Posted: 3/23/2011 8:51:52 AM EDT
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After all the hullabaloo I've found searching the web regarding the new gen 4 9mm Glocks having issues with underpowered ammo, I thought I'd try some of the offending ammo in my New In Box 19 gen4. It is factory stock except for Night sights. The recoil spring is marked '03'. Until today its been unfired since it left the factory.
I started with Federal Champion bulk pack wallyworld special FMJ. 100 rounds, no issues. This is supposedly one of the worst offenders in the gen 4 9mm pistols. Switched to WWB FMJ wallyworld crap 9mm. 20 rounds, no issues. Blazer 115gr FMJ in aluminum cases, 50 rounds, no issues. Cor-bon 115gr +P jhp, 20 rounds no issues. This will be my defensive ammo. The box list specs as 1350 FPS, 466 lbs at the muzzle. Function was 100% with all ammo tested, fed through South Korean 15 round and 33 round mags. I honestly expected SOME issues, using the cheapest ammo through the cheapest mags, and all I noticed was that I need to move the night sites a hair to the right. I was using a very firm grip, as I usually do with all auto-pistols. I am very happy with my new Glock, and will keep buying cheap ammo, and testing it. |
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After shooting every possible garbage ammo known to man through my Glock, from the "worst" of the cheapo Russian ammo to the expensive hollow point stuff, I've become convinced that my Glock would shoot gravel if I put some in with some powder behind them.
It eats up everything I feed it. |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkHEdNx0Mk4 Go to about the 3 minute mark, and you will understand the problems with the Gen 4 are real. I'm happy yours performs well for you.  |
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Quoted:
Oh, that's right, I have a Gen 17, Gen 3, RTF. Glad I do. Sorry you guys are having problems with your Gen 4s. Any ideas what's causing it? Did they change any of the internal mechanicals on it? They went to a nested recoil spring design that is meant to soften recoil and increase the service life of the spring. With underpowered cheap ammo it seems to create problems that don't exist with the previous design. I have a new style 04 spring coming from Glock, I'll repeat my tests with it and report the results. |
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It appears a big chunk of the problem is actually the extractor. Yup. There have been some reports of the same problems with late gen III guns (which also have the new extractor), although the new recoil system may exacerbate the problem. OP, try removing the extractor from the slide. Offshorebear, you do the same. I've got a feeling that one will come out easily, and the other will be stuck/difficult to remove. |
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I just pulled the extractor from my gen4 G19, and it was the most stubborn glock extractor I've ever pulled out. Not exactly stuck, but a much tighter fit than any other glock I've pulled apart (dozens or more in all calibers except 45 gap). Usually gravity does all the work when I pull the extractor.
It was also cast with a '2' on the extractor itself. I tried the slow feed straight in the air test, it didn't close with only the recoil spring, but a gentle push on the slide sent it home easily enough. |
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The video is interesting. In the slow motion there seems to be a lack lust ejection of the spent cartridge, but later in the video he is shooting at targets and the ejection look fine to me. not getting into a gen 3 gen 4 debate, no knowledge of new stuff, BUT, that video is interesting because to me that is a weak grip. In half the images of slo mo fire, I see the thumb on the left drop below the frame ? That is the relaxed thumbs pointing into the air grip ? not sure, but it never helps. My thumbs don't come off of each other or the frame, both pointed down range. |
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I have a Gen4 with one of the new extractors and it has worked fine with all kinds of ammo- WWB, Fed from WalMart, Brown Bear, Tula, Silver Bear, Winchester Ranger RA9B, Blazer Brass.... At 1700 rounds it has had zero problems since the first mag.
Out of curiosity I pulled the extractor to examine it against my Gen3. As others have observed, it is much harder to remove. I measured both my Gen3 and Gen4 extractors and the gen4 is ~0.005" thicker than the Gen3. Its surface is also uneven and looks extremely worn... there is more bare metal showing from wear than my Gen3 with over 5000 rounds through it. It really seems like the extractors are causing problems. If I were having problems with a Gen4 Glock I would very cautiously try and smooth out the two rough faces of the extractor(or buy a new one and start filing away until it was as loose as a Gen3). Note that this is my hunch and I have not had an opportunity to try this. |
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I just examined two NIB glocks, fresh from the distributor.
First was a gen3 G17, serial starting with RMC. Extractor dropped right out, no problems, was marked with a '3'. Next was a gen4 G19, serial starting with RKF. Very difficult to remove, marked with a '1'. |
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Quoted:
I just examined two NIB glocks, fresh from the distributor. First was a gen3 G17, serial starting with RMC. Extractor dropped right out, no problems, was marked with a '3'. Next was a gen4 G19, serial starting with RKF. Very difficult to remove, marked with a '1'. Very interesting. The numbers likely identify the cavity of the tool they came from- not different versions of the same part. My Gen4 19 extractor is marked "2" If anyone has both a Gen3 and Gen4 19 and the Gen4 is problematic I would be curious to see what effect swapping the extractors has. |
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I've got 4Krds through my gen 4 19 and it's been flawless, a mix of wolf fmj, brown bear, federal fmj, WWB fmj, Rangers, wolf HPs and reloads.
...and half of that has been with Korean mags! Guess I got a fluke 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAtbVgjzBrs |
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Quoted:
I've got 4Krds through my gen 4 19 and it's been flawless, a mix of wolf fmj, brown bear, federal fmj, WWB fmj, Rangers, wolf HPs and reloads. ...and half of that has been with Korean mags! Guess I got a fluke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAtbVgjzBrs No, I believe that the problematic Gen 4s are the flukes. The problem with weak ammo is real enough, especially with the 03 recoil spring, but it certainly seems to disappear with break-in and/or a spring change. |
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A friend brought in a gen 4 G17, had some stoppages with weak WWB ammo. He had the '3' marked spring, so I gave him Glock's number to ask for a replacement.
I also checked the extractor, It dropped right out, no problems there, and was marked with a '3'. Serial # of this G17 began with PMN No failures at all using +P Gold dots or +P Cor-bons. |
| exactly. I recently bought a gen 4 17. shot cheap wallyworld ammo, 300 rounds no problem. The new gen 4 requires more of a break-in period. give em a chance, they are indeed an improved weapon. its glock, they're not gonna produce a shittier weapon than previous |
| I concur on the quick break in. My Gen4 17 was supper stiff when it was unfired. I was worried about it with my standard USPSA and IPDA reloads. But it ran them just find and after the first day of shooting (~300 rounds) it felt just like my Gen3 with a 13# recoil spring. |
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Quoted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkHEdNx0Mk4 Go to about the 3 minute mark, and you will understand the problems with the Gen 4 are real. I'm happy yours performs well for you. Great review. Thanks for posting. BTW: Gen 3 for me. |
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After all the hullabaloo I've found searching the web regarding the new gen 4 9mm Glocks having issues with underpowered ammo, I thought I'd try some of the offending ammo in my New In Box 19 gen4. It is factory stock except for Night sights. The recoil spring is marked '03'. Until today its been unfired since it left the factory. I started with Federal Champion bulk pack wallyworld special FMJ. 100 rounds, no issues. This is supposedly one of the worst offenders in the gen 4 9mm pistols. Switched to WWB FMJ wallyworld crap 9mm. 20 rounds, no issues. Blazer 115gr FMJ in aluminum cases, 50 rounds, no issues. Cor-bon 115gr +P jhp, 20 rounds no issues. This will be my defensive ammo. The box list specs as 1350 FPS, 466 lbs at the muzzle. Function was 100% with all ammo tested, fed through South Korean 15 round and 33 round mags. I honestly expected SOME issues, using the cheapest ammo through the cheapest mags, and all I noticed was that I need to move the night sites a hair to the right. I was using a very firm grip, as I usually do with all auto-pistols. I am very happy with my new Glock, and will keep buying cheap ammo, and testing it. I'm glad to hear they are starting to get the 9mm versions tweaked out and working. After watching that video do you notice weak ejection with yours? |
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Here's my take on the whole Gen4 thing.
I understand why Glock released the Gen4 because they were losing sales in the LE market to the M&P. If not for the M&P I don't think Glock would have bothered with backstraps or even a new Gen4 gun, but they were forced to jump in and compete again. That's not a dig against Glock, but truth is they sat around for years on their original design (and for good reason it works) while other companies came out with new features that shooters wanted. Now as far as the Gen4 is concerned it is my understanding that they wanted to address an issue with recoil on the 40S&W models so the dual recoil setup was probably a priority for the G22/23. The problem came in when they go lazy and assumed if the the same recoil spring worked for the Gen3 G19/17 and the Gen3 G22/23 then surely the same springs for the Gen4 9mm and 40 guns would work also. Wrong! What happened was they released the 9mm guns first without putting enough testing into them while they got the other Glocks ready to go. IMO if the dual recoil was to address the 40S&W pistols then the 40 pistols should have been the first ones out the door leaving more time to properly test the 9mm guns. This would have given them more time to find the problem AND avoided any bad press hurting the Gen 4 line. I love Glock pistols and will continue to support the company, BUT they dropped the ball on this one and now they are forced to run damage control and try to get these guns up to speed. We all know it only takes one oh sh*t to knock out 100 atta boys and Glocks reputation is on the line now. I plan on getting a Gen 4 G23 soon and so far I have heard no real issues with the 40S&W Glocks, but IMO they should have just left the G19/17 recoil system alone. They could have changed everything else, but the recoil system has been more trouble than it's worth. Just my .02 |
