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Posted: 12/7/2009 6:26:11 AM EDT
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Ok.
One has a triangle with nothing in it. Two has a triangle with an upward directional arrow in it. What is the difference? Were there 2 different arsenals? Just trying to learn more about my rifles.... thanks in advance! |
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The minimum I can say is that on rifles built sometime during 1980 and later the Romanians left the arrow off on "G" rifles.
It may be that they left the arrow off non "G" rifles as well. Does the rifle without the arrow have a serial number dated 1980 or later? Does the rifle without the arrow also have an "S" in the serial number? If the answer to both questions is Yes your rifle was built from a "G" rifle (which was originally produced for the Romanian equivalent of our NG). |
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IIRC from some vague threads on the many Romy arsenals;
The standard national Romy marking was the triangle with arrow that was used back to at least the Mosins and SKS guns. The arrow was initially dropped from the triangle on those trunnons originally meant for 5.45x39 "AKM-74" guns to differ from the 7.62 guns. Then dropped completely once they realized that the trunnions were compatible with either barrel at around 1980. |
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IIRC from some vague threads on the many Romy arsenals; The standard national Romy marking was the triangle with arrow that was used back to at least the Mosins and SKS guns. The arrow was initially dropped from the triangle on those trunnons originally meant for 5.45x39 "AKM-74" guns to differ from the 7.62 guns. Then dropped completely once they realized that the trunnions were compatible with either barrel at around 1980. So, I have a WASR 10/63 that has an arrow in triangle with a 1986 build date. I guess they didn't completely drop the arrow/triangle |
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IIRC from some vague threads on the many Romy arsenals; The standard national Romy marking was the triangle with arrow that was used back to at least the Mosins and SKS guns. The arrow was initially dropped from the triangle on those trunnons originally meant for 5.45x39 "AKM-74" guns to differ from the 7.62 guns. Then dropped completely once they realized that the trunnions were compatible with either barrel at around 1980. So, I have a WASR 10/63 that has an arrow in triangle with a 1986 build date. I guess they didn't completely drop the arrow/triangle I have a 10/63 dated 1989 and it has no triangle. |
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So, I have a WASR 10/63 that has an arrow in triangle with a 1986 build date. I guess they didn't completely drop the arrow/triangle Let me guess, yours doesn't have an "S" in the serial number. If not, the donor rifle was built for issue to the Romanian military. |
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So, I have a WASR 10/63 that has an arrow in triangle with a 1986 build date. I guess they didn't completely drop the arrow/triangle Let me guess, yours doesn't have an "S" in the serial number. If not, the donor rifle was built for issue to the Romanian military. No, it doesn't have an S, just the arrow and triangle, a date of 1986 and the two letter, four number code. The bolt carrier, bolt, gas tube, rear sight, and receiver cover all have that same two letters, two numbers stamped on them. Everything is arrow straight as well, no front sight or gas block cant. Extremely happy with what I have considering what I paid for it. |
| I have WASR-10's with triangle-arrow arsenal stamps and 1977, 1973, and 1971 dates on trunnions. Guess just leftover Cugir parts that ended up in Sadu parts bins, as their commercial guns were supposedly to be sanitized like my WASR22's, WASR2, and older WASR10. Whatever, makes for interesting BS. |
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There is no big mystery to this.
WASRs (10, 2,3) made before the '05 barrel ban were made from new parts. Those rifles do not have any arsenal mark and the serial number does not conform to the sequence used for issue rifles (letters and digits). Those rifles I have seen have a serial number which is five digits followed by a dash (-) followed by two digits, which is the year of manufacture. (Example XXXXX-04) WASR 10/63s (produced after the barrel ban) are made by disassembling existing rifles and rebuilding them on a single stack receiver which can be exported from Romania and imported into the US. The serial numbers on those rifles will conform to the sequence for Romanian issue rifles. Some of the original rifles were made for issue to the Romanian military. Those seem to have the sequence of two letters followed by four digits followed by two digits which is the date of manufacture. (Example AF XXXX 75) However, some variation in the sequence exists. It seems that all of the rifles made for the Romanian military have the arrow in triangle arsenal mark regardless of date of manufacture. Other donor rifles were made for issue to the Romanian Civil Guard ("G" rifles). As posted previously, the "G" rifles made before the change (sometime in 1980) have the arrow in triangle arsenal mark and have a serial number with the date of manufacture followed by two letters followed by four digits. (Example 1979 AG XXXX) "G" rifles made after the change have the triangle without the arrow, and have a serial number with the date of manufacture followed by the letter "S" a dash (-), two letters and four digits. (Example 1982S- AB XXXX) |
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There is no big mystery to this. WASRs (10, 2,3) made before the '05 barrel ban were made from new parts. Those rifles do not have any arsenal mark and the serial number does not conform to the sequence used for issue rifles (letters and digits). Those rifles I have seen have a serial number which is five digits followed by a dash (-) followed by two digits, which is the year of manufacture. (Example XXXXX-04) WASR 10/63s (produced after the barrel ban) are made by disassembling existing rifles and rebuilding them on a single stack receiver which can be exported from Romania and imported into the US. The serial numbers on those rifles will conform to the sequence for Romanian issue rifles. Some of the original rifles were made for issue to the Romanian military. Those seem to have the sequence of two letters followed by four digits followed by two digits which is the date of manufacture. (Example AF XXXX 75) However, some variation in the sequence exists. It seems that all of the rifles made for the Romanian military have the arrow in triangle arsenal mark regardless of date of manufacture. Other donor rifles were made for issue to the Romanian Civil Guard ("G" rifles). As posted previously, the "G" rifles made before the change (sometime in 1980) have the arrow in triangle arsenal mark and have a serial number with the date of manufacture followed by two letters followed by four digits. (Example 1979 AG XXXX) "G" rifles made after the change have the triangle without the arrow, and have a serial number with the date of manufacture followed by the letter "S" a dash (-), two letters and four digits. (Example 1982S- AB XXXX) Or...like my WASR 10/63...Arrow in triangle, 1986 AA73xx no date after the four numbers |
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Some of the original rifles were made for issue to the Romanian military. Those seem to have the sequence of two letters followed by four digits followed by two digits which is the date of manufacture. (Example AF XXXX 75) However, some variation in the sequence exists. Or...like my WASR 10/63...Arrow in triangle, 1986 AA73xx no date after the four numbers That's the "some variation in the sequence". |
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My 10/63 UF is marked AH XXXX 1989. No triangle or arrow. People have speculated that the rifles made without an arsenal mark were made for export. That is consistent with the WASRs produced from new parts, but it's not clear to me why the Romanians would have a supply of rifles which they produced for export. Logically, rifles made for export wouldn't be produced unless there was an order and wouldn't end up laying around in a Romanian warehouse for 20 years. But applying logic to the actions of a Communist regime may be an exercise in futility. |
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My 10/63 UF is marked AH XXXX 1989. No triangle or arrow. People have speculated that the rifles made without an arsenal mark were made for export. That is consistent with the WASRs produced from new parts, but it's not clear to me why the Romanians would have a supply of rifles which they produced for export. Logically, rifles made for export wouldn't be produced unless there was an order and wouldn't end up laying around in a Romanian warehouse for 20 years. But applying logic to the actions of a Communist regime may be an exercise in futility. Perhaps they were intended as sanitary military aid for revolutionaries. No markings to identify the country of origin? |
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"Perhaps they were intended as sanitary military aid for revolutionaries. No markings to identify the country of origin?"
That makes perfect sense. In MANY of the news footage coming from Africa, Iraq, and Afgha-pakistan - you will see a ton of Romy equipt on both sides. Given that Caucesceu (sp?) ran his Russian-puppet country like Zimbabwe, he put a ton of AKMs into the wrong hands over the years on behalf of the Kremlin and in contempt of his own country's well-being. As an aside; close-up pics on this board and others of trunnions and RSBs of "PLO-builds" and BFPUs and Khybers sure have me thinking that foregrip aside, our Romy AKMs are really close to passing for Russian AKMs. |
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My 10/63 UF is marked AH XXXX 1989. No triangle or arrow. People have speculated that the rifles made without an arsenal mark were made for export. That is consistent with the WASRs produced from new parts, but it's not clear to me why the Romanians would have a supply of rifles which they produced for export. Logically, rifles made for export wouldn't be produced unless there was an order and wouldn't end up laying around in a Romanian warehouse for 20 years. But applying logic to the actions of a Communist regime may be an exercise in futility. Perhaps they were intended as sanitary military aid for revolutionaries. No markings to identify the country of origin? That's possible, except some of the kits I've seen without arsenal marks had the distinctive VFG and all of them had the lightening cuts on the fsb. If the Romanians were trying to sanitize the rifles they didn't do a very good job. But come to think of it, governments do stupid things like that all the time. In the late 60's and early 70's the US produced "sterile" 7.62x39 to supply indigenous forces in SEA armed with AKs and SKSs ... with boxer primed brass cases. I'm sure that no one could figure out where that ammunition came from! |
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