[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 15 attackers vs. 3 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/5/2006 3:31:37 PM EDT
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I just read a short blurb in the local free paper today about how 3 people exiting the local movie theater and going to their car were "surrounded by about 15 juveniles who ordered them to put their hands up." The victims complied and the thugs searched the victims and stole their wallets. There was no mention of either party having weapons. What would be the proper course of action if carrying concealed and faced with the same circumstances? I would gather that with the 5:1 ratio of attackers to defenders that lethal force would be justified. If one did nothing and they were able to disarm him, he would likely be shot with his own gun, or at the very least lose his gun to a bunch of criminals who would use it to murder someone. |
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I would throw one of these Fox Lab grenades and live to see another day with no loss of life or materiel. Edit: But if you were having a real bad day, then I guess you can bring out the AR / FAL / AK / 12 GA / whatever, and start mowing down assailants while shouting "Get some!"  J/K
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Yep, I was laughing too. Someone calls Fox Lab a tear gas? Boy, you're in a world of hurt to see how much of a tear gas it is
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Don't get me wrong...I have some of those. But it's not CN or CS. |
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Big edit. I've now figured out my final response. When the juveniles say, "hands up," and if these rough crowd consists of big muscled guys and are seriously capable of doing bodily injury to our group, then they'll see my "hands down" and coming up with a piece. If situation escalates from here, of course on their part, then may God sort them out. I've done the most to avoid them being maimed, killed, going to prison, and getting ass-raped in the Pen. If they are just a bunch of misfit teenage trash, they better hold their nose 'cause they won't like what's inside the Fox Lab OC grenade. |
+ Eleventy Million I also hope I have enough SA to avoid that situation. BUUUUTT if it would happen, the gun is up and first one to take a step towards me catches one CM. I'll be curious if the rest keep their appetite for treachery after that. |
The article wasn't especially detailed. I do know that the parking lot there is a garage, so perhaps they got off of an elevator and the scumbags surrounded them once the door closed. Or perhaps they went around a corner and there they were. |
logical.....step back, fast; try to put some distance and draw down w/ EVERYTHING you got (FOX, HG, knife, etc) 
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Doubt they stick around when you flash steel. Even if you clearly don't have enough bullets for all of them, none of them want to be the recipients of the ones you do have. They want easy victims, that's why they hunt in packs. Today is not a good day to get stomped to death by 15 crack babies. |
You may trust to this if you like, I will not. |
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You drop the first one that look like the ring leader and then the next most leader looking one till they decide that being leader is not what it is cracked up to be. If you have three people assuming 1 guy and 2 girls, the guy being the shooter would have to have his head on a swivel. You have to be very condition white to be surprised to find out you are surrounded by 15 punks. |
So, you'll get stomped to death. very well then. |
| If you are going to pull a weapon, strategy would dictate you shoot the one who's speaking. He's most likely the leader. Gangs are pack animals. When command and control breaks down, it's every man for himself. In the confusion, run to a safe area and call 911. Be sure you witnesses all have the same story. "We feared for our lives etc etc.... |
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I have a freind, his name is Keanu, and he was in a similar situation once where two-hundred or so Mr. Smith's were attacking him and he did that thing where he grabbed a pole and then went sideways and did the run around kick in a circle and that seemed to work pretty well.... Brandon J. |
I would also recommend renting this man's movies...especially The Born Losers!     Here's a link showing How Billy would deal with 15 Bad Guys! Regards, Gary 
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I meant that I don't intend to rely on them to turn tail and run when the first one drops. I hope that works, but I would rather keep shooting until the job is done. |
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If these guys aren't middleschoolers you are talking about robbery and the the 5-1 odds thus presented should put a reasonable man in apprehension that life and limb is on the line. Therefore the presentation go a weapon would be justified and if a cloud of dust didn't appear seconds later, the hammer should justifiably drop. How many unarmed kids would charge an armed adult firing at them? The distinguising characteristics from this and Poor Bernie Goetz's story is that 1. Bernie was laying in wait for the incident 2. Bernie was illegally armed 3. Bernie Admitted he saw some of those he shot flee as he shot them 4. Bernie admitted one of the 5 wasn't "satisfactorally injured" so he finished him off w the last shot. Had Bernie shot 1-2 and the others ran off, he would not have been in this fix. |
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Plus it does not help when Bernie told police that his intent was to ..."murder them, to hurt them, to make them suffer as much as possible." Some other cool facts about the shooting is that he discharged all 5 rounds in within 1.5 seconds in a technique that he had practiced. Other words quoted to him in the shooting were: "You don't look too bad; here's another," & "if I had had more [bullets], I would have shot them again, and again, and again." Not that I see anything wrong with any of it 
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The "fix" he was in was the civil suit, wasn't it? I thought he got off in criminal court. |
From my reclining desk chair I would say... If I see a weapon I pull my gun and shoot the one with the weapon in the head. I then attempt a retreat to put distance between myself and the remaining 14. The other 14 will probably run, if they dont then I deal with each of them with the remaining 30 shots. If I dont see a weapon I draw my pistol, point it at the closest one, and say "RUN!!" They will run. I will take my chances on them pulling a gun, chances are if they had one I would have already seen it. |
Goetz is hilarious. He has a special kind of rage. He testified that when one of the guys sat down on a bench after the shooting he walked up to him and said "You dont look to bad, heres another" and tried to shoot him agian. 
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this is an interesting situation. What if the purps are teenagers? do you have the time do decide if they are kids? do you have the chance to sit there and think...how old are these kids, are they armed, do they have any weapons, are they going to hurt me, are they going to try and kidnap my girlfriend, why are there so many of them...etc? In this situation, number 1, i would not ever let myself be so tunnel visioned as to not see 15 people start to form a circle around me. number 2, if i noticed something iffy, i'd make sure the people i was with knew what was about to go down, pull out a phone and call 911, get down behind whatever cover possible, all this while drawing my pistol and aiming at the person who is delivering the verbal threats. shoot first, ask questions later. making sure you go home at night is number 1! YOU ARE NOT THE CRIMINAL, THEY ARE! |
+1. If you draw down on the biggest one and pop him chances are the rest will run. |
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Sounds like disparity of force where leathal force would be justified to protect yourself from severe bodily harm. Target the greatest threat (closest vs. armed) first and work your way down from there. There was a few instances a couple weeks ago of "swarming" (as the media/LEO have come to call it) here in Las Vegas where a large number of BGs attack at once. |
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The only problem with situations like this is that the media usually downplays the bad guys if they are minors and tranform the guy with the gun into some sort of heartless vigilante. Around here, they (the news cameras) go straight to the crying mother and sisters for the whole, "He was so young, he had so much ahead of him" routine, in hopes to play on people's heartstrings, when in fact he was a hoodlum who tried to rob the wrong guy. Sometimes I feel the media and the law are on the wrong people's side. |
I hate it when the media does that!!!!h"I have such a soapbox on this sort of thing........Don't get me started! |
| There was a news story in Philadelphia not that long ago about a guy (board member here) who was surrounded by a group of drunk kids at a convience store. They had been kicked out of a bar and were drunk. They started a fight with him and landed a few punches, when he pulled out his legally carried handgun, and shot one of them dead and seriously injured another. The rest scattered, and they had the criminals mothers on TV doing the whole" not my baby..he was an angel" bullshit. Anyway, no charges were filled and the shooting was rulled justifiied. This was posted in the PA forum maybe 6-8 months ago. |
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Here's another from Philly: www.philly.com/mld/philly/13692656.htm Actually, a similar thing happened to a co-worker at his home on the Drexel campus about 6-8 months ago. One night a brick was thrown into their house through the front window. Several of them went out front to see what it was and met a group of 15-20 "gangbangers" ranging from around fifteen to twenty-something. They attacked him with metal pipes and he ended up in the hospital with a pin in his ankle. He and his roomates have moved to a different neighborhood. An acquaintance and friend of my neighbor was also recently attacked and robbed by 6 young black men while picking up a pizza here in DE. They jumped into his car, pulled the keys from the ignition and tried to drag him out the drivers side door. He's a big guy and he managed to take 3 of them, but one hit him in the back of the head with a rock. He turned to face that guy (he says the hit to the head didn't knock him down) but they started running when they got his wallet. The police showed up and their response to the situation was, "you shouldn't be in this area.", referring to "the ghetto". |
| At as close a range as this sounds, say less than 3 yards. Draw your weapon give them the oppurtunity to back the f*** off tell whomever you are with to call 911. At the first sign of hostility start engaging targets with one round each to the head. If you have anyone left coming at you when you reload continue engaing targets with one round each to the head. |
That is what I would do. 
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