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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:57:32 PM EDT
I've all of a sudden decided I want an AK. I've been lurking here as well as other sites trying to inform myself before I buy. One question has popped up that I can't find a firm answer to. I really like the underfolder, but read a post about someone having the stock moving on them. So my question is: Will the underfolder remain sturdy or will it eventually work loose and start to move on me?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:03:06 PM EDT
If you want the most efficient and stable shooting platform, go with a fixed stock version with a stock extender if you are average/tall. The best folder, if you need compact storage, is the AK74 or Krinkov side-folder style.

With the above said, I bought an underfolder. Why ? Because it is the classic "evil" AK. My competition and SHTF rifles are AR15s, and are in almost every way superior to any AK, so I got an AK purely for the pleasure of ownership and to freak out libs. The underfolder does this better than any other AK.

As for the wobble, yes an underfolder can be a bit less stable and comfortable, but it does the job.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:33:26 PM EDT
the ar and ak are used for different things. break into someones house who has an ak and you bring ur AR and you may just eat your words, and a much larger bullet than your ar uses
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:59:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 1:02:34 AM EDT by mco119]

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
If you want the most efficient and stable shooting platform, go with a fixed stock version with a stock extender if you are average/tall. The best folder, if you need compact storage, is the AK74 or Krinkov side-folder style.

With the above said, I bought an underfolder. Why ? Because it is the classic "evil" AK. My competition and SHTF rifles are AR15s, and are in almost every way superior to any AK so I got an AK purely for the pleasure of ownership and to freak out libs. The underfolder does this better than any other AK.

As for the wobble, yes an underfolder can be a bit less stable and comfortable, but it does the job.



Wow......that is a VERY bold claim, dude. I do not have the energy right now to debate this, but I'm sure one of our esteemed colleagues will be along shortly. To each his own, of course
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:29:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mco119:

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
If you want the most efficient and stable shooting platform, go with a fixed stock version with a stock extender if you are average/tall. The best folder, if you need compact storage, is the AK74 or Krinkov side-folder style.

With the above said, I bought an underfolder. Why ? Because it is the classic "evil" AK. My competition and SHTF rifles are AR15s, and are in almost every way superior to any AK, so I got an AK purely for the pleasure of ownership and to freak out libs. The underfolder does this better than any other AK.

As for the wobble, yes an underfolder can be a bit less stable and comfortable, but it does the job.



Wow......that is a VERY bold claim, dude. I do not have the energy right now to debate this, but I'm sure one of our esteemed colleagues will be along shortly. To each his own, of course



I agree with him for a competition rifle. Not necessarily true about a SHTF rifle.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:16:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 10:35:03 PM EDT by Creeper]
The AR is hardly a SHTF rifle, the gear snobs on here would love us all to believe that the AR is a reliable robust system but reality speaks differently. True if I was in the military and had access to constant supply lines with armorers at the ready to replace small parts and such then I would have an AR. However in the supposed real world SHTF scenario you are talking about a totally different animal, perhaps months without re-supply of any parts, and limited down time to properly clean and care for your weapon. Why do you think the Afghan soldiers are fighting us still using the 1st gen AK's they used against the Russians? Why is that every third world country beaten down soldier carries an AK- because they are reliable, because the parts are robust, because an idiot with simple tools can repair them. The AR is nothing in the realm of a combat rifle, a tricked out varmit rifle maybe, a rifle that should have never saw anything more than being the AirForce survival cockpit weapon it was designed to be. One drop on the buttstock, a frew grains of sand in the action, a bad follower in a magazine, some less than perfect combination of spring tension, buffer weight, or less than perfect ammunition and the AR will show you just how much of a bitch she is, how much she is not a combat rifle or a true SHTF I don't have my extra cotter pin, firing pin, or special solvent with shiny brass cased ammo weapon.

If I only had one weapon to trust my life to, one rifle that I could count on, through mud, through dirt, through dented magazines, crappy springs, spills, without supplies, without hope for resupply, without being able to properly clean, for downright reliability no matter what I would have the Kalashnikov. Push button mag release easy ergonomics with cute little pop up sights, hip cool colored buttstocks with neat-o battery compartments, special tilt followers in perfect combination of just the right magazine with cool little mag loops for that I wish I was tactical getting out of air-conditioned SUV to pose wearing my $80 sunglasses on the front cover of the TAPCO catalog, with only the best NATO stamped with cool cross ammo, just the right balance of just the right kind of oil on the carrier but more oil on the bolt self cleaning supposed bullshit, always having to be cleaned after a few hundred shots in perfect conditions sitting at the bench at the range while still having problems posting on some board about double feeds, or failures to extract with constant entire threads going about just the right special extra power springs or extractors or magazines, all don't add up to shit when you have nothing else to count on but yourself, your witts, and your rifle to run- to stay alive.

The AK was designed for that purpose, to run no matter what, to take a drop off a two story building, to buttstroke someone across the head, runs without cleaning for 80,000 rounds until the ejector is sheared off only stopping to choke on spent shell casings crushed in the rear of the reciever, while being found in some crate laying at the bottom of a stream cracking the saftey open with a hammer slamming one home and letting it rip, while proving literally 50 years in many country's having seen constant combat such as Darfur, Samalia, Afghanistan, Cashmere Region, in the utmost abhorrid brutally hostile environments. Sorry but the AR is a toy in the grand scheme of things, cool, accurate, ergnomic designed by a committee but not by a true war hardened blown out of a tank laying in a hospital bed soldier who saw combat, real combat first hand and designed a rifle for just that purpose to be as tough as the conditions that a battlefield will put a solider through. Not to mention the 7.62x39 round was designed to kill, to drop the enemy in it's track with one big fucking heavy stupid tumbling monkey of a bullet that eats cinder blocks, bone, and kevlar for breakfast versus the velocity specific for kill expansion must have exact screaming- Shot Placement, Shot Placement yet easily glanced in light brush, always readily jammed 5.56NATO designed by some accountants turned firearms committee members to wound the enemy so as to deplete it's resources and cost them financially that's how we'll win this war. Then oh waite not 55 gr, not 62 gr, maybe 77 gr , oh hell maybe 6.8, maybe 6.5, maybe sometime we'll figure out how to design a fucking bullet that drops them in their tracks even if they are wearing a ten layers of rags because we can't design a bullet for shit while screaming again shot placement, shot placement, we can carry more ammo! Yah right.

The AK is the only rifle that has proven itself in real SHTF decade after decade long combat scenarios with individual rifles being passed down generation of forgotten third world eat's shit soldier to generation third world just stepped on some leftover landmine rebel as it has funcioned in the worse regions on the planet. While the AR at best barely gets to play in the sandbox or jungle before some armorer is calling her in to go to bed early to change out a spring, a buffer, a bent tube while it's still cutting it's teeth constantly having to be re-engineered, re-designed, over forty years of bad decisions, finally starting to make progress when they loosen the tolerances on the chambers, chrome this part, don't chrome that part, but hey it's got rails to hang easily broken batteries not included to just make it a few weeks in the field but always on the edge of replacement of several superior rifles that resemble in action more and more the AK.

Creeper

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:20:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 10:26:05 PM EDT by TheNorm]
Damn, Creeper.....good show!

...read it again...it's full of gems:

" with cute little pop up sights, hip cool colored buttstocks with neat-o battery compartments."

" just the right balance of just the right kind of oil on the carrier but more oil on the bolt self cleaning supposed bullshit.."

" one big fucking heavy stupid tumbling monkey of a bullet... "

Holy crap I'll be quoting this for months.


Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:08:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 1:10:11 AM EDT by mco119]

Originally Posted By jwise:

Originally Posted By mco119:

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
If you want the most efficient and stable shooting platform, go with a fixed stock version with a stock extender if you are average/tall. The best folder, if you need compact storage, is the AK74 or Krinkov side-folder style.

With the above said, I bought an underfolder. Why ? Because it is the classic "evil" AK. My competition and SHTF rifles are AR15s, and are in almost every way superior to any AK, so I got an AK purely for the pleasure of ownership and to freak out libs. The underfolder does this better than any other AK.

As for the wobble, yes an underfolder can be a bit less stable and comfortable, but it does the job.



Wow......that is a VERY bold claim, dude. I do not have the energy right now to debate this, but I'm sure one of our esteemed colleagues will be along shortly. To each his own, of course



I agree with him for a competition rifle. Not necessarily true about a SHTF rifle.



I should have clarified that; I agree that the AR (I do enjoy the AR platform as well) is a superior competition rifle, but I believe that the AK is, at minimum, a total equal as a SHTF rifle......the AR is not "in almost every way superior".

I've always promised myself I wouldn't take part in these AR vs AK peeing contests
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:50:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 1:52:21 AM EDT by 1IV]
Look everyone knows that any gun is better that no gun....... So please Not this shit again.

PS I own both. I would take the remington (8 shot mod) 870 over an AK or an Ar in a room to room fight.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:29:12 AM EDT
Do or do not there is no try. (yoda)

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:56:51 PM EDT
So ANYWAY, I can expect play in the underfolder stock in time. So it seems I should want to get one with the wood stock. I really like the underfolder, but I want something solid too.

I did think about sidefolders, but... well, it's not the stock, it's me.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:11:58 PM EDT
The yugo underfolder for 399 is an awesome deal. If you need a rock solid precision rifle then you need a bolt gun. If you need a dependable SHTF rifle get the AK. I also have an AR and many Aks. CB
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