Posted: 6/25/2007 11:24:26 PM EDT
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Like the title says. I've narrowed down what i'm really looking for but unsure of the best choices at the moment. Stopping power and reliability are priority, being small and lightweight are also pretty high up there. Aesthetics isn't as important as functionality in my opinion because it's only going to be used for personal defense. I am unsure of what cal to go with though. I'm looking at 9/10mm and .45 acp. I also saw something at the gunshow last sunday called .45 GAP (enlighten me please). What kind of ammo capacity should i expect on average from each type of caliber? I own a glock 17 but that's too large for my frame to conceal on a realistic daily basis. I'm only 5'10'' 170 lbs. so a compact is a must, fullsize for me would be obvious to someone with a trained eye. Any recommendations? Ammo, pistol make/model, holster are what i'm after at this point. (Price range around $540 for the gun itself) UPDATE Page 2 |
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Don't get a GAP, they are about as popular as the .357 SIG was - they are having a hard time giving them away since the G21SF came out. It was Glock's attempt to perfect an already perfect bullet. I think its the same as a .45 with the exception of shaving 1-2mm off the casing to make the grip slightly narrower. Ballistically, at least from what I have seen, its the same as a .45 ACP. For CCW, I would go with a G19 or G26. Since you already have the G17, either of those would be a good companion weapon because they use the same ammo and you can use the G17 mags in either. |
| Personally I'm not a big fan of Glocks...I had a 19 and it just didn't feel right in my hand... but I do think they are good weapons and if you like the 17... I would go with the 26 for concealed carry with Speer 124 Gr Gold Dot HP ammo. Personally for concealed carry I would go with an inside the waistband holster... that really depends on what kind of clothes you are wearing. |
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KISS. .38, .357, 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP are the only calibers you should be considering due to controllability, potency, weapons selection, and ammo price. Recommendations are to be taken with a grain of salt. The ultimate CCW is what works for YOUR needs, tastes, and budget, so as much as we flap our gums, the necessary step for you is to take these suggestions to the range and rent what you can. The best first CCW for a first time shooter with such a budget is a Smith & Wesson J frame revolver, chambered in .38+P (which is hot .38) or .357 magnum. They are very concealable, reliable, and readily affordable. Their only drawback is 5 shot capacity and less shootable than some automatics. They have many more advantages than drawbacks though, including second shot capability (if you hear a click, pull the trigger again, as opposed to rack the slide) , simplicity of design and operation, and the above mentioned features. If you feel this is the platform for you (and it is with most) then you need to decide between .357 and .38 +P and Steel vs Airweight. You can buy a .357 and shoot both .38 and .357 through it, but you can't do the reverse from a .38 revolver. .357 will kick like an SOB in that small package, so if you can handle it, you are better off going with a heavier steel frame to take the beating and dampen the recoil. if you go with the .38+P, airweights are a popular choice because they weigh less than a pound empty. I won't lie to you... the revolver is your best bet for your budget. Automatics often make for the best guns, but they come with a cost in the CCW market. Either you sacrafice concealability for a quality, affordable pistol, you sacrifice quality for a cheap concealable pistol, or you get a quality concealable pistol and spend a good deal more than you have listed there. If you insist on a pistol, look at the stacked magazine design. Staggered magazines (hi caps) conceal like shit, especially in summer. There is not ONE automatic that I could recomend to you that is concealable, quality, and in your price range. I am very biased against Glock (with good reason IMO) for CCW and disqualify those right off the bat despite the fact 8 people will stop here just say "Glock 19" or some such standard one-liner. The only pistols I can think of at the moment that are worth considering for CCW are the Kahr PM9 and a good quality 1911 pistol (preferrably one with a barrel between 4" and 4.25", and perhaps a compact grip. These choices will easily put you beyond $800 though. Feel free to try the different weapons and calibers, but given your budget and your needs, the only thing that is going to give you the most for your expectations is that Smith revolver. |
What he said |
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Rent, rent, rent. Go to a couple of ranges and rent everything that looks small enough to conceal. The key is, can you conceal it and can you hit anything with it. .38, .357, 9mm, .40 , .45 are the major choices. No two people shoot the same, just see what you can shoot. (Oh, and do not assume the first CCW gun you buy will be the last! They reproduce when you aren't looking) |
Just because a pistol is large, doesn't mean it's a beast to conceal. I know many people who carry a 5" 1911 everyday. My primary concealed pistol was for several years, a Sig 220. Recently I replaced it with a 226. If I ever have a need to go smaller, I'll strap on a 225/P6. I'm just an average size person, 5'10" and 190 lbs., not superman or anything. To carry a full-size pistol you MUST have a quality holster and belt. I use a Galco 1.5" belt and a Milt Sparks VM2 holster. That's almost $200 worth of leather, but it's worth every penney. I'm not going to tell you that a full-size pistol is right for you, it's just another option. Also, whatever you choose, practice practice practice. MJD |
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I gave revolvers a lot of thought and decided the ammunition capacity simply wasn't there for me. The compact glock models are of course a safe bet with a proven design I can appreciate, this baby over at kimber also snagged my eye to the tune of $830 (i could try to find one used perhaps), i'm also leaning very much towards the smith & wesson here. The smith starts at $640 and is more in my price range, has a better balance of power to ammo ratio with the .40 S&W cartridge as well. Any thoughts on either of these two pistols as they were not mentioned specifically earlier. I am a college student about to graduate and don't have the funds to blow on $200 in holsters as much as i'd like to carry a fullsize. I would of course be buying the smith used for my target price and the kimber would be an "i wish" pick. Keep the recommendations coming, i liked the Sig idea, i hadn't considered them yet. |
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do yourself a favor and take this puppy for a test drive ;) |
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If you want a reliable handgun that can handle abuse and is well within your budget, get a Glock 19 (9mm). It's concealable and has 15 round mags. With decent self-defense ammo ( Click here and scroll down ) you should be fine with 9mm and proper shot placement. "Stopping Power" is a myth. Pistols (in ANY caliber) SUCK at killing people, so you need to train to be able to make your hits. I disliked Glocks for YEARS but after training a bunch, I'm a (cringe) convert. I still like my HK USPs but for the price, glocks are good to go. They're fugly and people add way too much aftermarket shit to them but they work and are accurate enough for "social situations". After you pick your carry gun, PLEASE do the following: 1) Put night sights on your gun (stock glock sights SUCK and will pop off if you're doing 1-handed reloads, etc.) I like XS Big Dot Sights - and bought them for all my self defense guns after taking Force-On-Force training 2) Get a good holster (Blade-Tech IWB or Comp-Tac CTAC work for me) 3) Get some training from a decent school / instructor (your CCW class does not count IMHO) 4) Take some Force on Force training. Hope this helps. Feel free to PM if 'ya want. Mike |
whoa that's exactly what i need, unfortunately i gotta try it out before i buy; even with a deal as great as that one. i'll put together a list and make a trip to the range this weekend. |
I picked this up on Saturday:  A wee bit out of your price range, but if you could save a little more, it might be worth it. It's relatively thin, but not so light. It's ACCURATE as heck (relating to the above sentiment that handguns suck at killing, its WHERE your bullet goes that matters more than how BIG it is), and it's SIMPLE to use. You basically draw it, squeeze it, and shoot. Done shooting? Relax the grip, it decocks itself and deactivates the trigger. No switches on it or anything, so it can be used ambidextrously with ease. |
I was speaking with a cop from Munich a few months ago. The HK P7 is his agency's issue sidearm and he said they have problems where officers under stress grab the gun (cocking it  ) and on the draw, put their fingers on the trigger (D'OH!) and have NDs fairly regularly.  Of course if you practice enough, it won't be an issue but it's something to keep in mind.Cool gun though  Mike |
Insert bazillion Glock ND stories here including the one just this week at a gunshow. Frankly, everyone just needs to be careful. |
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I have found the Glock 26 to be ridiculously concealable. I used to carry a Glock 19, which was also pretty reasonably concealable but not on the level of the 26. I use the +2 Pearce base with no problem giving me 12 rounds ready to go (I don't put one back in the mag after chambering a round, otherwise you could do 13 rounds). I also carry a 1911 S&W scandium Commander sometimes, which is also pretty light and slim. |
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wow good point gunfighter, hadn't taken that into consideration even as obvious as that point is to some, it did not occur to me. any recommendations for good leather and polymer holsters? i was thinking of carrying on my left hip with grip facing forward so i could draw it readily (right hand dominant). someone also mentioned paddle holsters, pros and cons of those vs a conventional concealed inside-your-belt one? i'm going to the range tomorrow, i'll report back my findings  thanks for all the help everyone has been so far, i'll post pics at the end. eh, last thing, is there a special belt i should know about? i was considering wearing a 2inch one that i wear daily since it's leather and has lasted for almost 6 years now. |
| I'd pass on crossdraw carry and go with either an inside the waistband(IWB) or outside the waistband (OWB) strong side (right side if you're right hand dominant). If you can find someone with both who would let you try them, it would be good. Crossdraw has several disadvantages such as covering unintended targets on the draw. It is good for long periods seated such as driving though. I'm not really fond of paddle holsters as I've not found one that's comfortable for extended periods. Get a belt (either leather or reinforced nylon) intended to carry a weapon and make sure your holster and spares carrier have the same size loops as your belt width. This keeps things where you need them and it can get uncomfortable after a while with things shifting around on your belt. |
Very good point here. I have 3 modes of CCW carry: I have an IWB holster from Crossbreedholsters.com; a ClipDraw (ClipDraw.com); and a SmartCarry holster. I usually carry my XD45 in these modes. |
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Big question, none of the ranges in the DFW area that i know of are renting most of these model pistols. Should i just try the different calibers and make a judgement call based upon recoil from a different gun and how the models i'm looking at fit my grip? I HATE not being able to try a lot of these, the sigs are available and a glock i've already got an idea about but the Smith&W M+P .40 isn't for rental anywhere. Thoughts? |
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I've got lots of trigger time on conventional da/sa automatics like the Sig so the transitioning of the trigger doesn't bother me. Many folks never get used to the difference in the first shot being da and the rest sa. For those folks the Safe action and DAO autos make more sense as the trigger is consistent shot to shot. Were I you I'd go with the M&P. |
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Is the M&P a single-action only? I need a little guidance in this because i haven't learned the difference yet. Single-action works like a glock? where once you chamber a round by pulling the slide every shot is the same length of pull? vs. double action where the first trigger pull is harder than subsequent ones because you're pulling the hammer all the way back and it goes to single-action the rest of the time right? |
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The Glock is a Safe Action Pistol that utilizes a striker that is pre cocked by the action of the slide. The Trigger pull then finishes the rearward movement of the striker and releases it to fire the weapon. 1911s are single action where the hammer being cocked is required to fire the weapon. The M&P is Double action only. Each pull of the trigger is the same, a long stroke of the trigger. |
Thanks for the the helpful info SGB. The glock 17 i'm used to has a 5.5lb trigger pull vs. the S&W M+P which is 6.5. I think i'm going to rent two different .40 cal pistols and see how the recoil feels then if everything works out alright i'll pick up a new gun 
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I've gone to the range and tried out another compact pistol in .40 Smith & Wesson and the cal is very comfortable for me. I'm taking the conceal carry class on Saturday with my grandfather (who coincidentally used to teach the class himself) so hopefully he can give me the benefit of his experience along the way. Wish me luck on the test and i'll report back once i've ordered the pistol with some gun porn
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