[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SERPA Issues (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/24/2012 4:07:33 AM EDT
| I know that there have been alot of issues documented with accidental/negligent discharges while using the SERPA holster. I know that certain agaencies/ and schools ban them. Has anyone ever contacted Blackhawk about this? I am curious as to thir response. I havent been able to locate anything online detailing Blackhawk's response to these issues. I am a firearms instructor with a state agency , and this topic came up in debate yesterday. ANy info is appreciated. Thanks! |
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Honestly, if you could get hard data, Im sure you would find ND's with every type of holster, especially with holsters commonly found on LEOs duty belts. Also, Im sure Blackhawk would write it off as negligence in most if not all occasions, as they should. The only potential problem I see with the Serpa design is debris in the locking mechanism, any other flaws could be applied to any other holster that shares the same principles. i.e. Paddle holster or locking features.
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I've used a Serpa for years. I practice my draw with it and my finger ALWAYS ends up extended straight along the slide, and NEVER inside the trigger guard.
People who are as smart or smarter than me can feel confident they will not have an ND with a Serpa holster. People who are stupider than me should find a more simple holster, although they should seriously consider selling their guns altogether. |
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The ND's with SERPA holsters are due to the negligence of the user, not the design.
Our Sheriff's department uses them for their Glock 21SF's and X26 tasers with great results I have one on my plate carrier mounted on a STRIKE plate and love it Not to mention the thousands of them in use with the Army and Marines... |
| Regardless of where the fault lies the fact remains that NDs and injuries are more likely with the SERPA than with competing designs. Also it's poor tolerance of foreign objects is problematic. The growing list of agencies and institutions that prohibit SERPA use reflects the reality that it has problem that competing holsters do not have. |
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Yet it's much easier to be negligent with a SERPA. As an individual that risk is on you but for organizations it's a poor bet. Further, that debris may jam the SERPA is a fact that is beyond question. You may see that risk as being sufficiently remote as to be negligible but other users may see it as a needless risk.
It's just a holster. Lots of other choices for holsters out there. |
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Is it just me or does it seem like every other month or so someone comes along and bashes the Serpa based on rumor, innuendo, and unsubstantiated heard-it-from-a-guy-who-heard-it? There's always some vague list of organizations that are supposedly banning their use, yet nobody ever seems to have an actual list beyond an irrelevant name or two.
It almost seems like a competitor trying to steer people clear of a good product to get more market share for themselves. Yes, a couple idiots doing stupid things have had NDs, but to even try to blame the holster is just pejorative gossip. If you're going to blame the holster you may as well blame the gun, and ban those. The Brady campaign uses the very same logic. |
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Is it just me or does it seem like every other month or so someone comes along and bashes the Serpa based on rumor, innuendo, and unsubstantiated heard-it-from-a-guy-who-heard-it? There's always some vague list of organizations that are supposedly banning their use, yet nobody ever seems to have an actual list beyond an irrelevant name or two. It almost seems like a competitor trying to steer people clear of a good product to get more market share for themselves. Yes, a couple idiots doing stupid things have had NDs, but to even try to blame the holster is just pejorative gossip. If you're going to blame the holster you may as well blame the gun, and ban those. The Brady campaign uses the very same logic. Pretty sure FLETC isn't an irrelevant name. The issue is that the holsters have a poor reputation for retention (in a gun grab situation) and can lock up with debris. There are many better holsters on the market so why risk the lives of your fellow officers with an inferior product? If you go post in the BOTS forum there is a gentleman there who tested them for his department and they failed miserably. He has offered to share results with other departments in the past... |
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Is it just me or does it seem like every other month or so someone comes along and bashes the Serpa based on rumor, innuendo, and unsubstantiated heard-it-from-a-guy-who-heard-it? There's always some vague list of organizations that are supposedly banning their use, yet nobody ever seems to have an actual list beyond an irrelevant name or two. It almost seems like a competitor trying to steer people clear of a good product to get more market share for themselves. Yes, a couple idiots doing stupid things have had NDs, but to even try to blame the holster is just pejorative gossip. If you're going to blame the holster you may as well blame the gun, and ban those. The Brady campaign uses the very same logic. Google is your friend. |
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I know that there have been alot of issues documented with accidental/negligent discharges while using the SERPA holster. I know that certain agaencies/ and schools ban them. Has anyone ever contacted Blackhawk about this? I am curious as to thir response. I havent been able to locate anything online detailing Blackhawk's response to these issues. I am a firearms instructor with a state agency , and this topic came up in debate yesterday. ANy info is appreciated. Thanks! Hey Sarge., I'm pretty sure I know who you are. This is Jim M., Ask Billy G. at the range about his breaking. He still uses one even though he had one break off the paddle. Me personnally, I've seen them lock up after you tug on them, and sand locking them up. |
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I have a Serpa, and I think it's a good holster. But I don't use it for EDC as a citizen. LEOs and Military personnel have a need for retention in their duty carry. As a private citizen who carries concealed, the Serpa level of retention is too much for me. My pistol remains concealed unless I have to use it to defend myself. In that case I need a holster that enables me to get a firm firing grip the first time I access the pistol, and a smooth draw.
The Serpa is great for me if I am in the woods or on the range in some cases, but not as my ccw holster. |
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Quoted: I've even tried to get negligent discharges using snap caps and even purposefully doing everything wrong I couldn't make it happen. I don't know how people do it. It hurts your finger a lot when you cram it into the holster with your finger on the trigger doesnt it? It takes a very distinct pull of the trigger to the rear to get them to go off. I don't understand the trouble people have. |
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Yet it's much easier to be negligent with a SERPA. As an individual that risk is on you but for organizations it's a poor bet. Further, that debris may jam the SERPA is a fact that is beyond question. You may see that risk as being sufficiently remote as to be negligible but other users may see it as a needless risk. It's just a holster. Lots of other choices for holsters out there. People become emotionally invested in gear. |
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Yet it's much easier to be negligent with a SERPA. As an individual that risk is on you but for organizations it's a poor bet. Further, that debris may jam the SERPA is a fact that is beyond question. You may see that risk as being sufficiently remote as to be negligible but other users may see it as a needless risk. It's just a holster. Lots of other choices for holsters out there. this serpas, esp. compared to what is available and useful, is junk |
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Yet it's much easier to be negligent with a SERPA. As an individual that risk is on you but for organizations it's a poor bet. Further, that debris may jam the SERPA is a fact that is beyond question. You may see that risk as being sufficiently remote as to be negligible but other users may see it as a needless risk. It's just a holster. Lots of other choices for holsters out there. People become emotionally invested in gear. +1 no one ever wants to admit they choosed poorly when it comes to $$$s invested in shit gear. |
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I've even tried to get negligent discharges using snap caps and even purposefully doing everything wrong I couldn't make it happen. I don't know how people do it. I think people are having issues because they are pushing the release button with the point/tip of their finger instead of the finger pad. Doing this can make you end up with your finger in the trigger guard. |
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I've used them at the range because they can be found cheap on Amazon, roughly $25 vs 60-100 for a good leather holster. I bought them to compete with guns I'm not going to carry on a daily basis for whatever reason. They seem to work OK but the locking mechanism seems like it would be a problem in a high stress situation.
I've also seen people at competitions push something under the locking mechanism to keep it open so they don't have to push the button when drawing. Bad idea from my point of view. |
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I don't get that though. I've got boxes and boxes of shit gear I bought and abandoned. Me too. Including a Serpa. Most of us do. I have a used Serpa Level II duty holster for a the Sig P220 if anyone needs one. 
I give a lot of my crap away now though. I don't have enough room to keep all of my failures. |
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I know that there have been alot of issues documented with accidental/negligent discharges while using the SERPA holster. A lot? I think that's stretching it. Numbers or be quiet. When was the last time a PD sent out a bulletin about a string of ass shootings with a Safariland holster? Can you look on YouTube and find a dozen respected trainers showing you how dirt can lock a gun into a holster? Other than a SERPA I mean. |
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I don't get that though. I've got boxes and boxes of shit gear I bought and abandoned. Me too. Including a Serpa. Most of us do. I have a used Serpa Level II duty holster for a the Sig P220 if anyone needs one.
I give a lot of my crap away now though. I don't have enough room to keep all of my failures. Does the Sig P220 come with it? 
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I have a Safariland and a Serpa. I bought the Serpa for a motorcycle trip to New Mexico where I would be open carrying since concealing wouldn't have worked well if I took my jacket off to enjoy the weather with the wind blowing my t-shirt around. I wanted something with more retention for when I went in to get gas or whatever in case someone got stupid.
I heard all the horror stories about people blasting themselves with the Serpas, but now that I have one and trained with it I actually prefer it over the Safariland for open carry. Yes, there is a higher incidence of NDs with Serpas, so if you're prone to negligent behavior or idiocy I'd recommend that you avoid them. If you're willing to train with your gear and understand it's function and proper use I see no problem. |
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I have a Safariland and a Serpa. I bought the Serpa for a motorcycle trip to New Mexico where I would be open carrying since concealing wouldn't have worked well if I took my jacket off to enjoy the weather with the wind blowing my t-shirt around. I wanted something with more retention for when I went in to get gas or whatever in case someone got stupid. I heard all the horror stories about people blasting themselves with the Serpas, but now that I have one and trained with it I actually prefer it over the Safariland for open carry. Yes, there is a higher incidence of NDs with Serpas, so if you're prone to negligent behavior or idiocy I'd recommend that you avoid them. If you're willing to train with your gear and understand it's function and proper use I see no problem. The problem is that it's a poorly designed and cheaply manufactured piece of shit. But since it's readily available people will emotionally attach themselves to the $35 purchase with the cop out "works for me." |
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I don't get that though. I've got boxes and boxes of shit gear I bought and abandoned. Me too. Including a Serpa. Most of us do. I have a used Serpa Level II duty holster for a the Sig P220 if anyone needs one.
I give a lot of my crap away now though. I don't have enough room to keep all of my failures. Does the Sig P220 come with it? Sorry, it has found a new home in my Safariland. 
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I have a Safariland and a Serpa. I bought the Serpa for a motorcycle trip to New Mexico where I would be open carrying since concealing wouldn't have worked well if I took my jacket off to enjoy the weather with the wind blowing my t-shirt around. I wanted something with more retention for when I went in to get gas or whatever in case someone got stupid. I heard all the horror stories about people blasting themselves with the Serpas, but now that I have one and trained with it I actually prefer it over the Safariland for open carry. Yes, there is a higher incidence of NDs with Serpas, so if you're prone to negligent behavior or idiocy I'd recommend that you avoid them. If you're willing to train with your gear and understand it's function and proper use I see no problem. The problem is that it's a poorly designed and cheaply manufactured piece of shit. But since it's readily available people will emotionally attach themselves to the $35 purchase with the cop out "works for me." That's not my position, 35 bucks is nothing. I spent far more on my Safariland and my C-Tac. If I didn't like it I'd sell it for half of what I paid and forget about it the next day. I don't keep things around that I don't like, regardless of how much or little I invested. The Glock that goes inside the holster is cheaply manufactured, too, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a piece of shit. Sometimes cheap things work. |
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No, the Glock is inexpesively manufactured. It is still a quality item. I have seen how easily a serpa can be ripped from its mount. It is CHEAPLY made. Well, never ran into that problem when I carried an M9 in one in the Army and had it bashed against door frames, dragged on concrete and dirt, and snagged getting in and out of vehicles. I guess if I get into a situation as a civilian where I'll be using my Serpa in harsher conditions than war I'll have to take that into consideration. |
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No, the Glock is inexpesively manufactured. It is still a quality item. I have seen how easily a serpa can be ripped from its mount. It is CHEAPLY made. Well, never ran into that problem when I carried an M9 in one in the Army and had it bashed against door frames, dragged on concrete and dirt, and snagged getting in and out of vehicles. I guess if I get into a situation as a civilian where I'll be using my Serpa in harsher conditions than war I'll have to take that into consideration. Ever had someone rip it off your belt? It is suprisingly easy to do. ve never seen someone shoot themselves, but I’ve seen half a dozen SERPAs fail in use. Most recently was at the SHOT Show, when Todd Jarrett ripped his SERPA off his belt while demonstrating a weak-hand-only draw.
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Serpas are... suboptimal. Blackhawk! has been made aware of the holster's shortcomings. They redesigned the retention area to let debris fall out more easily. However the overall design is poor and the construction quality is poor.
Here's a thread from the Training Forum (that no one ever seems to go to) discussing the SERPA. |
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No, the Glock is inexpesively manufactured. It is still a quality item. I have seen how easily a serpa can be ripped from its mount. It is CHEAPLY made. Well, never ran into that problem when I carried an M9 in one in the Army and had it bashed against door frames, dragged on concrete and dirt, and snagged getting in and out of vehicles. I guess if I get into a situation as a civilian where I'll be using my Serpa in harsher conditions than war I'll have to take that into consideration. Ever had someone rip it off your belt? It is suprisingly easy to do. ve never seen someone shoot themselves, but I’ve seen half a dozen SERPAs fail in use. Most recently was at the SHOT Show, when Todd Jarrett ripped his SERPA off his belt while demonstrating a weak-hand-only draw. Obviously I have not. I'm not saying that the Serpa is some dream holster that never fails and I'm hoping that it's not coming off that way, all I'm saying is that I've yet to experience any of the types of failures described in this thread. Obviously they do happen, but I've never experienced them. I have experienced failures with other Blackhawk gear, particularly their poorly stitched nylon, so as a general rule I avoid their products. However, I like the retention system on the Serpa, so until I am aware of something of similar design but of higher quality construction I will continue to use it. |
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The 511/Bladetech Thumbdrive and the Safariland ALS holsters are a hundred times better.
The Serpa is not the first holster designed to retain a weapon by jamming a button into the trigger guard. It's an old design with newer cheap and brittle material instead of the original steel and leather. |
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No, the Glock is inexpesively manufactured. It is still a quality item. I have seen how easily a serpa can be ripped from its mount. It is CHEAPLY made. Well, never ran into that problem when I carried an M9 in one in the Army and had it bashed against door frames, dragged on concrete and dirt, and snagged getting in and out of vehicles. I guess if I get into a situation as a civilian where I'll be using my Serpa in harsher conditions than war I'll have to take that into consideration. Ever had someone rip it off your belt? It is suprisingly easy to do. ve never seen someone shoot themselves, but I’ve seen half a dozen SERPAs fail in use. Most recently was at the SHOT Show, when Todd Jarrett ripped his SERPA off his belt while demonstrating a weak-hand-only draw. Obviously I have not. I'm not saying that the Serpa is some dream holster that never fails and I'm hoping that it's not coming off that way, all I'm saying is that I've yet to experience any of the types of failures described in this thread. Obviously they do happen, but I've never experienced them. I have experienced failures with other Blackhawk gear, particularly their poorly stitched nylon, so as a general rule I avoid their products. However, I like the retention system on the Serpa, so until I am aware of something of similar design but of higher quality construction I will continue to use it. Why would anyone make a similar design? The design is stupid. That's the reason why every top instructor in the country has banned them from their classes and they are condemned by many LE agencies. I don't have a clue why anyone would think the retention design of the Serpa is better than that of the Safariland. "friends don't let friends use Serpas" was a direct quote from southnarc at the shivworks ecqc I was at a few weeks ago. These are called "clues." |
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No, the Glock is inexpesively manufactured. It is still a quality item. I have seen how easily a serpa can be ripped from its mount. It is CHEAPLY made. Well, never ran into that problem when I carried an M9 in one in the Army and had it bashed against door frames, dragged on concrete and dirt, and snagged getting in and out of vehicles. I guess if I get into a situation as a civilian where I'll be using my Serpa in harsher conditions than war I'll have to take that into consideration. Ever had someone rip it off your belt? It is suprisingly easy to do. ve never seen someone shoot themselves, but I’ve seen half a dozen SERPAs fail in use. Most recently was at the SHOT Show, when Todd Jarrett ripped his SERPA off his belt while demonstrating a weak-hand-only draw. Obviously I have not. I'm not saying that the Serpa is some dream holster that never fails and I'm hoping that it's not coming off that way, all I'm saying is that I've yet to experience any of the types of failures described in this thread. Obviously they do happen, but I've never experienced them. I have experienced failures with other Blackhawk gear, particularly their poorly stitched nylon, so as a general rule I avoid their products. However, I like the retention system on the Serpa, so until I am aware of something of similar design but of higher quality construction I will continue to use it. Why would anyone make a similar design? The design is stupid. That's the reason why every top instructor in the country has banned them from their classes and they are condemned by many LE agencies. I don't have a clue why anyone would think the retention design of the Serpa is better than that of the Safariland. "friends don't let friends use Serpas" was a direct quote from southnarc at the shivworks ecqc I was at a few weeks ago. These are called "clues." I get it, it's really cool to hate Serpas this week, but I like the design of the retention system and would rather see it improved than done away with. I don't really care too much about who said what where. I had one before, used it, have one now, use it, and I simply don't have problems with it. This is called "hands on experience". |
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I get it, it's really cool to hate Serpas this week, but I like the design of the retention system and would rather see it improved than done away with. I don't really care too much about who said what where. I had one before, used it, have one now, use it, and I simply don't have problems with it. This is called "hands on experience". I had one too. First holster I ever bought. Rock on with your sample size of you, though. "works for me"..........yup, until it doesn't. |
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I get it, it's really cool to hate Serpas this week, but I like the design of the retention system and would rather see it improved than done away with. I don't really care too much about who said what where. I had one before, used it, have one now, use it, and I simply don't have problems with it. This is called "hands on experience". I had one too. First holster I ever bought. Rock on with your sample size of you, though. "works for me"..........yup, until it doesn't. Mine is the 7th holster I've ever bought, and third for this particular gun, second for open carry with this particular gun. I'll let you know if I shoot myself in the leg or get shot because I was trying to roll away on the gravel during a gun fight and a pebble jammed the mechanism, but don't hold your breath. |
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Quoted: ....... Yes, there is a higher incidence of NDs with Serpas, so if you're prone to negligent behavior or idiocy I'd recommend that you avoid them. If you're willing to train with your gear and understand it's function and proper use I see no problem. Quoted: I get it, it's really cool to hate Serpas this week, but I like the design of the retention system and would rather see it improved than done away with. I don't really care too much about who said what where. I had one before, used it, have one now, use it, and I simply don't have problems with it. This is called "hands on experience". Quoted: Mine is the 7th holster I've ever bought, and third for this particular gun, second for open carry with this particular gun. I'll let you know if I shoot myself in the leg or get shot because I was trying to roll away on the gravel during a gun fight and a pebble jammed the mechanism, but don't hold your breath. Talk about an ego .......  |
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I toted a SERPA around for a year in Iraq, it never gave me issues with debris getting in it, never gummed up, and I agree with the above posters, it's generally negligence of the user, not a problem with the holster when someone has an ND. +1, lots of sand and sun in mine and never had a problem. |
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....... Yes, there is a higher incidence of NDs with Serpas, so if you're prone to negligent behavior or idiocy I'd recommend that you avoid them. If you're willing to train with your gear and understand it's function and proper use I see no problem. Quoted:
I get it, it's really cool to hate Serpas this week, but I like the design of the retention system and would rather see it improved than done away with. I don't really care too much about who said what where. I had one before, used it, have one now, use it, and I simply don't have problems with it. This is called "hands on experience". Quoted:
Mine is the 7th holster I've ever bought, and third for this particular gun, second for open carry with this particular gun. I'll let you know if I shoot myself in the leg or get shot because I was trying to roll away on the gravel during a gun fight and a pebble jammed the mechanism, but don't hold your breath. Talk about an ego .......
Talk about failure to observe other posters talking down to me like this is my first rodeo leading to my responses above. My tone is a direct reflection of your attitude. |