Posted: 8/14/2007 2:11:46 PM EDT
| What's the legal eagle have to say on this one. Reason I ask is, there are several and I mean several dogs that run wild in my neighborhood due to the "no fences" restriction. Some are large breed pit bulls and things of that nature. Now don't get me wrong I love dogs and especially love my dogs, but if I'm looking at being attacked and out of work for a few days or weeks that's not a good thing. Before I moved into the community I heard about a woman being attacked and having to go to the hospital. I have insisted to my home owners association that a leash rule be made but no luck yet. So what's the ruling on this one? Can I really trust pepper spray in this situation? I am inside city limits as well, would I have to worry about a discharge violation? |
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Dogs can't be talked to or reasoned with much effectiveness. It's not like you can diffuse a situation through speach. However this is 21st cenury America and animal rights have some severe punishments involved in regards to their abuse. You'd go to jail longer for setting an animal on fire than for raping an 8 year old. Just be sure of what you are doing, the situation you're in and if you use a firearm, don't miss. Speaking of which, have you ever practiced shooting at an animal? Try putting some IDPA/IPSC targets on their sides and at knee level and make it part of a tactical senario. You will be surprised at how bad your shots will be while confronting targets that low, in close proximity and under stress. |
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Been there, done that. Got cornered out in the desert East of Bend. I was sitting on a rock eating a sandwich. Four feral dogs cornered me on the rock and a couple tried to get at me. Snarling, drooling barking, growling etc. All were mutts and looked very underfed. At the time I was out of cell phone range. One got close enough to get part of my boot. The dog almost got me off the rock. I proceeded to shoot all four. Three died instantly. The last one, ran off about a 1/4mi and died. I got into phone range called the State Police. He took a statement, photographed what was left of my boot and that was that. The dogs were feral according to the Trooper in a later conversation. They had been living in the Desert around Bend causing all kinds of problems. My carry gun was and is, a LW Commander loaded with 230gr Hydra-Shoks. ZM |
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| Yeah the no gate rule kind of weirded me out too when I first moved in. It's a real small community. Maybe 400 people in the whole town. I just moved there this summer. I kind of doubt they have animal control here. Nice neighborhood but a lot of restrictions. I guess that's how they keep it nice. |
| The general rule in such matters is you have the right to use deadly force against an animal (domesticated or wild) if you reasonably perceive that you, or another individual or animal (whether owned by you or another) are in imminent danger of grave bodily harm or death. However, this general rule is, as always, affected by variations among the states. Some jurisdictions have held that deadly force may be used after the animal's failure to respond to voice commands, others that protection of another animal is sufficient to avoid criminal but not civil damages (which in most states to date are very nominal). A very few disparate places have required in some cases an obligation of retreat, but most of those involved trespassers and were resolved using common law. The best things to do in the situation you have described: (1), call your local law enforcement and complain about the animals (especially if you've seen them snarling or threatening children-that's always guaranteed to get a response-make sure you remember to tell them you are concerned for your own safety and those of neighborhood children to establish a record)-they may refer you to animal control, but at least you've got a record of your concerns; (2), consult with the local animal control folks and the local magistrate to find out the exact state of the law in your area. Good luck! |
Great post! 
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| if it were me, having gone through the CCW course scared the hell out of actually using the gun. i would wait until the dog at least bit me once before i released him from his life. the amount of pain you would endure is going to protect you in the long run and establish that there actually WAS a dog related attack by the animal in case the owner tries to sue or make it look like you were the aggressor. |
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Even if the HOA doesn't have a leash rule doesn't your town have a leash law? Most towns do not allow dogs to run free. If there is a covenant against fences then the owners should be tying up the dogs, staking them or on clipping them to a run when the dogs are outside. Not doing so is inviting a lawsuit as the owner is always responsible for the actions of the dog. |
Try to kill them off with rat poison (arsenic) mixed in with hamburger, don't leave it out, just throw/toss it to them when nobody is lookin' or grab them when it's dark, drag em around the corner and give them the old VC necktie treatment, GOOD DOGGIE I would have no trouble blasting any animal that posed a clear, immediate danger to me or a member of my family. Try to eliminate the problem without drawing a bunch of attention with shooting them though, people will flip out, the cops will probably come, BIG hassle. Just take them out silently a little at a time, skin them and wear their asses for hats like the guy in silence of the lambs. Good luck I won't even get into the custom recipe I know for "milkbombs" kinda like milkbones but better , the whole patriot act thing and all you know. On a serious note, just remember that discharging any firearm, justified or not, in a populated area is always going to be a HUGE liability to the shooter. You are 100% responsible for where that bullet ends up and that's NO joke.
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lol you aint gotta go through all that trouble, dont ya know recently some dog food has already been pre-mixed with the poison. |
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Pit bull in my fenced backyard, came in from an open gate and "Scared" my wife... Blown away. Too risky and the law doesn't want to mess with the rural folks. We have a county lease law and dangerous dog ordnance. People need to control their property (dogs) especially when it comes on my place and bothers my family. Keep the kids and 4-wheelers off also. (Not so drastic measures, but respect the rights and property of neighbors.) |
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walking to my grandparents house after my grandmothers wake... neighbors retarded, massive dogs were halfway through their crappy decorative fence snarling and barking at my parents who were with me walking down the driveway to the house. my dad HATES dogs, he is affraid being he was attacked a few times when he was younger. I tell my parents "dont worry, I got somethin for em" and motion to my side. My parents were like "YOU HAVE SOMETHING WITH YOU?!?!" ...im like...well yeah. So they tell me to show them, which I do. Then I get "OH MY MATT, IS THAT LOADED?!?!". I said no, I carry a empty gun on me in a sarcastic way. With that said, id fuck the dogs up before they took a chunk out of me or my parents. |
That would be correct. The owner of the animal is at fault. If the dog attacks you, the animal is at fault and the owner can be sued. Do not poison an animal simply because you don't like it! It really pisses me off when someone recommends that route. If you've got a problem, get off your lazy ass and speak with local LE and/or the owner about the problem. Just remember that if you break the law, you're no better than the owner who does the same, and if/when you are found out, I hope you get the maximum penalty. Deal with it as a respectable citizen would. If by the grace of the invisible man in the sky, all else fails, then let the owners know that if something should happen to yourself or another tenant, you are fully prepared to take them to court (or pay for the victim tenants attorney) and that you have a very good attorney on retainer. That might wake them up. For some things you just have to wait until they go wrong, before they can be righted. Pre-crime and all that, you know? Most times, you can set things straight without having to break the law. |
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breakin' the law-breakin' the law ...breakin' the law' da da da da da da breakin' the law" here doggie NICE doggie da da breakin' the law, play that Judas Priest song while mixing the special treats for your new doggie friends The law won't do shit until something happens. My mom got knocked down in the middle of her street and bit all to shit by a dog about 4 years ago. She sued the assholes and won a judgement. Big deal, the peoples homeowners paid, not them. The dog is still in that yard. What are you prepared to do? wait until the dog(s) attack somebody.
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What city are you in? Most incorporated areas in Texas now have fence ordinances....if you have a dog, it must be inside a fenced in area, tying it up on a leash with no fence is specifically mentioned as not being allowed in most of these ordinances. Dogs and pepper spray....I was a meter reader for several years. Many of the dogs on my routes had been sprayed by readers before me. The dog becomes afraid of the spray and the can it is in, they do not become afraid of the person. In fact, several of the dogs would hide and attempt to ambush the readers several months or years after being sprayed. mm |
This is what I carry tucked into my waistband- for Close Encounters of the Canine Kind.   This is perfectly legal with my Iowa nonprofessional CCW. 
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| I just shot one about a month ago. Long term problems with these dogs. I complained to the owners and animal control for YEARS. After my daughter was born and had been threatened several times I was done being nice. Taking a walk one day with my wife and daughter we rounded a bend in the path on my property and there they were - standing their ground, staring. I fired two quick shots not intending on hitting them. The two dogs ran home. About 2 minutes later the owner comes running out and yells "did you just shoot my dog?" He had heard the shots and saw his dog bleeding. I said YES. The dog was bleeding from his left rear paw. The owner was furious and called the sheriff. The sheriff calls my house and I spoke to him by phone. He said no problem - that I was justified and closed the complaint. I have not seen the dogs loose anymore! I did get a nasty-gram in my mailbox from the neighbor. The reason I did not kill the dogs years ago is because this neighbor has children that love the dogs. |
| This recently happened and was reported about in the NRA Rifleman magazine section THE ARMED CITIZEN. Dogs started attacking woman at a bus stop. CCW er driving by stops and tries to make the dogs go away, then is forced to shoot them. Police commended the man for saving a women's life. |
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I carry a pistol, even when walking my dog, due to dogs in our area. We live out in the boonies, a subdivision set off in the woods. In other words, perfect conditions for family dogs to run off and become wild. There's a pack that has been sighted often near here, but I haven't seen them around the house yet. Those animals make a damn good reason to be armed, even when just walking in the front yard. As soon as the present a threat, drop them.  Neighbor dogs aren't too bad. Most of the dogs on my street are dachshunds.
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My neighbors have an American Bulldog, very aggressive and at least 3 times it has come over to my yard and growled at me. It started after my kids once (7yrs & 5yrs) in my driveway. Every time the dog has barked or been aggressive the owners rush over, and grab it by the collar. Several times they left their fence open, and the dog came right out at me. They are renters and the house is for sale so hopefully they will be gone soon. The one time I was unarmed was when it came towards my kids in the driveway. I had an unloaded .45 ACP (probably as useful as a loaded one) and a chill went down my spine when the dog started going near my kids because it was unloaded. I vowed never to be unarmed in my front yard again if possible. My friend was attacked while he was walking his Greyhound by a pit bull. It only bit his dog but he picked his dog up in his arms to prevent bites. He had a pocket knife; he said he saw all those teeth and knew it was over. He was lucky and the dog just went back to its yard. The cops showed up and took the dog. Hopefully it was put down. |
Not far from me a census worker was killed and taken apart by a pack of dogs that were "pets" of someone who had been warned about their dogs before. She got out of the car and never had a chance. In the end they are not people and are potentially exceedingly dangerous. |
I was thinking the same thing... when dogs have hiking packs maybe. You have to wonder about the legality of that though... what if your dog gets a C1 misdemeanor for ccw without a license. |