Posted: 1/7/2013 9:44:37 AM EDT
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I bought my first pistol, a Glock 21, back in November 2012. I put 25 rounds through it the only time I shot it. The majority of it was Estate 230 gr FMJ. A couple rounds of Hornady XTP were also put through it. First of all, I was happy with the feel, the recoil and just about everything else. The brass had soot and burn marks down the side though. Then I had noticed part of the barrel would not come clean. I took it to a local gunsmith. They said it should probably be replaced. So I contacted Glock and sent it off. Fast forward to today. They said it would not be covered under warranty because of gas etching and that it was defective ammo.
A couple people I work with already dislike Glock now due to my experience. I'll be more than happy to spread bad stuff about them if I end up having to purchase another barrel myself. Here's a picture of the chamber. Part of the rifling just forward of the chamber is also messed up. http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7834/82222958.jpg |
Wow, I am sorry to hear that. I am no GLOCK man by any means because I fell in love with the M&P the moment I picked it up. Although I would hold CLOCK to VERY high standards seeing as how they have been the leading Polymer gun manufactures. For CLOCK to blame it on the ammo is beyond me. It’s a shame that you are having issues with CLOCK. I hope you don’t have to replace the barrel out of pocket. Good luck. 
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I tried getting good pictures of the rifling. They just didn't turn out well at all. It isn't just discolored either. The surface isn't as smooth as the rest of the barrel.
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So it's not possible the ammo could of done that? It could be the ammo but another member shot the same Estate ammo in a gen 4 G21. I'm trying to find out if it is the same lot number. I guess it just irked me that they were real quick to blame the ammo. It just seems like they were implying nothing could be wrong with the barrel when it was shipped out. Every company that has produced something has had defects. |
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Did you get a micrometer and actually check the inside diameter of the bore? If it's out of spec that would tell you, but I find that hard to believe. I think you are making much about nothing and over analyzing the burn marks you see inside. These are tools not show pieces and Glocks are famous for looser tolerances. That's how they stay reliable.
Keep shooting it and try switching up ammo types and see what happens. If it's functioning fine I wouldn't worry about it. 45acp leaves a lot of crud anyway. |
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I tried getting good pictures of the rifling. They just didn't turn out well at all. It isn't just discolored either. The surface isn't as smooth as the rest of the barrel. Quoted:
So it's not possible the ammo could of done that? It could be the ammo but another member shot the same Estate ammo in a gen 4 G21. I'm trying to find out if it is the same lot number. I guess it just irked me that they were real quick to blame the ammo. It just seems like they were implying nothing could be wrong with the barrel when it was shipped out. Every company that has produced something has had defects. That's every gun maker to be honest not just Glock. You have to imagine the thousands of calls and emails these gun makers must get on a daily basis from idiots who know nothing about these guns doing stupid sh*t to them then trying to blame it on the gun. If they just assumed it was the gun all the time they would never make a profit from babysitting all the idiots. Just be patient and see if you can research it more. |
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I tried getting good pictures of the rifling. They just didn't turn out well at all. It isn't just discolored either. The surface isn't as smooth as the rest of the barrel. Quoted:
So it's not possible the ammo could of done that? It could be the ammo but another member shot the same Estate ammo in a gen 4 G21. I'm trying to find out if it is the same lot number. I guess it just irked me that they were real quick to blame the ammo. It just seems like they were implying nothing could be wrong with the barrel when it was shipped out. Every company that has produced something has had defects. It looks like the problem is cosmetic...have you fired the G21 since then? Are you rounds key-holing or grouping wildly, or missing altogether? Also, have you tried J&B Bore paste on patch over an old chamber brush. From you photos the problem looks more cosmetic than anything else. IMHO if it were a barrel problem it could have gone KABOOM |
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A local shop that does gun work took a look at it. They were the ones that said I should send it in. I was trying to find out whether or not it was good. The problem did seem to get worse with every round fired. They did measure it and the chamber was not round. The brass was also bulged out. If none of you think it is that big of a problem, I'll have Glock send it back. I'll just keep an eye on it. I'll pass on Estate ammo once I finish of the remaining rounds.
As for real accuracy, I'm not sure. I just messed around shooting at some bottles. |
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There is nothing wrong with that barrel. You are seeing carbon and lead/copper buildup. Its normal.
You will see streaks between lands/grooves even in poly style rifling. You will see it in the chamber as well. If it bothers you, get a big bottle of Carbon Cutter from Slip (bravo company sells it). Drop the barrel in for 24 hours fully submerged at all times. Brush it clean and swab dry the next day. Then use a strong copper solovent like Sweets...follow the directions. Presto, barrel is clean back to the steel. Personally, I would just shoot it as is. I only deep clean my Glocks about once a year or so. |
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no way 25 rounds would etch a bbl that quickly from a 45acp.
i can't tell anything from the pic but if the chamber is out of round after 25rnds it was never right to begin with. this is typical glock service from my experience. i'd be inclined to just replace it with an aftermarket barrell and be done with it. you'll be able to shoot lead and have less of a likely hood to explode. "if" that chamber is out of spec i'd really be inclined to not shoot it. |
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Before sending it back to Glock, I would have a Glock Armorer at another shop look at it and compare yours to another barrel for peace of mind.
Worse comes to worse and you send it back to Glock to have them examine it. If there is something wrong with it, they will make it right. No worries. |
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I've never heard of Glock's refusing to replace a barrel that's only had 25 rounds through it and which barrel proved to be defective. If I had a Glock with a truly bad barrel, after seeing a psychiatrist to make sure that I wasn't delusional, I'd call Glock and raise some kind of hell.
My experiences with Glock's warranty services dept. have been stellar. They replaced a cracked slide on a gen 2 G17 that I'd bought used and through which I'd fired over 10,000 reloads. They even sold me a gen 3 frame, complete with all internals, for $43. The ONLY original part on that G17 is the barrel, which is/was fine. |
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Before sending it back to Glock, I would have a Glock Armorer at another shop look at it and compare yours to another barrel for peace of mind. Worse comes to worse and you send it back to Glock to have them examine it. If there is something wrong with it, they will make it right. No worries. this |
| I may be the other member that the OP was referring to in this post. I picked up a Glock 21 Gen4, 3 weeks ago. I am a retired LEO and my son is a U.S. Border Patrol Agent. We both broke the 21 in with Estate 230gr hard ball brass cased ammo 250rds. I don't believe limp wristing was a factor in our break in. We where at an outdoor range for the break-in. 250rds where fired with not malfunctions of any kind. My issue was with weak ejection with this pistol. 8rds hit the face or head out of 250. 15rds hit our arms due to weak ejection. I didn't save the spent brass or look real close at the brass. I also had soot on the brass, normal IMHO (shoot an H&K91 you want to see sooted up brass) I didn't look for dents in the brass. The barrel of my 21 looked like the Op's IMHO normal. My beef is the poor ejection of a 45acp by the Glock 21. I have never fired a glock before. My ejection was right 3-4 O'Clock 3feet. I have a Sig Trailside 22LR pistol that ejects brass 8feet. I blame the ammo on the poor ejection (i hope) I just don't know what normal ejection distances are with a Glock. No malfunctions just weak ejection. This pistol has been out since 1991 Gen1 so i expected no problems with its ejection. I was aware of BTF issues with the 9mm &40cal Gen4's but took a chance and bought the 21. When i cleaned the pistol i put a drop of oil in the ejector to hopefully help get stronger ejection. |
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I may be the other member that the OP was referring to in this post. I picked up a Glock 21 Gen4, 3 weeks ago. I am a retired LEO and my son is a U.S. Border Patrol Agent. We both broke the 21 in with Estate 230gr hard ball brass cased ammo 250rds. I don't believe limp wristing was a factor in our break in. We where at an outdoor range for the break-in. 250rds where fired with not malfunctions of any kind. My issue was with weak ejection with this pistol. 8rds hit the face or head out of 250. 15rds hit our arms due to weak ejection. I didn't save the spent brass or look real close at the brass. I also had soot on the brass, normal IMHO (shoot an H&K91 you want to see sooted up brass) I didn't look for dents in the brass. The barrel of my 21 looked like the Op's IMHO normal. My beef is the poor ejection of a 45acp by the Glock 21. I have never fired a glock before. My ejection was right 3-4 O'Clock 3feet. I have a Sig Trailside 22LR pistol that ejects brass 8feet. I blame the ammo on the poor ejection (i hope) I just don't know what normal ejection distances are with a Glock. No malfunctions just weak ejection. This pistol has been out since 1991 Gen1 so i expected no problems with its ejection. I was aware of BTF issues with the 9mm &40cal Gen4's but took a chance and bought the 21. When i cleaned the pistol i put a drop of oil in the ejector to hopefully help get stronger ejection. You are the first of anyone I have heard that has experienced BTF on a G21 gen4 on this forum. I have two G21 gen4's and a G21 SF and I have never experienced it with mine, although I have only run magtech and federal ammo through it. |
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What exactly did the gunsmith say was wrong with the barrel?
Two observations I have made over the years - 1) Brass from ammunition fired out of a Glock barrel is .0005"-.0010" larger in diameter than that fired out of my Berettas and Smith and Wessons. There is also more of a bulge at the web of the brass. 2) Cheap ammunition with cheap propellant leaves crud inside the chamber and barrel that looks unusual when compared to a barrel after firing higher quality ammunition. The chamber will appear slightly out of round at the transition from the feed ramp to the chamber. If you have not measured the area and compared it to a known good barrel, you cannot assume there is a problem. Unless you have reliability or accuracy issues, I would shoot the pistol if the gunsmith did not describe the pistol as "unsafe" to shoot. |
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Quoted: I may be the other member that the OP was referring to in this post. I picked up a Glock 21 Gen4, 3 weeks ago. I am a retired LEO and my son is a U.S. Border Patrol Agent. We both broke the 21 in with Estate 230gr hard ball brass cased ammo 250rds. I don't believe limp wristing was a factor in our break in. We where at an outdoor range for the break-in. 250rds where fired with not malfunctions of any kind. My issue was with weak ejection with this pistol. 8rds hit the face or head out of 250. 15rds hit our arms due to weak ejection. I didn't save the spent brass or look real close at the brass. I also had soot on the brass, normal IMHO (shoot an H&K91 you want to see sooted up brass) I didn't look for dents in the brass. The barrel of my 21 looked like the Op's IMHO normal. My beef is the poor ejection of a 45acp by the Glock 21. I have never fired a glock before. My ejection was right 3-4 O'Clock 3feet. I have a Sig Trailside 22LR pistol that ejects brass 8feet. I blame the ammo on the poor ejection (i hope) I just don't know what normal ejection distances are with a Glock. No malfunctions just weak ejection. This pistol has been out since 1991 Gen1 so i expected no problems with its ejection. I was aware of BTF issues with the 9mm &40cal Gen4's but took a chance and bought the 21. When i cleaned the pistol i put a drop of oil in the ejector to hopefully help get stronger ejection. The envelope with the spent brass in it states that my 21 was test fired on 22Oct12 |
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I have experienced brass to my face with both my 21 SF and Gen4 21 when working up reloads. The BTF has only been experienced with the low end of the load scale, which are relatively low velocity loads. When I got up to the more standard loads (ie higher velocity) the BTF phenomenon stopped. I believe round pressure / slide velocity has a lot to do with problem in the 21 series. In all fairness my Colt rail gun did the same thing. OP I'd say try some standard ammunition, shoot your 21 and take your "gunsmith's" advice with a grain of salt. I'm almost willing to bet your disappointment should be with your ammo an gunsmith and not your Glock. Tomorrow I'll try to get some pictures of some of my Glocks chambers. They look very similar to yours.
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I may be the other member that the OP was referring to in this post. I picked up a Glock 21 Gen4, 3 weeks ago. I am a retired LEO and my son is a U.S. Border Patrol Agent. We both broke the 21 in with Estate 230gr hard ball brass cased ammo 250rds. I don't believe limp wristing was a factor in our break in. We where at an outdoor range for the break-in. 250rds where fired with not malfunctions of any kind. My issue was with weak ejection with this pistol. 8rds hit the face or head out of 250. 15rds hit our arms due to weak ejection. I didn't save the spent brass or look real close at the brass. I also had soot on the brass, normal IMHO (shoot an H&K91 you want to see sooted up brass) I didn't look for dents in the brass. The barrel of my 21 looked like the Op's IMHO normal. My beef is the poor ejection of a 45acp by the Glock 21. I have never fired a glock before. My ejection was right 3-4 O'Clock 3feet. I have a Sig Trailside 22LR pistol that ejects brass 8feet. I blame the ammo on the poor ejection (i hope) I just don't know what normal ejection distances are with a Glock. No malfunctions just weak ejection. This pistol has been out since 1991 Gen1 so i expected no problems with its ejection. I was aware of BTF issues with the 9mm &40cal Gen4's but took a chance and bought the 21. When i cleaned the pistol i put a drop of oil in the ejector to hopefully help get stronger ejection. Whether you're Pee Wee Herman or Paul Bunyan, a Glock doesn't need to be "broken in," and Glocks won't strongly eject weak ammo as well as stronger ammo. Weak ammo exacerbates the effects of limpwristing. I've seen really strong 260# guys' limpwristing. |
Here is a small representative of different caliber Glock barrels from my guns. 21 Gen 4  21 SF  30SF  37  20  23  27  17 Gen 4  The guns that have the most shot out of them are the 23, 21SF, 37 (old duty gun) and the 17 Gen 4 (3 gun pistol). As you can see they all look a little different as far as chamber wear. Note the one that looks the most similar to yours is the 20 barrel. The last rounds I shot out of it were some tamed down 10mm. Clean yours up real good shoot it with some good standard ammunition and check it out again. I'm still thinking the worry you have is due to your ammunition and a gunsmith that doesn't care for Glocks too much. The big question is, how does your gun shoot? How does it shoot with regular ammunition? |
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I got the barrel back today. I'm going to go with the "it's good" opinion that has been posted here. Is Remington UMC better than Estate? I could fire off some rounds of Hornady XTP to see how that goes. I really wonder what the actual cost difference is in ammo to use clean powders. I shoot Magtech at SGC and it makes my Glock filthy. I ran 100 rounds of Federal HST 230 +P's before loading as my carry ammo and my 21 still looks like it almost hasn't been shot at all compared to how it looks after firing the Magtech range stuff. |
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Quoted: My G21 stays stoked with Winchester Ranger 230gn JHP. Whatever powder they use in that load is very smokey and sooty. One magazine through the pistol and the entire front end of the pistol and the TLR-1 light lens are covered in soot.Quoted: I got the barrel back today. I'm going to go with the "it's good" opinion that has been posted here. Is Remington UMC better than Estate? I could fire off some rounds of Hornady XTP to see how that goes. I really wonder what the actual cost difference is in ammo to use clean powders. I shoot Magtech at SGC and it makes my Glock filthy. I ran 100 rounds of Federal HST 230 +P's before loading as my carry ammo and my 21 still looks like it almost hasn't been shot at all compared to how it looks after firing the Magtech range stuff. |
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The brass had soot and burn marks down the side though. Then I had noticed part of the barrel would not come clean. I took it to a local gunsmith. http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7834/82222958.jpg WTH you are kidding right brass has soot down the side , all my guns do that barrel hard to clean - they all are that is why you use a wire brush |
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I've never heard of Glock's refusing to replace a barrel that's only had 25 rounds through it and which barrel proved to be defective. If I had a Glock with a truly bad barrel, after seeing a psychiatrist to make sure that I wasn't delusional, I'd call Glock and raise some kind of hell. . His BBL isn't defective , they all do that |