Posted: 7/17/2011 4:49:14 PM EDT
| I just got the G23 and was hearing about others who have replaced the guide rods with aftermarket springs and rods. What kind of improvements are most seeing? What appears to be a good combination rod and springs? |
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I use the stainless captured guide rod and spring from Lone Wolf. I've used them in all my Glocks.
Dave N http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=155992&CAT=83 |
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Quoted: Quoted: plastic rod galls and can cause feed jams after some 500-1000 rounds Evidence? I've got about 5,500 through my factory rod with nary a problem. Same, except for the round count. I ended up changing mine as it was approaching the factory recommended round count. Went with a stainless steel captured and it works. The weapon seems a bit milder in the "snappy" category, but it's really nothing to write home about. |
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I think failures & problems with high mileage factory spring/guiderods are few and far between but they do happen.
I've never had a problem myself but when I purchased a used G34 with unknown round count, I decided to get a stainless Lone Wolf w/ stock spring to see how well it worked. I really like it and have noticed a slight accuracy improvement. The gun just "feels better" while shooting. As cheap as they are, it's an inexpensive upgrade that seems to only improve performance and reliability in my opinion. |
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Tungston will add weight to the muzzle and help with muzzle flip.
I have to tell you, I've always run stainless guide rods. I had to qualify twice a year on the department and while I did pass, my groups were never as good as I wanted. I even considered a different barrel. I tried every combination of spring, connector, polish, I could do. It was better but not complete. I recently changed the trigger in mine to a Glockworks Fulcrum. My groups are consistant and at least half what they were. It's not all in the "snap" of the .40. Many will tell you it's your lack of shooting skills. To a point, they are correcty but if you have to get used to a crappy trigger to shoot decent groups, I would change the trigger to a quality tuned trigger. A Glock is a combat accuracy weapon from the factory. There is also a price point that Glocks needs to stick to. Add that to the percieved liability for a smoother, lighter trigger, and you have the 5-8lb. Glock factory trigger. The factory Glock trigger stacks. The Fulcrum does not. It's a smooth pull all the way through. I bought a Springfield loaded that had an 8lb. trigger pull. Should I have just "got used to it"? I think not. I had it fixed. By the way, at least in the G26 and G27, there have been broken plastic guide rods. Dave N |
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Quoted:
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plastic rod galls and can cause feed jams after some 500-1000 rounds Evidence? I've got about 5,500 through my factory rod with nary a problem. Mine went to 11,000 before I changed it. There's a torture test video out there where they fired 1,000 rounds in one sitting. The guide rod actually broke and a piece of it fell out of the gun. The gun still functioned after. To answer the OP's question: my gunsmith switched my G35 to a different weight spring when he did my trigger job. I can't tell much difference in recoil though. |
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Quoted: I use the stainless captured guide rod and spring from Lone Wolf. I've used them in all my Glocks. Dave N http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=155992&CAT=83 +1 Improvements? None. But rather than replace the stock one with another stock one, I felt the switch to stainless was an "upgrade". At this point, I see no real advantage in doing this. |
| I shoot the G22 at work and have no issues with the 40 and groups. I got the G23 for CC and to shoot some practical shooting stages at my local gun club. Everyone there appears to use the 9mm, but I am doing this to remain proficient and not for comp. If changing the guide rod and springs helps to get me back on target just a tad faster, then that is an improvement. Thanks for the advice... |
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The plastic guide rod has some give in it and flexes during recoil when the barrel initially rotates upwards and dampens some of the recoil. One downside is the wear it puts on the rod. One upside of this is that the rod wears instead of the frame, pins and slide. It's a "sacrificial" rod, sort of.
Swapping it with a metal rod will result in less flex and more wear will translate to the other (more expensive) parts. If the plastic rod was a shortcoming, Glock would have fixed it on the Gen4. But the Gen4 still has a plastic rod, per design. I would like to see any independent study demonstrating that a metal rod reduces muzzle flip. Although claimed by many aftermarket vendors, this defies logic. The only benefit of a metal rod is less chance of rod breakage but overall, the stress added to other parts is a zero-sum and more expensive parts may fail earlier. |
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Exactly what parts do you believe are stressed by the use of a metal guide rod? Any supporting evidence? Why would you want flex in a polymer frame?
I know the Glock flexes by nature of the polymer frame but that doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. And a tungston guide rod will have an effect of muzzle flip due to extra weight in the muzzle area. If you hang a brick on the end, it will flip even less. Dave N |
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Exactly what parts do you believe are stressed by the use of a metal guide rod? Any supporting evidence? And a tungston guide rod will have an effect of muzzle flip due to extra weight in the muzzle area. If you hang a brick on the end, it will flip even less. Dave N The flux capacitor! DUH! A guide rod is a guide rod, as long as your gun runs with the plastic one, why waste the money?! |
| The factory Glock recoil spring assembly works just fine, you will not notice much difference with a new stainless piece. 500-1000rds and expecting trouble, give me a break I have shot 2000rds in 2 days and didnt clean it, let alone have a recoil sping quit. Glocks run much better left alone and kept simple. I have seen them run with broken recoil springs due to them being put back together in the dark wrong, but they ran, try that with a stainless setup. If you want quicker follow up shots in shooting sports reload some light loads, my kid(15 year old 100 pound girl) runs a G29SF(with 8 pound connector she likes the reset feel) in local IDPA shoots using light handloads. If you get proficient using trigger reset you will not need a new trigger either, I see many guys and gals that shoot real good scores with factory triggers. Practice is key like anything else, fancy parts can sometimes hide other problems. Go shoot and have fun. |
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Thanks for the opinion on the trigger. I disagree.
Mine have always seemed to cycle a little smoother using the stainless guide rods. Never tried the tungston. Never really had trouble with the muzzle flip. If a guide rod does break, and I'm sure it's rare, could the broken pieces not bind in the spring? Dave N |
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Exactly what parts do you believe are stressed by the use of a metal guide rod? Any supporting evidence? Why would you want flex in a polymer frame? I know the Glock flexes by nature of the polymer frame but that doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. And a tungston guide rod will have an effect of muzzle flip due to extra weight in the muzzle area. If you hang a brick on the end, it will flip even less. Dave N From this article METAL RECOIL RODS – we strongly recommend against the use of any metal recoil rod, including those containing a laser aiming device. Your original Glock® recoil guide rod was fabricated from plastic because of it’s ability to flex – a non-flexing recoil rod will affect the harmonics of the slide’s cycling and will damage your frame! If you need to tune the recoil spring rate for faster cycling, etc, your original Glock® rod can be used, simply remove the capture plug at the front end, and use the rod with your new spring uncaptured (we will be releasing a capitive polymer guide rod soon). A metal recoil guide rod, will bounce repeatedly, into the bottom of the dust cover in the area of the channel where the slide lock bar spring (aka takedown bar spring) resides, and peen the edges of the channel inward limiting how high that spring can return, until it cannot raise the slide lock bar high enough to engage the slide. The results are shown in the below photo – how that slide did not launch downrange….. 
Edit: Realize the frame pictured above is an aftermarket aluminum frame with tighter tolerances than the original Glock, not a polymer Glock frame. |
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Thanks for posting the evidence.Though that is a Race Frame, not a stock frame.
Odd, I've run stainless guide rods for 12 years and never cracked a frame or had to replace a barrel, take dow bar, or any other part. I've had 5 .40 cal Glocks set up that way and 2 9mm's including two duty weapons. Lucky I guess. Dave N |
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Shadowcop, Can you do a quick visual check on your polymer frame if you get some wear around the same area? I checked mine. I see no excessive wear. I'll post pics this evening. I'll also take a closer look. I can see where the end cap of the guide rod sits. The flex issue makes me wonder if that is why I never had an issue running a light when some others did. If the steel guide rod cut down the flex, maybe it gave better support to the frame and allowed the light to work problem free. 1911 guys always have debates on G.I. vs. full length. It always amazes me how Gaston Glock somehow convinced the world that the Glock is the only weapon in the world that is perfect from the factory, using plastic, MIM and a crappy trigger. Any other weapon is recommended for trigger jobs and better parts. Not Glock. Nothing to do with Glocks price point either. Dave N |
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Molodoi, Again, thank you for posting the info. It gives me something to be aware of and is a ligitimate issue, at least with aluminum frames. If I see evidence, I have no problem admitting I am wrong and will change my components accordingly. Dave N NP. I dig your attitude. |
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Don't know if this counts as a broken guide rod, but I replaced it anyway with a SS assembly
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2395/dsc3580b.jpg It was off of a gen2 22, less than 500 rounds. |
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Metal guide rods are about as useful as grip plugs. Don't waste your money. Well I don't know if the plug is a complete waste of money since it does keep a lot of the junk that I am around out of my duty weapon (G22). I guess it would be good for keeping out the dust bunnies 
Since there is so many different answers as to an improvement or not the only way to find out is to try it. I am going to get one of the SS captive types and buy a few different springs. This should give me a good idea of any changes and be able to give a reasonable comparison. Thanks for the ideas and suggestion... |
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I checked my old duty G23 for wear. None appreciable wear. If there is, it's nothing noticable. I have probably 5000 rounds down it.
My G27 is still fairly new, so I wouldn't expect to and do not see any wear on the frame. My camera is down or I would post pics. Dave N |
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Quoted: Don't know if this counts as a broken guide rod, but I replaced it anyway with a SS assembly http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2395/dsc3580b.jpg It was off of a gen2 22, less than 500 rounds. That failure is generally due to not re-seating the guide rod head into the assembly notch on the barrel lug when field stripping. This is very common, and is operator error. |
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Quoted:
Don't know if this counts as a broken guide rod, but I replaced it anyway with a SS assembly <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/dsc3580b.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2395/dsc3580b.jpg</a> It was off of a gen2 22, less than 500 rounds. And when that SS guide rod hammers and peens your slide and receiver you will have another problem that will not be covered under the Glock warranty....Enjoy! |
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Quoted:
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Don't know if this counts as a broken guide rod, but I replaced it anyway with a SS assembly <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/dsc3580b.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2395/dsc3580b.jpg</a> It was off of a gen2 22, less than 500 rounds. And when that SS guide rod hammers and peens your slide and receiver you will have another problem that will not be covered under the Glock warranty....Enjoy! I called Glock and they said that they did not think I would notice any really significant improvements, they told me to try it out and see. They told me that it would not void my warranty. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't know if this counts as a broken guide rod, but I replaced it anyway with a SS assembly <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/dsc3580b.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2395/dsc3580b.jpg</a> It was off of a gen2 22, less than 500 rounds. And when that SS guide rod hammers and peens your slide and receiver you will have another problem that will not be covered under the Glock warranty....Enjoy! Bullshit |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don't know if this counts as a broken guide rod, but I replaced it anyway with a SS assembly <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/dsc3580b.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2395/dsc3580b.jpg</a> It was off of a gen2 22, less than 500 rounds. And when that SS guide rod hammers and peens your slide and receiver you will have another problem that will not be covered under the Glock warranty....Enjoy! I called Glock and they said that they did not think I would notice any really significant improvements, they told me to try it out and see. They told me that it would not void my warranty. Yea, much like how according to Don Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T ammo is hyped up crap, but yet Glock has told me that is great ammo to run in my G23  |
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Glock recommends replacing the guide rod assembly every 5,000 rounds. I use the stock guide rod in all my Glocks (9mm).
I've seen Glocks go down. It's always been due to aftermarket parts. 
The only think I swap out on Glocks are the crappy plastic sights with metal night sights. I would consider swapping out the slide stop and mag release with the Vickers replacements. |
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Quoted: Glock recommends replacing the guide rod assembly every 5,000 rounds. I use the stock guide rod in all my Glocks (9mm). I've seen Glocks go down. It's always been due to aftermarket parts. The only think I swap out on Glocks are the crappy plastic sights with metal night sights. I would consider swapping out the slide stop and mag release with the Vickers replacements. Ya know I've thought about switching out my mag release and slide lock, but it never seemed like the right thing to do. I don't use the slide lock to chamber a new round on a reload, and being a lefty I have to adjust my grip to drop the magazine anyways, so they never seemed like a "must have" replacement. |