indelible ink so you can keep them sorted if they start to go bad on you.
-A good belt. You can't hang 30 ounces of stuff off your belt if the belt isn't up to the task. A custom belt is a real joy to have- it is cut "bent" on purpose.

I wish you the best of luck.

For pistols I would take a look at:
Glock 19, 23, 30.
Sig 239 in .40 and 9mm
Kimber Pro Carry (or whatever model it is that has the officer's frame and commander length slide on it).
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 1:02:45 PM EDT
Cheese, first off thank you for your post. After reading through it i find a lot of your information to be very useful. I think that what i've gathered from your post as well as all of the others, that my best choice would be to go to the range and try a bunch of different calibers and manufactures to see what is best for me. Alot of people have suggested to start off with a .22 and although i wanted to get something that i dont have to upgrade later, i think i might just start with that. I want to gain experience and comfort before i move onto a larger caliber. .22 ammo is very cheap and would allow for a lot of time to practice and build comfort.

Although you didnt say anything too different from what other people have said, sometimes it just takes that one post to sink in.

Thank you
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:20:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:38:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RobertM:
The man asked Please Be Kind.........

Please start ya'lls own thread in the GD for the Bull !

Its ok to disagree but please,please no personal attacks.



SheeeeeeeT, We all like a bunch of little Fonzi's in here. And whats Fonzi like?
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:54:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 3:56:41 PM EDT by mrassII]

Originally Posted By RobertM:
The man asked Please Be Kind.........

Please start ya'lls own thread in the GD for the Bull !

Its ok to disagree but please,please no personal attacks.


I thougt thats what makes it all fun, Not really attacking. More Laughing at each other.



SheeeeeeeT, We all like a bunch of little Fonzi's in here. And whats Fonzi like?
Who was Fonzi? What was he like?
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:26:36 PM EDT
He's cool Honey-bunny, He's COOL
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:38:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 4:41:56 PM EDT by fla556guy]
Not to bash HK, I love the USP line. I have heard some problems arise with the P2000 series with regards to functioning 100% of the time. I have shot many glocks and I have never had a problem. I have owned two NIB glocks and shot them right out of the box without problem. I have shot glocks, usp's, 1911's, beretta's, S&W revolvers and semi's, and a sig out of a holster. By far the easiest of those to get a good clean hit, for me, was the glock. The trigger pull is the same every time (which will be a benefit if you aren't used to DA/SA). It doesn't have any external levers to accidently go safe/unsafe in the holster (eithor is dangerous: If it goes into fire by accident, you may have learned to rely on the safety and have a AD, or if it goes safe by accident, you may be expecting it to be on fire when you draw and the gun not shoot). If you know it's always on fire then you will know, without a doubt, that when you pull it out of the holster, it is capable of shooting if you pull the trigger (I know that the basic gun rules of safety cover this, but if you pull it in self defense you will be under stress and reducing the things you need to do/worry about is a good thing). I like the low bore height (the recoil is less flip and more push), and the grip angle.

I guess that what I am trying to say is: Glock is a great reliable gun, but it may or may not work for you. You will have to try it, and other's to find what you think works best. It works for me. Also, it was the fastest from holster to fire and produce a hit of all the handguns I have practiced drawing and shooting from a holster.

P.S. You'r belief in the fact that your firearm and the caliber of that firearm to stop the threat that you are using it to stop are much more important than the actual firearm/caliber (given that both the gun is 100% reliable, and the round is known to reliably stop threats (nothing less than .38 in revolver, and 9mm in pistol unless you are carrying a mouse gun then .380). I say this, not because I don't believe, that on paper, some calibers offer more stopping ability than others. I say this because: if you are not comfortable with your choice of gun/caliber, you may hesitate in a situation that requres immediate action, which may lead to a larger problem.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:53:09 PM EDT
I carry conceal a Glock26 9mm. I learned on a Glock 10mm, my first handgun. Its whatever feels comfortable in your hands for starters and what you can do as far as racking it, trigger pull ( you'd be suprised some people cant even pull a trigger on some guns, I've seen this on the LE range, etc... Rent some guns and try them out at your local range. After you make your purchase read the owners manual. Then take a course or two from a professional. Practice good form/tactics and go to the range as much as possible. Learn how to draw your weapon while in plain clothes (weapon unloaded of course) I now carry a SIG226 and Glock 26 back-up on duty. If your gonna carry conceal the Kimber its gonna show very much through your clothing. Thats why I prefer a smaller frame weapon for that. SIG239 is a nice model as well. The Glock I believe has three safeties, (read the owners manual on that) so dropping it is pretty well covered, but anything can happen. You wont be nervous if train with it properly. As for carrying it hot (one in the chamber) if your worried about it dont carry a gun. When the time comes you will wish you had one in the pipe. Seconds count in a gun battle, especially with the monkey on your back(stress). All I can say is training, training, training.
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