Posted: 1/7/2014 1:23:43 PM EDT
Just FYI. I asked the folks at Raven Concealment for pics of their optional level 2 thumb strap since I couldn't find any on the web in order to make a decision. I'm still flip flopping on whether I'll get one with or without but it looks to be built very well (crappy holster thumb breaks SUCK). If I go the thumb break route I'll post up my impressions if anyone is interested.
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Quoted:
Shows what the hell I know, I always figured level 2 was a single restraining device 
Could be a typo but that's what they called it in the email they sent me. That's what several holster manufacturers call them. I don't think there is an industry standard, Safariland has a video and test procedure for their levels, level two is unclear, atleast to me, it must have one primary safety that can retain the weapon against a struggle for 5 seconds (lvl 1) that when deactivated can still offer some security against a grab but it need not offer the full five seconds of retention against an unauthorized attempt to remove however the minimum threshold is unspecified. Level 3 has to pass the level one test deactivate one retention system then pass again, so clearly level 2 doesn't. ETA: Grammar |
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Raven's level 2 holsters still have a friction retention, it's just light. It will hold the gun in place and secure for normal operations but typically will not secure during acrobatics unlike the normal phantom.
Personally I prefer well made Kydex for 1911's, leather tends to wear the whole gun over time while Kydex will quickly wear the high spots and then stop. |
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Quoted:
That's several holster manufacturers call them. I don't think there is an industry standard, Safariland has a video and test procedure for their levels, level two is unclear, atleast to me, it must have one primary safety that can retain the weapon against a struggle for 5 seconds (lvl 1) that when deactivated can still offer some security against a grab but it need not offer the full five seconds of retention against an unauthorized attempt to remove however the minimum threshold is unspecified. Level 3 has to pass the level one test deactivate one retention system then pass again, so clearly level 2 doesn't. Quoted:
Quoted:
Shows what the hell I know, I always figured level 2 was a single restraining device
Could be a typo but that's what they called it in the email they sent me. That's several holster manufacturers call them. I don't think there is an industry standard, Safariland has a video and test procedure for their levels, level two is unclear, atleast to me, it must have one primary safety that can retain the weapon against a struggle for 5 seconds (lvl 1) that when deactivated can still offer some security against a grab but it need not offer the full five seconds of retention against an unauthorized attempt to remove however the minimum threshold is unspecified. Level 3 has to pass the level one test deactivate one retention system then pass again, so clearly level 2 doesn't. You are correct. The NIJ has a standard for body armor, but none for holsters. Safariland invented the concept of levels for holsters (actually rogers, which Safariland bought), and I believe them to be the standard. The NIJ has recognized the need for a standard, and are working towards one to publish. Under Safariland, a holster with friction only, such as a a model 27 IWB or a Blackhawk CQC concealment holster would be a level 0 A safariland model 200, or a Blackhawk Serpa would be a level 1. A Safariland 295 is a level 2. It has a thumb snap and then a cant or twist of the butt of the gun is required to release the trigger guard lock. A Safariland 070 is a level 3. Thumb and finger snap, plus a twist or cant of the butt to draw. The Blackhawk serpa that they call level 3 would be a level 2 under the Safariland standard, I believe. |
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Quoted:
Raven's level 2 holsters still have a friction retention, it's just light. It will hold the gun in place and secure for normal operations but typically will not secure during acrobatics unlike the normal phantom. Personally I prefer well made Kydex for 1911's, leather tends to wear the whole gun over time while Kydex will quickly wear the high spots and then stop. IMO, that makes it a level 1 holster. |
| I still like the idea of a thumbreak, or some non-passive retention on a concealed holster, (not sure concealed is your intention) I tried a leather IWB with thumbreak but it added a suprising amount of bulk in an area that shows it bad on me. If you get it I'd like to see some pics of it on, or atleast hear your opinion about how it hides. |
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I'm in the "open / concealed depending on the weather department", and call it what you will but when either OCing or just out in the woods I really do prefer something physically holding the pistol in the holster aside from tension. For IDPA I simply train around it and include breaking the strap during the draw. I just put in a custom order for a holster with the retention strap, and I'll post some pics and impressions up when it arrives in 30 years
If it can conceal a duty pistol on my skinny ass within reason it should be able to conceal anything. |
| Just an update, I did receive my holster about a week ago. I'll upload pics taken with my potato tomorrow when I grab a cable from work, but to sum it up I'm quite impressed. I've had crappy breaking retention on holsters before but the Raven is nice and sturdy, yet easy to snap off during the draw. |
Here's some photos. Again I apologize, these were taken with a potato phone; if you guys need nicer pics or have any questions feel free to ask away.
While it looks thick, it carries extremely close to the body (especially with the pancake belt attachments). 
The strap looks like it cuts into the body but I haven't ever noticed it while carrying. Occasionally my shirt might fold over it a bit but it doesn't impede the draw. 
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A gift from the SO. She has a grey cat that has retard strength when he fights and he likes to destroy things for attention. Best cat ever 
http://shop.theoatmeal.com/products/war-kitten-shirt |
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I got the g-code, which I think fills this role better.
I don't see a need for active retention IWB. And if I'm going OWB, I don't mind the extra bulk. And what you get for that extra bulk... is a positive/definite release of the active retention, an better firing grip off the bat (than a strap), as well as the hood being always completely out of the way for a reholster. I've obviously never seen the raven - how do you think it compares to the g-code? |
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Quoted:
I got the g-code, which I think fills this role better. I don't see a need for active retention IWB. And if I'm going OWB, I don't mind the extra bulk. And what you get for that extra bulk... is a positive/definite release of the active retention, an better firing grip off the bat (than a strap), as well as the hood being always completely out of the way for a reholster. I've obviously never seen the raven - how do you think it compares to the g-code? I personally don't particularly "like" the level 2 in a concealment holster, honestly the only role I would use it in would be a camping/hiking situation where I might find myself climbing around in brush. In that case I would definitely go for a straight drop setup at 2-3 o clock. I don't really like the way level 2 setups work IWB either, it's just an awkward motion to release. As far as the Raven goes how he has it setup OWB I think the release is awesome, the thumb comes right down on the snap and pushes through to get a full grip, there is no wasted movement and it's pretty natural and secure, the bulk is not anything that impedes concealment and actually the full kydex shield on the front allows the shirt to slide fairly naturally over it and conceal well. I've never used the G code stuff but to me it looks more of a duty oriented setup, which is fine for what it is but the Raven is designed specifically for concealment and it's kinda comparing apples to oranges. |