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Posted: 2/3/2020 1:31:19 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m thinking the adder in a Glock 43x or 48 with the shield arms 15rd mags. |
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Posted: 2/3/2020 1:40:13 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a rifle load. Why not try shorter bbls? I'm hoping you get to a carry load that upsets in flesh and makes the temporary cavity permanent, for less than 5.7x28mm, and runs out of stock 9x19mm magazines. If we could run it out of a Glock 19 or shorter, that would be awesome. One day I plan to buy another this time from BCA direct so if it's garbage i'll send that sucker back till I get one that works. I'm curious as well what a 19/26 sized barrel would do velocity wise. The gun funds don't recoup like they used to  too many kids 
Maybe I can offer a BOGO or would it be B2GO lol ie. buy two barrels and a blank get 1 barrel? Did you ever get setup for reloading yet? |
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Posted: 2/3/2020 6:57:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Only just got back to the the States yesterday.
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Posted: 2/3/2020 7:23:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only just got back to the the States yesterday. |
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Posted: 2/3/2020 8:34:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Loaded up some of the 34's at 5.3gr to re-test and get a solid velocity # and try and do some accuracy testing. Also loaded up a few 33 jhp's to work those up. they actually look pretty tough! Being that it's a shorter bullet it should run ~50 ft/sec faster than the 34's.
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Posted: 2/5/2020 4:28:08 AM EDT
[#6]
I tried to read through most of the posts, but might’ve missed it...
Has anybody just tried trimming the tip off an Armscor 40gr to use in the g17 with a standard mag? Took about 2 seconds to trim with a pair of side cutters, and then a quick rub across a file to even it out. Pretty consistent 37gr after the trim. Seats easily to 1.155-1.160 and fits in the g17 mag with no issue. It’s only seating about .025 deeper than factory 22TCM like this. I don’t have a g17 barrel yet, but it cycles in and out of my ria just fine. Gonna try loading up a few and see how it runs and what velocity I’m getting if nobody else has tried it. 
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Posted: 2/5/2020 10:54:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Is the base jacketed?
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Posted: 2/5/2020 1:18:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the base jacketed? 
Middle bullet pictured. I have not tried snipping the tips but cool to know it works in a full tcm case at 9mm length. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 1:42:15 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I tried to read through most of the posts, but might’ve missed it... Has anybody just tried trimming the tip off an Armscor 40gr to use in the g17 with a standard mag? Took about 2 seconds to trim with a pair of side cutters, and then a quick rub across a file to even it out. Pretty consistent 37gr after the trim. Seats easily to 1.155-1.160 and fits in the g17 mag with no issue. It’s only seating about .025 deeper than factory 22TCM like this. I don’t have a g17 barrel yet, but it cycles in and out of my ria just fine. Gonna try loading up a few and see how it runs and what velocity I’m getting if nobody else has tried it.https://i.imgur.com/q8sYuGV.jpg https://i.imgur.com/F9m9GxN.jpg FWIW removing the ballistic tips from V-Max bullets had no effect on group sizes with my 22 Hornet rifle. If you are interested Advanced Tactical carries 39 grain TCM9R projectiles. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 1:58:20 AM EDT
[#10]
garred, were you able to satisfy Lucky Gunner?
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Posted: 2/6/2020 1:29:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
garred, were you able to satisfy Lucky Gunner? |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 2:36:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Maybe see something once I get to email this afternoon.
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Posted: 2/9/2020 6:31:38 PM EDT
[#13]
It was mentioned that you had to ream the necks out when you went to the shorter case.
Could you add more case taper and use a 9 x 23 brass as the parent case. That should fill out the space on the slide breach face and perhaps allow better extraction. Also could allow for more case capacity. The volume change could allow you to get back to the 40gr bullet weight range. Just thinking out loud... |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 8:43:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was mentioned that you had to ream the necks out when you went to the shorter case. Could you add more case taper and use a 9 x 23 brass as the parent case. That should fill out the space on the slide breach face and perhaps allow better extraction. Also could allow for more case capacity. The volume change could allow you to get back to the 40gr bullet weight range. Just thinking out loud... I can run 40's as is and it should meet/exceed velocities of the 22 tcm 9r with the extra operating pressure and longer effective barrel length (lands start sooner due to shorter case) I actually plan to try 40's and just found my missing 40gr jhp armscor bullets this weekend. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 9:04:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Ok so a little update. This weekend was a bust. Went out yesterday and got nothing but ERR from the chronograph (overcast) I did however shoot a 1/2" piece of AR500 plate I have from about 10' and it put a pretty impressive crater in it. about 1/2" diameter and almost 3/8" deep.
Loaded up some more 5.3gr loads and went out again today was still overcast but not as dark so figured i'd try again. Well either I have one of the fastest shooting handguns in the world or my chrono was spitting out garbage 3300-3850 ft/secgonna go with the latter 
My cousin has been asking to take a photo of it shooting so I obliged (not sure why the audio isn't coming through?) https://i.imgur.com/hKWd2Df.mp4 has some flash and as you can see recoil is nil. So looking at fired cases it definitely appears that they are fire forming some (neck/shoulder junction much sharper) so I resized the case and I will measure case capacity again. But that brings me to the next bummer. Rather than loading a bullet and MIC'ing necks to determine how much to ream I just winged it and used a .221" reamer as my thinking was it would offer .003" neck tension...which it did...but now the resize .0005" undersized so these 50 cases will be a 1 time use so next batch I know to use a reamer another .004-.006" smaller to ensure I have plenty of neck tension after resizing. Not a major setback but sucks some. Also read that moly can be a booger to clean out of the bore and requires conditioning before finalizing load workup. I think i'm going to try and tumble those 30gr bullets to get the moly off them before testing them. Anywho always an adventure in wildcatting. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 9:20:54 PM EDT
[#16]
30 grainers are in or these are others?
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Posted: 2/9/2020 9:23:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
30 grainers are in or these are others? 
Donated by another fellow on saubier.com |
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Posted: 2/11/2020 6:54:58 PM EDT
[#18]
@backbencher The reinforcements have arrived! now to pull them down and test them out. should make for some interesting testing! Thank you for your generous donation to the 22 Adder's testing.
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Posted: 2/11/2020 7:43:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Man, if you pull this off, it will be Trumpic.
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Posted: 2/11/2020 8:05:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man, if you pull this off, it will be Trumpic. 
Man that 30gr V-max just looks too cool! Dug the 40gr armscor jhp and 45gr xtp's out to round out the bunch. So i'm thinking that 30gr v-max is the sweet spot. length is almost perfect for this guy weight is balanced for screaming speed 2270 ft/sec estimated velocity for a 4" and 2450 for the 5.2"(with a very surprising 400 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle! that's 9mm +p territory and if one were to want to I don't know do something silly like a 7.5" AR build it shows 2700 ft/sec and 485 ft/lbs of energy. then that ahem 16" folding carbine shows 3100 ft/sec 641 ft/lbs......all hypothetically speaking based off a computer model....but time will tell 
Oh and for those who may be curious the 2 different 22 Mag loads I pulled down had 7.4gr of the finest ball powder i've ever seen! almost half tempted to shove it in a case and try it lol.
Oh yeah! 
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Posted: 2/11/2020 8:41:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Shweet.
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Posted: 2/16/2020 3:54:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Well another uneventful weekend of frustration.
Took out some 33gr jhp with 5.6gr PP 30gr v-max with 5.8gr PP and 6gr PP Well I think my chronograph is officially fubar I got 1 valid reading out of all 9 rounds which was 6grPP 30gr v-max which I canted the chrono towards the sun on the last shot which was a nice 2318 ft/sec but it did expand to .358" in the center and .3655" at the web. and was a little tight to remove. So I need to whip up another batch of brass with less neck reaming. For those curious out of the 50 cases I only had 3 that split necks. Now in my experience with my other wildcat these stressers are typically caused during the forming process and if they don't split on the first firing they typically will hold up about like normal (4-7 firings) I called my cousin and he's going to loan me his labradar so I don't keep wasting my time and efforts but that won't be till the end of the month when I see him. So for now i'm gonna take a break
I also plan to try some slower powders as I think PP is doing some weird spiking. May even pour a lap and polish the chamber to aid in extraction. I plan to hit it hard in the beginning of March. Right now i'm just spinning my wheels going nowhere 
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Posted: 2/16/2020 9:31:17 PM EDT
[#23]
LabRadar.
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Posted: 2/16/2020 10:33:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LabRadar. |
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Posted: 2/17/2020 12:52:31 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well another uneventful weekend of frustration. Took out some 33gr jhp with 5.6gr PP 30gr v-max with 5.8gr PP and 6gr PP Well I think my chronograph is officially fubar I got 1 valid reading out of all 9 rounds which was 6grPP 30gr v-max which I canted the chrono towards the sun on the last shot which was a nice 2318 ft/sec but it did expand to .358" in the center and .3655" at the web. and was a little tight to remove. So I need to whip up another batch of brass with less neck reaming. For those curious out of the 50 cases I only had 3 that split necks. Now in my experience with my other wildcat these stressers are typically caused during the forming process and if they don't split on the first firing they typically will hold up about like normal (4-7 firings) I called my cousin and he's going to loan me his labradar so I don't keep wasting my time and efforts but that won't be till the end of the month when I see him. So for now i'm gonna take a break
I also plan to try some slower powders as I think PP is doing some weird spiking. May even pour a lap and polish the chamber to aid in extraction. I plan to hit it hard in the beginning of March. Right now i'm just spinning my wheels going nowhere  Since your cases are formed from cut down brass, the area of the new neck and shoulder is being formed from the harder body section of the parent case. Annealing before forming will make forming somewhat easier but more importantly will extend case life. It will also change neck tension and start velocity. Disregard my posting of this information if you are already aware of it. Eta:DIY annealing machine for volume hand loaders.  DIY ANNEALING MACHINE CHEAP AND SIMPLE. |
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Posted: 2/17/2020 8:32:45 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
agreed! a fantastic piece of kit that I wish I owned Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LabRadar. And then my chrony was properly executed over the course of two range trips. See there was still not enough holes in it for just one trip. 
A fellow might have to use the rifle setting on the Labradar for these experiments.
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Posted: 2/17/2020 1:01:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought one. And then my chrony was properly executed over the course of two range trips. See there was still not enough holes in it for just one trip.
A fellow might have to use the rifle setting on the Labradar for these experiments. I have considered trying annealing with the socket method but it hasn't been necessary for the other wildcat but being that these are much thicker at the neck it may help |
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Posted: 2/22/2020 5:25:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol trust me it was hell to go back to my chrono last time I borrowed it. but I don't have $500-600 just laying around. I have considered trying annealing with the socket method but it hasn't been necessary for the other wildcat but being that these are much thicker at the neck it may help |
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Posted: 2/22/2020 7:12:11 PM EDT
[#29]
So I went out with my cousin this morning to let him try out the 22 Adder and send some rounds down range. We didn't have the chrono pointed right and lost some data but had some interesting #'s.
5.1gr yielded 1950 ft/sec and 5.3gr was right at 2000 with the 34gr bullet......umm not cool I thought at first, but I had an interesting discovery. these rounds were all loaded with pulled down bullets and brass.(from rounds I had assembled that were going to be too hot) I noticed it took hardly any effort to seat bullets so i'm pretty confident that the lower velocity was due to this. the case measurements and extraction also mirror's less pressure. was able to get 1 of the 30gr vmax's to read and it showed 2200 on the nose and there's plenty of room for improvement with these according to QL I got some AA #9 and 800x to try out as well. I plan to cease power pistol testing for now and concentrate on the #9 first. I will work up the 33gr to find the pressure ceiling then get back on the 30's since I have a limited supply of those currently. An interesting note. with the v-max load i'm getting 380 ft/sec per grain of powder. that just seems amazing to me. Big thanks to B44T and my cousin for powder and loaning me the lab radar. |
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Posted: 2/22/2020 11:02:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Sweet! So is it the .22 Mamba or the .22 Adder? Or which is which?
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Posted: 2/23/2020 1:34:43 AM EDT
[#31]
22 Mamba is my PDW cartridge I made for the AR 1.125" case 1.4-1.7" COAL
L-R 55gr 22 Mamba, 95gr 22 Mamba (did I mention this one should do sub/super like 300blk), and .223) 22 Adder is the pistol cartridge mentioned in this thread. My corny philosophy (have always loved reptiles growing up) was the 22 Mamba "delivers the kiss of death" which a bite from a Black Mamba is often referred to as. So to keep with the Snake theme I decided to call this one the Adder as the Adder species is considered the smallest of the venomous snakes with the Puff Adder also being a very deadly as well. another interesting factoid is it's scientific name "Bitis arietans" means a Viper that strikes violently. So figured it would be a fun play on words.
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Posted: 3/12/2020 10:40:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@cebiNg Would you be so kind as to post a picture of the feed ramp on your modded mag. I removed the rear support and took off a decent amount off the feed ramp on mine this afternoon and no joy. still getting nose up failures. Thanks, George Chris |
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Posted: 3/13/2020 1:27:00 PM EDT
[#33]
appreciate the link. I ended up pulling the trigger on 2 more mags and they are working well with the rear stop removed. The gen 2 cmmg mags now have wings on top that so far has eliminated tip ups. Mag length is still restricted to ~ 1.39"
I butchered one of mine and tried to use a cut down magpul follower to get ~ 1.68 but the follower is running into tilting issue so it's back to the drawing board. I have another Idea to try just haven't made the time to try it yet. As for the 22 Adder sorry I haven't updated it in awhile. Starting a new Job so been busy with that and also haven't had a chance to get the labradar yet. I decided I'm going to try and turn a lee pistol expander die into a bushing die by making some neck sizing bushings to size necks. I would like to keep them at the thickness they are currently at as I'm finding neck tension plays a huge role on ES/SD in this tiny cartridge. That or i'll make a modified shell holder like I did for the 22 Mamba to use a lee collet neck die. 
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Posted: 3/19/2020 6:19:21 PM EDT
[#34]
For anybody who may be interested, I spoke with Shield Arms at the time of release of their Glock 43x/48 S15 magazines, asking if they had plans for magazines in the Glock 19/17. I wasn’t so much concerned about capacity, but more so on what a metal magazine could do for OAL of rounds. And as most of you know, a metal magazine that filled the magwell would allow for cartridges that aren't typically found in these frames, such as 22 TCM, 38 Super, etc (there are other hurdles, like ejection port size, but Those are easy to account for). In short, their response was that they are on their list, and if/when they did them there would be no ammo restrictions. Take that for what you may, but if it does come to fruition, it would be an amazing development for the G19/17.
Chris |
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Posted: 3/19/2020 6:21:30 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For anybody who may be interested, I spoke with Shield Arms at the time of release of their Glock 43x/48 S15 magazines, asking if they had plans for magazines in the Glock 19/17. I wasn't so much concerned about capacity, but more so on what a metal magazine could do for OAL of rounds. And as most of you know, a metal magazine that filled the magwell would allow for cartridges that aren't typically found in these frames, such as 22 TCM, 38 Super, etc (there are other hurdles, like ejection port size, but Those are easy to account for). In short, their response was that they are on their list, and if/when they did them there would be no ammo restrictions. Take that for what you may, but if it does come to fruition, it would be an amazing development for the G19/17. Chris |
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Posted: 3/19/2020 6:40:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If Shield follows their current pattern of the rib on front of the mag it does no good. Good news is, aside from the fairly easy conversion to Witness mags, MBX has steel Glock mags available. The bad news, they're expensive. Chris |
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Posted: 3/19/2020 7:05:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You weren't kidding about the cost. I guess the next question is, how long of a round fits in them? Any field reports that you know of? Chris Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If Shield follows their current pattern of the rib on front of the mag it does no good. Good news is, aside from the fairly easy conversion to Witness mags, MBX has steel Glock mags available. The bad news, they're expensive. Chris |
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Posted: 3/21/2020 8:54:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: appreciate the link. I ended up pulling the trigger on 2 more mags and they are working well with the rear stop removed. The gen 2 cmmg mags now have wings on top that so far has eliminated tip ups. Mag length is still restricted to ~ 1.39" I butchered one of mine and tried to use a cut down magpul follower to get ~ 1.68 but the follower is running into tilting issue so it's back to the drawing board. I have another Idea to try just haven't made the time to try it yet. As for the 22 Adder sorry I haven't updated it in awhile. Starting a new Job so been busy with that and also haven't had a chance to get the labradar yet. I decided I'm going to try and turn a lee pistol expander die into a bushing die by making some neck sizing bushings to size necks. I would like to keep them at the thickness they are currently at as I'm finding neck tension plays a huge role on ES/SD in this tiny cartridge. That or i'll make a modified shell holder like I did for the 22 Mamba to use a lee collet neck die. https://i.imgur.com/X0sijtKl.jpg Finally got QuickLoad installed. What next? |
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Posted: 3/21/2020 9:27:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finally got QuickLoad installed. What next? QL is worth the investment, I play with mine all the time. It’s obviously not the end all be all for reloading, but it sure is helpful in seeing what is potentially possible. Chris |
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Posted: 3/21/2020 1:01:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finally got QuickLoad installed. What next? If your wanting to play with the 22 Adder here is a screen shot of what you need to input. Start with any 22 caliber cartridge, click the button where my cursor is on, change the lines so they match what is on the screen shot. then click add new. you'll then have to re-load the file:\quickloadfw just click on that name and re open it.  then you can start playing around with it. PS. you can do the same with the bullets using the cursor right next to the cartridge one. I have the 30gr vmax loaded so you have the measurments needed
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Posted: 3/22/2020 7:39:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Thanks!
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Posted: 4/17/2020 6:58:32 PM EDT
[#42]
@backbencher
So I found a custom bullet shop who will do a custom run of bullets with a lot as small as 100 bullets. I've decided i'm going to try them out. Question is how light do we go? He stated that accuracy goes to hell around 19gr but the 20's seem to do ok. He has .435" and .455" jackets Do I go for broke and try 20gr for poops and grins? (QL estimates 2750 ft/sec )or try something like 25gr (still 2600 ft/sec estimated velocity from my 5.2") Gonna let you pick since this has been your dream for quite some time now. Life has been crazy busy but hope to get back to the testing in another couple weeks. |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 9:21:49 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm honored.
25 grn will be plenty fast, I think. We have a Luger at work in .22 Game Getter - bet it's .30 Luger necked down. ETA: shoot me your PayPal - would like to contribute. How did the .30 grners turn out? |
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Posted: 4/17/2020 10:35:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm honored. 25 grn will be plenty fast, I think. We have a Luger at work in .22 Game Getter - bet it's .30 Luger necked down. ETA: shoot me your PayPal - would like to contribute. How did the .30 grners turn out? I ceased any further testing because of my chronograph giving me hell. was supposed to borrow my cousins lab radar but life got very busy for us. (I got a new job and he had his first child) plus all this covid chaos. I'm hoping in another 2 weeks or so life will start to slow down for me and I can get a chance to snatch up the labradar and get back to testing. I have procured 11, 12, and 13lb recoil springs to start on the cycling side of things. 10-4 on the 25gr and no need to paypal. I'm doing pretty good now. Funny thing. My co-worker and I were discussing BOB's and to my surprise his BOB gun is a PMR-30 he has the same mindset. lots of rounds, minimal weight. flat shooting. and you can dump alot of rounds into someone in a hurry if need be. He also keeps a couple mags for his Sig P938 EDC in there. I also bought a recoil spring tuning set for my 26 and a donor barrel to stub if/when I get time to try it. Figure once I find "the load" i'll stub that barrel to 4.5" then lob of 1/2" and retest velocity. If the velocity doesn't divebomb I may try cutting it to 26 length. if it does then i'll just thread it and leave it at that length. Also got another 17 barrel to maybe try a 7" if JoshAston doesn't beat me to it. Now if I only had time. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 2:55:40 PM EDT
[#45]
NIce clear gel test on the .22 TCM 40 grn hollowpoint through bare gel, 4x layers of denim, and 2x layers of cotton t-shirt:
 Failed To Load Title All rounds expanded and penetrated @ least 12" - not clear if the just sub-2100 fps velocity causes a large permanent cavity or not. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 4:32:59 PM EDT
[#46]
Given his stated data it looks like he's getting similar performance to 9mm ball but with greater temporary expansion and less overpenetration.
I really do like the 40gr armscor bullet. they are quite impressive given the price. I did some informal water jug testing a few years back. With 3.5gr of titegroup I was getting 2300 ft/sec muzzle velocity from my 18.5" barrel using the .223 short(predecessor to the 22 Mamba) @ 100 yds (so not sure of the impact velocity) it hopped the first water jug up a good 3-4" inches, penetrated clean through the second jug and the bullet was recovered towards the rear of the 3rd jug. The jacket did separate but was found in the 3rd jug so it went along for the ride. Here is the photo  I'd have to dig for the notes but I seem to recall max expansion was close to 45 cal at the widest point and retained weight was 33-34gr cant remember exactly. most of the fragmentation was found in the first jug. Still have ~1500 of the boogers tucked away and will likely try them in the Adder QL predicts mid 2000's from the 5.2" barrel  Also have 100 of armscor's 39gr tcm bullets en route. ETA: I will also state the same bullet at 3150ft/sec will vaporize about 3" of a ground squirrel center punched one about 40yds. All that was distinguishable was the lower torso(hips rearward) and the head was found about 10yds beyond the point of impact which had a good couple second airtime (seen it fall as I was lowering the rifle)
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Posted: 5/7/2020 2:23:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Any updates ?
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Posted: 5/7/2020 7:57:31 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshAston: No, haven't seen any in the Wild. I'll be getting one, but it's going to have to wait a few months, just not a priority right now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshAston: Originally Posted By cebiNg: Originally Posted By JoshAston: If Shield follows their current pattern of the rib on front of the mag it does no good. Good news is, aside from the fairly easy conversion to Witness mags, MBX has steel Glock mags available. The bad news, they're expensive. You weren't kidding about the cost. I guess the next question is, how long of a round fits in them? Any field reports that you know of? Chris https://www.glockstore.com/MBX-Steel-Magazines-for-Glock |
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Posted: 5/7/2020 9:03:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Nothing on my end. Started a new job before this Covid crap kicked off so spare time has been none. Hope to get back on it maybe around memorial day.
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Posted: 5/9/2020 8:00:30 PM EDT
[#50]
Thank you for the update.
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