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12/30/2013 3:39:45 PM EDT
is a pistol always a pistol even if you add a stock or is a SBR a rifle that is shortened?

or is it both?
12/30/2013 3:53:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
is a pistol always a pistol even if you add a stock or is a SBR a rifle that is shortened?

or is it both?
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So what you're asking is... if you make a pistol into a rifle.. is it still a pistol?


Need I go on?
12/30/2013 3:57:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote History
Quoted:



So what you're asking is... if you make a pistol into a rifle.. is it still a pistol?


Need I go on?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
is a pistol always a pistol even if you add a stock or is a SBR a rifle that is shortened?

or is it both?



So what you're asking is... if you make a pistol into a rifle.. is it still a pistol?


Need I go on?

12/30/2013 4:04:37 PM EDT
[#3]
I had read some information that suggested a pistol bought as a pistol is still considered a pistol even if a stock is added.

On paper sure, but legally I believed it to be a SBR. I just wanted to make sure I was not leading myself down a incorrect path.
12/30/2013 4:22:58 PM EDT
[#4]
If you put a stock on it you now have an SBR.
12/30/2013 4:57:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Cool.

Thanks guys.
12/30/2013 6:14:49 PM EDT
[#6]
So if it is a SBR, the stock can never be removed?
12/30/2013 6:29:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote History
Quoted:
If you put a stock on it you now have an SBR.
View Quote


There's come gray area to this, but essentially it's true. There was a great discussion on this topic with ATF letters and such. If I find it I'll post it.
12/30/2013 6:45:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Someone was telling me that you can add a stock to a pistol and it's still a "pistol" but a rifle cut down is definitely a sbr.

Basically referring to gray area.

Did some reading and some stuff seemed gray other stuff is very clear.
12/30/2013 8:18:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Once a pistol has a stock attached to it, it becomes a rifle (depending upon the length of the barrel and overall it may become an SBR).  

If you cut a rifle barrel down or re=attach a barrel less than 16 inches then it also becomes an SBR.

Once it has been created and registered as an NFA item (SBR) then it is always an NFA item.  BTW, register and get you paperwork back from the NFA branch BEFORE doing the work.

To make things more confusing, say you have an AR pistol....you can push the pins and put a 16" barreled upper on it and then a butt stock and you have a rifle.  But you can not take a rifle and then make it a pistol (less than 16" barrel.

R
12/30/2013 9:10:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote History
Quoted:
Once a pistol has a stock attached to it, it becomes a rifle (depending upon the length of the barrel and overall it may become an SBR).  

If you cut a rifle barrel down or re=attach a barrel less than 16 inches then it also becomes an SBR.

Once it has been created and registered as an NFA item (SBR) then it is always an NFA item.  BTW, register and get you paperwork back from the NFA branch BEFORE doing the work.

To make things more confusing, say you have an AR pistol....you can push the pins and put a 16" barreled upper on it and then a butt stock and you have a rifle.  But you can not take a rifle and then make it a pistol (less than 16" barrel.

R
View Quote


Not true. I've removed an SBR from the registry before in order to sell it. The guy wanted it bad enough that he paid my initial $200 on the stamp to remove it and permanently add an extension to make it a rifle.
12/31/2013 4:22:25 AM EDT
[#11]

Quote History
Quoted:
Not true. I've removed an SBR from the registry before in order to sell it. The guy wanted it bad enough that he paid my initial $200 on the stamp to remove it and permanently add an extension to make it a rifle.
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Quoted:



Quoted:

Once a pistol has a stock attached to it, it becomes a rifle (depending upon the length of the barrel and overall it may become an SBR).  



If you cut a rifle barrel down or re=attach a barrel less than 16 inches then it also becomes an SBR.



Once it has been created and registered as an NFA item (SBR) then it is always an NFA item.  BTW, register and get you paperwork back from the NFA branch BEFORE doing the work.



To make things more confusing, say you have an AR pistol....you can push the pins and put a 16" barreled upper on it and then a butt stock and you have a rifle.  But you can not take a rifle and then make it a pistol (less than 16" barrel.



R




Not true. I've removed an SBR from the registry before in order to sell it. The guy wanted it bad enough that he paid my initial $200 on the stamp to remove it and permanently add an extension to make it a rifle.
this.



 
12/31/2013 5:40:28 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote History
Quoted:
To make things more confusing, say you have an AR pistol....you can push the pins and put a 16" barreled upper on it and then a butt stock and you have a rifle.  But you can not take a rifle and then make it a pistol (less than 16" barrel.
View Quote



Also not true.  http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf
12/31/2013 5:47:05 AM EDT
[#13]

Quote History
Quoted:


Someone was telling me that you can add a stock to a pistol and it's still a "pistol" but a rifle cut down is definitely a sbr.



Basically referring to gray area.



Did some reading and some stuff seemed gray other stuff is very clear.
View Quote




 
It isn't a gray area.  Your "someone" only gave you half the information.  I'm guessing the "someone" was referring to the Thompson/Center findings: (http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf)




Pistol -> rifle -> pistol
12/31/2013 6:23:27 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote History
Quoted:

  It isn't a gray area.  Your "someone" only gave you half the information.  I'm guessing the "someone" was referring to the Thompson/Center findings: (http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf)

Pistol -> rifle -> pistol
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Someone was telling me that you can add a stock to a pistol and it's still a "pistol" but a rifle cut down is definitely a sbr.

Basically referring to gray area.

Did some reading and some stuff seemed gray other stuff is very clear.

  It isn't a gray area.  Your "someone" only gave you half the information.  I'm guessing the "someone" was referring to the Thompson/Center findings: (http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf)

Pistol -> rifle -> pistol



He, a coworker, was talking about making an sbr. I really want one as well, but I was under impression it's a no go in WA state. He did some lunch time Internet googlebox searching and found all sorts of good and gray info. Then explained it to me, which also means half the important info was left out
12/31/2013 6:30:11 AM EDT
[#15]
So the rifles that cnc warrior sells with a fake can attached are good to go?
12/31/2013 6:30:29 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote History
Quoted:
He, a coworker, was talking about making an sbr. I really want one as well, but I was under impression it's a no go in WA state. He did some lunch time Internet googlebox searching and found all sorts of good and gray info. Then explained it to me, which also means half the important info was left out
View Quote



Correct.  They are forbidden in WA.  http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.190
12/31/2013 6:32:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote History
Quoted:
So the rifles that cnc warrior sells with a fake can attached are good to go?
View Quote


Correct.  An extension that brings the barrel to 16" and is permanently attached is a legal configuration.
12/31/2013 7:26:37 AM EDT
[#18]
OK. So that appears to be as close to sbr as one can get here in WA.

I told the wife I would get one rifle and one pistol this year. I wanted a short Ak variant so that might be the ticket
12/31/2013 7:56:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Not a bad idea. I bought one and may or may not SBR it. Depends on how much I like it.
12/31/2013 8:08:28 AM EDT
[#20]

Quote History
Quoted:


OK. So that appears to be as close to sbr as one can get here in WA.

View Quote
To me, a traditional rifle with a 16" pipe isn't "close to an SBR" and at that point you'd be better off with a full 16" rifled barrel.



To me, a bullpup carbine such as an AUG or Tavor would give you a compact rifle with a legal 16" barrel in an SBR-sized package. Not sure if bullpups are legal in your locale, though.



 
12/31/2013 8:13:45 AM EDT
[#21]
I believe they are, bullpup that is.

But sbr is no go.

I am picking up a 10mm tangfolio match today.

I'll wait and make a decision on the short ak
12/31/2013 8:35:47 AM EDT
[#22]

Quote History
Quoted:


I believe they are, bullpup that is.



But sbr is no go.



I am picking up a 10mm tangfolio match today.



I'll wait and make a decision on the short ak
View Quote
if you don't mind, shoot me an IM when you get it and shoot it and let me know what you think. Been eyeballing them as well.



Back on track, I don't have any issues with the faux cans. They do create quite a blast and a lot of noise though.



 
12/31/2013 9:24:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Will do.
12/31/2013 10:22:20 AM EDT
[#24]
Does anyone know If I sbr a M85 PAP, can I ever remove the stock and use it as a pistol while maintaining SBR status.

I do know of the pistol > rifle rule and the rifle > pistol rule (no go) but am not sure if it applies to sbrs.

Thanks.
12/31/2013 12:19:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Yes, you can always take the stock off of an SBR so that it resembles a pistol and put it back on at will.  With the stock "off" it is still classified as an SBR even though it resembles a pistol.  I do this all the time with my MP5-K.  With the stock off it looks like a pistol with a vert grip up front but it is still an SBR.
12/31/2013 7:39:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote History
Quoted:
I believe they are, bullpup that is.

But sbr is no go.

I am picking up a 10mm tangfolio match today.

I'll wait and make a decision on the short ak
View Quote



I'm waiting for my Tavor to come in, it's going to be 5" shorter than my Draco sbr with stock extended, but much longer than when the dracos stock is folded.  Food for thought maybe.
1/1/2014 12:20:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote History
Quoted:


Not true. I've removed an SBR from the registry before in order to sell it. The guy wanted it bad enough that he paid my initial $200 on the stamp to remove it and permanently add an extension to make it a rifle.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Once a pistol has a stock attached to it, it becomes a rifle (depending upon the length of the barrel and overall it may become an SBR).  

If you cut a rifle barrel down or re=attach a barrel less than 16 inches then it also becomes an SBR.

Once it has been created and registered as an NFA item (SBR) then it is always an NFA item.  BTW, register and get you paperwork back from the NFA branch BEFORE doing the work.

To make things more confusing, say you have an AR pistol....you can push the pins and put a 16" barreled upper on it and then a butt stock and you have a rifle.  But you can not take a rifle and then make it a pistol (less than 16" barrel.

R


Not true. I've removed an SBR from the registry before in order to sell it. The guy wanted it bad enough that he paid my initial $200 on the stamp to remove it and permanently add an extension to make it a rifle.


Wow, have never heard of that.  

R
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