AK Sponsor
Posted: 6/15/2007 2:34:40 PM EDT
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My AK without the slant is exactly 25 inches from the end of the barrel to the back of the stamped receiver. With the slant I get 26 inches. If I add an AK74 type brake I get 28 inches. I guess I would be willing to spot weld the brake to make it permanent. I figure that a Romanian wire side folder mechanism would add another inch. I don't have one to measure so maybe someone can check that for me. So with the AK74 brake and Romy wire side folder I can get 29 inches. So I will be greater than 26 inches when folded but only 29 inches unfolded. Is this still a legal rifle in Michigan without any additional permits?? For some reason the number 30 inches sticks in my head |
I've asked this question in the MI HTF before. You would need team member access to pull it up. The Romanian lever type folder extends 1 1/4" rearward of the receiver. With a permanently affixed 22mm brake on my SAR-2 the overall folded length is 28 1/4". Length of rifle with the stock extended is 36 1/4". Measure from the back of the folding stock mechanism to the end of whatever brake you are using and the rifle will be over 26" folded. SAR-1 is 25" from rear of receiver to end of muzzle with no device. Add 1 1/4" for the installation of the folding stock receiver block and this gives you a length of 26 1/4 inches. You could get by with silver soldering the brake on. That way if it ever needed to be removed for repair or switching out muzzle devices you just heat it back up and remove the device and clean the threads up. I have done it several times. You're going to have to register it in MI with a pistol permit.  www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf |
What is the problem with getting a pistol permit if you want the rifle to have the folder? |
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Pistol permit is required to purchase a rifle that is less than 30" in length with stock folded. Barrel must be at least 16", and the total length no less than 26 inches. In the case of AK underfolder, the measurement is taken from the tip of slant compensator to the back end of pistol grip (the farthermost point of the rifle) If measured from the tip of compensator to the back of receiver, AK underfolder would be 1/4" too short to meet the 26" requirement, and you would not see any for sale in Michigan. No need to solder, pin, or weld muzzle devices. |
He is talking a sidefolder here though and it measures 1 1/4" longer due to the folding stock mechanism. He wants it over 30" folded so he doesn't need to get the pistol permit. Why do you not want to get the pistol permit? It isn't that big of a deal, least it wasn't when I moved back to MI bringing pistols from SD.
That's what I said once before and was told I was wrong. Only justification people who said I was wrong could come up with is that Global Military Gunsmithing said so. Oh well, isn't his shop his garage? Looks like it in the pictures posted. |
some of the police agencies make them difficult to get, in violation of state law, by limiting the hours or days of week they are availble. Unfortunately you have to get it where you live. so if your PD says third thursday of each month, between 11AM and 12:30PM you cant just go the next county over. |
If the barrel is over 16" and at least 26" folded it is not a SBR. If it is under 30 it is a pistol according to the link. FWIW - If it is registered as a pistol can you carry it in your car on the front seat loaded like a pistol? ETA - I read the link. |
| Where I lived I knew all the police chiefs at the time having grown up with them or their kids. Never gave me any problem. When I move back in 2009 I'll probably have to go to county sheriff as I won't be living in the town limits anymore. They are going to be busy with all my pistol I now have. |
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Well to be honest, I'm just stupid when it comes to filling out the papers and what to do about a pistol permit. Plus I feel better knowing that the PD knows less about my collection. Guess I'll have to study up on how and where to get a pistol perit in my area |
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It's been awhile since I did it, but I filled out a purchase permit the last time I bought a pistol in Michigan, you then had so many days to buy the pistol which you then returned to the police station to have a safety inspection done. The safety inspection consisted of them filling out a card "Safety Inspection Certificate" with all info on the permit and a thumbprint. Last one I got was in 1992 so I don't know if any changes have been made. I had to fill out purchase permits for firearms I had already owned in other states when I moved back to Michigan. The back side of the permit states; "State law prohibits the furnishing, loaning, giving or selling of this weapon to another unless that person (including gun dealers) first obtains a license to purchase a pistol. Violation of this law is a criminal offense." "Penalty: Misdemeanor/Forfeiture of pistol" So, if someone has your rifle in their possession and it is registered as a pistol you could end up losing it. Still want a folder? I guess you could check out Blackjack Buffers or veriforcetactical.com for an extra long flashhider to get it up to 30". The Bulgarian type would need the 14x1 to 24mm adapter and is 3 1/4" long. That would still only bring you up to 29" folded. You might want to contact one of the guys over at gunco.net that makes custom parts, I believe member hotbarrel over there does this and see if he has an 4 1/4" muzzle devices. 
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| I already owned the pistol I brought in from SD and they filled that out and then immediately filled out the pistol permit. Since you are going to change the rifle from full stock to folding stock I would take it down there (leave it in the car) and have the folding stock with you if you have it. Talk to whomever does their permits and explain that you want to install the stock and have it registered on a pistol permit. |
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You don't need the purchase permit. You take the rifle in and have it This is all being done on the interpretation of the law by an old AG that anything under 30" is a pistol. I wish we could get a new interpretation. They need to do away with the underhanded handgun registration as well. |
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If I bring in my "pistol" rifle for safety inspection, aren't I actually in possession of any illegal weapon prior to the inspection?? Also what if I deide just to get a purchase permit and buy an AK pistol. Do part contents apply? There are a few neat looking AK47 pistols with muzzle nuts that I would want to add a brake. |
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Screw it! I'm going to get a purchase permit and just buy one of these instead of trying to figure out how to make a short gun out of what I already own. www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1298 |
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Putting a Romanian folding stock on your rifle is reversible if you don't like it. If you buy a AK pistol and you don't like it, you're left with selling it and the buyer in MI has to go through the whole process again of getting a permit. You may get much less out of it if you try to sell it. Whereas, selling an AK rifle (other than a WASR) you can almost always make money on the deal if you make a good initial purchase. Getting the thing registered is not that big of deal.
Take a look above and you will see in the pictures I posted that they still filled out a purchase permit in my case for a weapon I already had. They filled them both out at the same time. |
Not to derail the thread, but Ken is a hell of a gunsmith, even if he does work out of his garage. Never known anybody to be displeased with him. Even Chris Butler, questionably the best smith in the country, works out of an apartment or condo or something, and it's about as crowded and messy as Ken's place. Look at the work Chris puts out... Oh, and Michigan gun laws suck ass. I need to move so I can build a Krink 
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I don't take legal advice from people who build guns out of a garage. I take legal advice from attorneys when I need it. People who build firearms are not always up on legal technicalities. I also wouldn't hire a lawyer who works out of his car. I work on guns out of my garage too, but I don't tell people to take my legal advise without getting a second opinion from someone with more experience than myself (I do have some background in Criminal Justice, some knowledge of criminal law and 20 years of working with people who break the law including firearms laws). It has been posted before here that he insists that muzzle devices are blind pinned and welded to be legal to bring the length up to what is required. I'd like someone to show me in Michigan state law where it states that. During the AWB the ATF didn't require that, silver solder requiring a certain temp was all that was required. I also don't take what a gun store clerk tells me as gospel. And one of the best known AK smiths a couple of years back worked out of a chicken coop. He was supposed to be an artist with his builds but most of us remember how that ended. Anyone that does some builds, has proper equipment, does their research, takes their time and has half the ability of most of the guys here can do a build as good as many of the garage gungods. It just depends on whether they want to spend the time doing it and advancing their skills in building and finishing the rifles they want. They also have to overcome the fear that they may screw up. ShermiesRule, look what you may have to deal with in an AK pistol. |
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OK here is the scoop. Went to the cop shop. Although it's not that difficult there are a lot of steps in a very tight time period First you need to come in to fill out the application, take a small test and pay a notory fee. Unfortunately you have to come between 7am and 3pm M-F Then you have 10 days to acquire your weapon and bring it back to the cop shop between 7am and 3pm M-F. |
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