Posted: 5/16/2013 9:44:10 PM EDT
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350-400 rounds fired Gen 4 Glock 19, made in 2012 I believe, TEN prefix serial number. Spring number is 0 3 4.
Was shooting and my friend and I both encountered the slide locking open with rounds left in the mag. Ammo was 115gr Winchester White Box, which I have heard is weakly loaded according to glock talk. However the previous day I fired 70 rounds of very well known underpowered ammo, Tula 115gr and had absolutely zero malfunctions. When the slide locked open with the winchester white box 115gr it would be sensitive to being closed accidentally , as in if the gun where moved or bumped the slide would easily close without hitting the slide release or racking the slide. It felt like the slide was just barely teetering on locking open and springing forward. We also both did not accidentally engage the slide lock up during firing. Never touched it. That makes me think a few things: The ammo is getting stuck on the feed ramp? ( Ammo inspected, was not dinged up on the nose so I doubt it.) The ammo does not recoil the slide hard enough due to a strong gen 4 spring? The the ammo does not recoil hard enough due to being underpowered? Both of us are experienced shooters who have firm grips, and DO NOT limp wrist. The spring is marked 0 3 4 which I have read is the most current Glock produces,.... that supposedly solves these issues. I do not recall the ejection pattern of the winchester ammo. I do remember it was not in my face. What do you guys think is going on? Does this happen with gen 3 glock 19s that have stock recoil springs, while running WWB 115 grain? Do you have any free options to fix this as maybe the spring needs to be cycled a few hundred times? I have read that Glock tells people basically to just shoot hotter ammo, and for me that simply isn't good enough. I am aware of the options I have such as getting a gen 3 spring in this gun and an adapter, or just getting a lighter spring. I'd like to get it fixed for free or as little effort as possible. What are your thoughts? |
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What has changed on the gun? New ammo, magazines or parts? Is the slide stop lever standard or extended? Try pulling off the slide and checking the spring tension of the slide stop lever. If the spring is weak or broken I could see the lever moving up under recoil and catching the notch.
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Look at the slide stop spring, dislodged or broken. The spring tension prevents the side stop from bouncing upwards, during firing, locking the slide open. The empty magazine follower pushes the slide stop up to normally lock open the slide.
Sometimes a shooter's grip can push theslide stop up, while firing, and lock open the slide early...but you already mentioned that you guys have not had that issue before. Simple for someone to reset the position of the slide stop spring position back to where its supposed to be,,, should fix it. |
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Mort:
Completely stock Standard slide release a308garand: with the slide off the spring presses the slide release back down but its fairly light spring tension. I would have to think a pressure of 2lbs or less to press it upward. It seems to be working. At the moment im checking everything is aligned and in its correct slots/grooves. AJE: Nope, I didn't disassemble the gun or clean the chamber. However I did also fire Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ about 40 times after the WWB 115gr FMJ, a thing I forgot to mention in the original post. Thanks for your input guys. Re checked my grip. The base and heel of my left thumb are close to the slide stop and could possibly press the slide lock up, causing drag, slowing the cycle down and thus prematurely locking it open. However it still only happened with WWB 115gr. FMJ, which I only fired 40 total. I fired 70 tula 115 gr. FMJ, and 50 Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ. I fired more rounds with tula and blazer brass combined than Winchester alone. I do remember being really concentrated when I was shooting and I remember my grip being very consistent with all 3 brands of ammo. Seems to me like its limited to WWB. I believe the accidental lock open was at least 3, and maybe 7. I was focusing mostly on making hits and just shooting as I was on a time limit. |
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Quoted:
Did you take it apart between the time you shot the Tula and the time you had the malfunctions? This. I haven't shot steel through a pistol but do through my ar's. you need to clean the chamber well, especially before firing brass. It may be possible that you have some fouling caused by the tula. I would give it a deep cleaning. |
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I thought 0 4 3 was the newest RSA, but try this..
Glock Recoil Spring Exchange |
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I agree and I know about the Tula possibly creating malfunctions. I'll clean it well. I appreciate your input AnvilUSMC. The thing is, the rounds weren't making it up the feed ramp and the issue wasn't a chamber issue. It was like the rounds couldn't move the slide back far enough. It was like they only made it back .1" too short .
Maybe I just need to shoot it more to wear it in more? I had a friend with an aging 1911 Gold Cup setup for competition. It had a full length guide rod and a plastic recoil buffer on the rearmost part of the guide rod. The problem was identical to this problem. Locking open with rounds in the mag. And it was down to a tee, the same problem. It too would hang on the slide lock but just barely teetering on locking open and sliding forward, feeding the next round.( when it did it prematurely, full mag) It would drag sometimes for a half of a second, then feed the next round.( My Glock would just lock open and not feed, but would be sensitive to closing if the slide where gently nudged.) The problem was cosistent with 4 different shooters and different ammo in the 1911. It was sent to a gunsmith friend, by my friend. The guide rod was replaced with a GI guide rod and the recoil buffer was removed, the problems vanished. I think the recoil spring was weak but it was not changed. Could there be some thing like that going on here? 
My spring is in a groove on the far left, its not up and to the right as the one in AJE's pic 
Side shot |
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Probably your grip is pushing the slide stop up halfway through the magazine. You could have changed your grip from the day you were shooting Tula to the next day. It happened to me. My grip kind of evolved into that it is today and during that time my support hand would get higher and higher until I finally had to shear off the edge of the lever so I wouldn't lock it back inadvertently or hold it down when it went to slide lock on an empty mag.
The slide lock still functions as I only cut off the part protruding around by the frame. The lever will still actuate on an empty mag and I've done it to 2 Glocks and have never had an issue...or a slide locked back when it shouldn't ;) I can get up pics later if you want. And yes, I already know the questions some of you guys will ask, haha. I will answer them when they come :) |
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OP, I don't quite understand what you are saying about the problem. Is the slide locked back while pushing on the top round of the magazine? If this is the case, then the slide stop has nothing to do with it. In this situation, the slide is not "locked back". You have a feeding problem, possibly the recoil spring, possibly a magazine issue, hard to say without testing other springs, mags, etc. If the slide stop is up into the notch on the slide, but just barely, it could be a weak slide stop spring. Maybe with slightly more powerful ammo, the recoil is just enough to cause your thumb to lightly bump the stop into the notch enough to lock the slide, but not hold it open when you bump the slide.
ETA: Just reviewed your description of the Gold Cup with the identical problem. Sounds to me like a feeding problem, not a lock back problem, but you will have to look closely at the weapon before you "nudge" the slide next time. Is the slide stop in its notch on the slide, or is the bottom of the slide resting against the rear of the top cartridge in the mag? |
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I have a friend suffering the same problem with a Glock 23. I have a thread about it a page or two back title slide release problems. I will try and find it and post the link. My slide release lever is installed correctly, but dosnt snap down after being pulled up like other glock.
I have tried three slide lock levers. |
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Thanks for all of your input!
That's exactly the problem Wheelgun. It locks just barely with rounds in the mag. I think it's something to do with the recoil spring or the slide stop lever causing feeding issues. Today (5-21-13) I fired 90 rounds of Winchester White Box 115 gr. FMJ, the previously mentioned problematic ammo, out of my G19 G4, and a friends new in box G19 G4. I also shot 30 PPU 115 gr. FMJ that I had no problems with. I fired mostly one handed with my Glock and had 0 malfs. Possibly this was due to firing without the heel of my left hand being close to the slide lock? I also fired about 42 rounds two handed with my glock and 15 out of his Glock That ammo was WWB. I fired mostly WWB in both guns and he fired 15 PPU and I fired 25 PPU in my gun. I had no malfunctions. Or so I thought..... Later on the drive home my friend says he had a failure to feed running my G19 G4, on the last round of the 15 round mag using either PMC Bronze 115 gr. FMJ or PPU 115 gr. FMJ. He does not recall which. Both are brass cased rounds. Also to note we both use thumbs forward grip known as "Isocoles" or "Combat Grip" according to handguns magazine or the "Todd Jarret Grip." He also has smaller hands than I do. On the last trip (the one mentioned at the top of this page), my friend had most of the failures with the slide locking open with rounds in it before showing me and letting me try it out. What I find interesting is if it were a grip problem, it would have showed up on him firing his new G19 G4 which had never been fired apart from 2 factory test rounds. Mine has had at least 300 through it and thus should be worn in more I would have to think. I think I need to contact Glock and see what they can do before I start spending any money because I find this ridiculous. I watched the ejection today, it was limp, weak ejection, like a foot in distance and just flopping out. At least one casing flew straight up and back hitting me on the top of the head. That was with WWB 115. I just don't remember the ejection pattern of the PPU I was firing as I only fired 20 rounds of it. |
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I'll send you a PM, if you're close to me in Ohio I'd take a look at it.
I'm almost willing to bet a new slide stop with a stronger spring would help. Just so I'm clear, the slide stop IS up in the notch, just not all the way, when this happens? I could see that being a grip or weak sping, or both. |
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Just watched a vid on youtube. This may help you guys, here is a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj8Qt8ofCAw
I'm going to probably not call glock.... and rather just order a non dimpled trigger bar and try it out. If the smooth trigger bar should not work I'll send it to Glock with the dimple trigger bar so I can have a valid warranty. Thanks AJE, I gotta go to bed, but I'll get with you tomorrow. Yeah it's just slightly up, just on the fringes of the two parts contacting each other. Also to remove doubt about slide drag from one perspective: I have a Grip Force beaver tail upon the glock as I get slide bite if I do not use it. I have shot it without the beaver tail and it has not malfunctioned when it has contacted across the webbing of my hand. I didn't do this much as It wasn't fun. |
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I shot it again and tried to induce failures. I isolated the problem to my left hand thumb bumping the slide release up and locking open prematurely. Without the beavertail on the glock it would ride the slide lock up due to my grip and my hand size. As soon as I put the beavertail back on it stopped locking up accidentally.
Also something unexpected happened, I found a Gen 3 Glock 19 FDE for the same price I have in my current Glock 19 G4. I bought the Gen 3 19 FDE and I'm going to sell the Glock 19 Gen 4 for $575 Shipped or $560 ftf in Ohio with three 15 round mags. If anyone is interested please IM or email me. I can send photos through email or text if your local and would like to exchange numbers. Thanks ETA: Pistol is sold |