AK Sponsor
Posted: 1/22/2007 1:45:19 PM EDT
I would and am going with the Saiga 12 Gauge. You can get the sporter model for a decent price and then aftermarket it with a side folder, cut down the barrel, add a flash hider and bayo lug and get very close to the ones they issue to Spetsnaz. Plus with a 10 round mag I figure its the most likely to be banned. The other models will probably stay under the radar as "sporting" rifles. But 10 rounds semi auto shotgun? Its a hand cannon. Cheers, RWB64 |
.308. Easy to convert as you don't need to deal with bullet guides or extra holes in the receiver. US 20 round mags available. Good supply of ammo with a more powerful round though it is more expensive. You can always reload and ammo will always be available. I think the value of a converted .308 is higher than the other calibers and if the rifles stop coming in it's value will increase substantially. I got mine for about $335.09 with tax and the conversion took me 3 hours with parts I already had.
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I have both the .308 and the .223. The .308 is easier to do the basic conversion on. If you want to add a muzzle brake though it's a real bitch. I get 3 MOA out of my .308 with ammo that it likes. I have shot groups much smaller than that, but if I shoot ten shots from a bench I can only count on keeping them in a 3" circle. High cap mags are available now, but they cost an arm and a leg. With a folding stock on it it it's the most compact battle rifle you can get and recoil isn't bad at all. The .223 is more accurate. I get about 2 MOA with good ammo. There are also lots of cheap high cap mags available for it, but you have to alter the rifle to fit them. The conversion process is a little more involved, but it's also much easier to add a muzzle brake. |
The first firearm I purchased was a Mossberg 590 A1 parkerized with factory ghost sights. Since I was COMPLETELY ignorant of firearms at the time I researched it for about a year before deciding what to purchase. The shotgun is an amazingly practical home defense weapon. It provides a wide range of ammo from less than lethal rounds to the exotic rounds that are supposed to be armour piercing to Dragonsbreath. If I recall correctly Ol' Painless and the Box O Truth did some testing and it had the least amount of over penetration, a serious consideration when defending the home from an intruder and not wanting to kill or injure loved ones in the next room or apartment. With slugs the best range on a good shotgun that a practiced shooter is going to get is 75-100 yards. In reading reviews of the Saiga 12 it was said that the average person could knock down 5 targets in three seconds. I'd have to refind the site to see what the range was. Its got the Kalashnikov reliability factor and has up to a 10 round magazine. A magazine loaded SG is inherently safer IMHO than any other. Without a mag in it, its essentially a club. I say this because some folks have younger children. If the SG was under the bed and the mag in the night stand or taped up under the bed its unlikely junior could find it and load it. When you experience an adrenaline dump the first thing that goes is your fine motor skills. Slapping in a mag isn't a fine motor skill, chambering a round is. I have never experienced a problem with recoil on my SG. Now I am a big guy but the big problem as I have read is that a lot of people somehow place the stock over a nerve (I think its called the radial nerve) and it hurts like hell when they shoot. And then they are afraid of it. Versatility of ammo is great. Get the proper muzzle break and (wearing eye protection) door locks go POOF with a breacher round. Afraid you might shoot your drunken nephew that has stumbled in your house unannounced? Try a pepper round and just season him lightly and get him to clean it up the next day. A flash-bang will stun people for a few seconds. The improved beanbags CAN kill but a shot to center mass will make a big guy sit down not wanting to do anything for a while. There are incindiary rounds available. And of course what other weapon offers the option of spitting out a 4000 degree wall of fire? Full auto? Who needs it when depending on the gauge you are spitting out 12 or 9 .32 caliber projectiles with each trigger pull? I am not putting down any of the other calibers. If I had the money I would buy one of each and modify them. I guess it all depends on what you think you are going to use it for. If you are planning on being part of a militia in a SHTF scenario and the enemy is armed as well and you are going for the 100-300 meter battle range then get one of the others. If you want a lot of versatility and are doing CQC and home defense get the 12 gauge. Shotguns in general are considered in all probability the last firearm to be banned should it come to that. By the way if there are any machinist/mechanical geniuses out there I would really like to talk about an idea I have for a drum mag for the Saiga 12. Don't know if its feasable yet. Please feel free to contact me privately. Just my two cents. A firearm is a tool. Select the tool that best fits your needs or anticipated needs. Cheers, RWB64 |
I would have to dissagree. Give me a 12ga and a box of 100 shells and a AK with 1000 rnds and I would have more fun with the 12ga. Go out in the woods or something with both. You can shoot all the moving targets you want with the AK. With the 12ga you can literaly blow things up. The 12ga just has that effect on things. Got a pesky tree in your back yard you wanna get rid of? Just grab you Saiga and go have a blast! Dont get me wrong, I love shooting M4's and have yet to shoot an AK, but shotguns just have that effect on things that makes you want to shoot it again and again just to see things splatter. |
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I'm springing for the 7.62x39 version just to keep ammo logistics easy (third M43 rifle we'll have) and it takes AK mags that I've already got. Thinking about getting a 5.56 one for a hardcore conversion though...And no I don't just mean the pistol grip and Galil mag conversion. 
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Shooting shotguns at stationary targets is like breaking things with a sledgehammer. There's a lot of power there and the destruction can be fun, but there's no challenge or skill involved whatsoever. After you've seen a couple of milk jugs explode and perhaps knocked down a tree, what else is there to do with it? It's literally fun for about five minutes. Shotguns are great for hunting, defense and clay pigeons, but I think that the average rifleman will quickly become bored with their performance unless they decide to take up skeet or sporting clays. |
Everybody finds different things fun. I could have a blast with a shotty for a long time. I can also have fun with rifles, assault rifles, and handguns just the same. What it comes down to is your reasons for shooting. If you go to the range to shoot paper targets all day then your more than likely not going to go out into the woods just to blast some trees down. Your more than likely there to get better aim and what not. Now if you go to the range for same reasons that I do then you would have probably have just as much fun with a shotty. I go to the range not only to shoot paper targets (the longest I shoot at is 50-100m since i dont use a scope on any of my rifles.) but to shoot everything else that I can safely shoot. Ill pick up shotty shells and place them at the 50m mark and try to hit the with my iron sights, or Ill bring some phone books and shoot the hell out of them, and sometimes I go and just unload the ammo I brought. There are many ways to have loads of fun with firearms and some people like other ways better than others. I am still saving money on the side here and there so I can finally get a FA. Im undecided at what to get for the FA but I would prefer it along the lines of a M240B or other crew served weapon. I would prefer the caliber of it to be at least a 7.62 if it is a 240 style system. If more compact and heandheld I would like to shoot for a .45 but a 9mm with a large capacity would do just fine as well. Maybe a Mak-10 or a .45 UZI. Any suggestions on a FA to get? This wasnt meant to have a defensive sound to it or be a flame of any kind. |
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No problem, I'm stuck at home with the mother of all head colds and it's got me miserable and pissed off, so if I sounded overly negative in that last post, that's probably why. While I may disagree with you about shotguns, you'll have a blast with your FA. Machineguns are probably the most fun guns I've ever handled. I've never fired anything smaller than an M16A1, but crew served guns like the M60 are a blast. You can easily hit targets out to 600 yards with one using iron sights and there is a lot that can be learned about their use. |
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