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Posted: 2/21/2006 4:16:59 PM EDT
to those of you who build ak's for others . what do you charge for building a rifle with their parts an
d receiver ? looks just like factory . Although I didn't paint it for him. amd 63's are sweet!
R1150R
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:37:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 4:37:59 PM EDT by Mak]
Do you have a license to manufacture firearms? Or are you in a country that doesn't require it?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:38:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 4:41:08 PM EDT by 1IV]
150$pluss parts and expences, or roughly 15-20 per hour.

And it is nice of you to put a gun together for your brother who bought the reciever and wanted to watch how it was done. Because it would be illegal to just be building for alot of strangers with out a licence
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:44:03 PM EDT
I didn't manufacture the firearm,I assembled it with a commercial made receiver GT receiver (the receiver is the gun) aleady counts as afirearm w/out any parts on it at all. yes I complied with the parts count if your wondering. R1150R


Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:49:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 4:50:47 PM EDT by Mak]

Originally Posted By 1IV:
150$pluss parts and expences, or roughly 15-20 per hour.

And it is nice of you to put a gun together for your brother who bought the reciever and wanted to watch how it was done. Because it would be illegal to just be building for alot of strangers with out a licence




What we're trying to tell you is posted by 1IV. Doesn't matter if the receiver is commercial or not. Why do you think that all of these professional builders are licensed even though they use pre-made receivers. You still have to be licensed if you are doing it for profit. Why do you think gunsmiths are licensed if they are just fixing guns? If you help one person for free because he doesn't know how and he buys you a case of ammo out of appreciation then you probably will not have a problem. Do a bunch of guns for people and you are going to have to be careful about dropping your soap in the shower.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:54:24 PM EDT
This is an interesting topic. The question is... Is he gunsmithing or manfacturing. I personally think you are allowed to build as many AK's for profit as long as you are using a Global, Ohio reciever.

Once you start bending your own receiver and serializing, thats teh manufacturer.

Otherwise he is just gunsmithing. Does anyone care to prove me wrong?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:06:39 PM EDT
just for a guy I know who didn't know how to himself. Definitly don't want to make a career of it ! too much time involved and b.s. w/legal issues . so what your tryiong to tell me is that I shouldn't have done it for him at all. just out of curiosity would changing a stock set for a guy to American made parts with the proper count be considered maufacturing? where is the line . would you have to go to a licenced gun smith for this if you couldn't manage it yourself? sorry I'm just starting to sound like a smart ass dick! R1150R
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:14:20 PM EDT
I think as long as it is a barreled action then you can build into rifle but a reciever by itself is considered a rifle but not a complete rifle without the barrel attached.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:21:48 PM EDT
Helping someone you aren't going to get into trouble. That is why guys get together with build parties. Selling a stock set to someone and putting it on his rifle for him probably isn't going to cause any problems. Building a bunch of rifles for guys from their parts and receivers with them not anywhere on the premises of your house or shop and then charging them is going to get you in trouble.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:29:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunBid:
This is an interesting topic. The question is... Is he gunsmithing or manfacturing. I personally think you are allowed to build as many AK's for profit as long as you are using a Global, Ohio reciever.

Once you start bending your own receiver and serializing, thats teh manufacturer.

Otherwise he is just gunsmithing. Does anyone care to prove me wrong?



He is offering a service for profit, therefore it is taxable income, therefore he needs the proper licensing.



Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:51:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 5:52:35 PM EDT by Mak]

Originally Posted By GunBid:
This is an interesting topic. The question is... Is he gunsmithing or manfacturing. I personally think you are allowed to build as many AK's for profit as long as you are using a Global, Ohio reciever.

Once you start bending your own receiver and serializing, thats teh manufacturer.

Otherwise he is just gunsmithing. Does anyone care to prove me wrong?



I think this proves that you are indeed wrong as according to the ATF any work he does on a firearm for others requires a license. Once he starts charging he is conducting a business and must be licensed by federal law. Do you have any references that would dispute this?


I. GUNSMITHS

(I1) Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms? [Back]

Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer. [27 CFR 178.11]


(I2) Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent "bound book" record every firearm received for adjustment or repair? [Back]

If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the "bound book" as an "acquisition." If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an "acquisition" and a "disposition" in the permanent "bound book" record. [27 CFR 178.125( e)]


(I4) May a gunsmith make immediate repairs at locations other than his or her place of business? [Back]

Yes.




Forgot to put the link in so here it is www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a1
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:10:25 PM EDT
thanx's for the unfo It wasn't my intent to do anything illeagle. R1150R
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:37:44 PM EDT
The alphabet boys don't care if you intended to do anything illegal. They're just out to add your head to their trophy collection. Next time supervise and give advice but don't actually assemble the firearm.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:06:45 AM EDT
if you build up an already manufactured receiver into a rifle from a parts kit for profit it is gunsmithing and indeed you need an FFL
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:39:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:41:50 AM EDT
Title 27--Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHAPTER I--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

PART 178--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION



Dealer. Any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at
wholesale or retail; any person engaged in the business of repairing
firearms or of making or fitting special barrels,
stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms; or any person who is a
pawnbroker. The term shall include any person who engages in such
business or occupation on a part-time basis.





d) Gunsmith. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to
engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with
the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such a term shall
not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms or who
occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to
firearms;




Manufacturer. Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing
firearms or ammunition. The term shall include any person who engages in
such business on a part-time basis.



Where you get into trouble is doing more than one firearm and charging for it. As I said previously, putting a stock on a persons rifle isn't going to get you into trouble. Installing an RSA or G2 fire control group in a buddies rifle isn't going to get you into trouble.

Helping someone build an AK out of the goodness of your heart isn't going to get you into trouble.

Building a few AK's for some guys you meet on this or any other board and charging them a fee if you aren't licensed is going to get you in a world of shit sooner or later. Someone's kid takes one of those rifles and shoots up a school, Police go to the kids house and ask father how the kid got the rifle. Father says, "My buddy GunBid built it and sold it to me, he told me you are allowed to build as many AK's for profit as long as you are using a Global, Ohio reciever."


ATF goes and picks up GunBid who purchases plenty of soap on a rope for shower time at the nearest Federal Pen where he is bunked up with Chief Thunder.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:35:53 AM EDT
Excellent replies! I/We charge for builds becasue we need to pay for licensing fees, Taxes, Waterbill, Loan Payments, phone bill, internet fees, parts, machines, rent, etc...

If I build a gun on your already purchased/transferred receiver I am gunsmithing and need a license...

If I build you a gun from my parts on a Global/Ohio/DCI/whatever receiver with the intent of selling it to you then I am manufacturing, and thus I have to charge the 11% excise tax as well.

If I were just an individual and I and a few buddies built a few guns in my garage using mostly my tools and we all bought all of our parts and supplies etc... and we each did one operation or two on each gun then we are not manufacturers or gunsmiths we are hobbiests... the instant one of use asks for a fee for the assistance then we are in business and better get a license...

Kerry Kroger
Missouri Custom Armament
www.mcarms.com
sales@mcarms.com
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:20:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunBid:
This is an interesting topic. The question is... Is he gunsmithing or manfacturing. I personally think you are allowed to build as many AK's for profit as long as you are using a Global, Ohio reciever.

Once you start bending your own receiver and serializing, thats teh manufacturer.

Otherwise he is just gunsmithing. Does anyone care to prove me wrong?


Looks like a few people cared to prove you wrong.......Nows your chance to pull out an artice from guns and ammo that says its not illegal.......
Just remember when making the guns you are supposed to have your name and city stamped on them.....So when you sell em guys with wires sticking out of thier ears will know where to find you.


Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:28:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:

Originally Posted By GunBid:
This is an interesting topic. The question is... Is he gunsmithing or manfacturing. I personally think you are allowed to build as many AK's for profit as long as you are using a Global, Ohio reciever.

Once you start bending your own receiver and serializing, thats teh manufacturer.

Otherwise he is just gunsmithing. Does anyone care to prove me wrong?


Looks like a few people cared to prove you wrong.......Nows your chance to pull out an artice from guns and ammo that says its not illegal.......
Just remember when making the guns you are supposed to have your name and city stamped on them.....So when you sell em guys with wires sticking out of thier ears will know where to find you.






Sooner or later someone will turn you in if you don't follow the law. May be your neighbor, may be your kid/wife, might be the guy you built the rifle for if he gets busted for something and wants to get off.
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