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Posted: 2/9/2006 3:42:24 PM EDT

I have read all about making a parts kit legal and understand what is needed.

I just question if anybody has ever checked your AK to see how many US parts you have? I have a legal AK and would never ever consider doing anything illegal but from a distance mine looks just like it would if it was illegal and nobody has ever asked to inspect it.

Just wondering if anybody has ever been asked?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 3:50:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 3:58:54 PM EDT
understand that but was not my q?

Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:13:14 PM EDT
I have never been checked, and I am sure that the JBTs in my area have no idea what 922r compliance is. I had a local JBT question whether or not it was legal for me to own a machine gun when I was shooting one of my Romanians. But I will say that ALL my AKs are compliant officer.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:46:04 PM EDT
To answer your question. An officer whether state, local, or federal needs to have probable cause to check your firearm. The officer cannot come up to you while you are at the range and say "gimme dat gun ya law breaker" and grab it from you and begin to break it down to check the compliance parts. He needs some other reason to stop you from continuing what you are doing to begin an investigation. I think the courts would have a problem with that because it would constitue an arrest. You would have to be engaged in some other criminal activity which would involve the firearm or the posession of that firearm in order for him to begin checking the gun. The only other exception I can think of would be if you were hunting with your AK and you were stopped by a fish and game officer and he wanted to check your firearm. He has the right to do this when you are hunting on public land. If an officer did confront you at the range and said "Hand over that rifle so I can check for compliance parts." the appellate courts would have a field day with that arrest if he made one. Check the "Fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine" If evidence is illegally obtained it is not admissable in court.
So in a nut shell, if an officer takes your gun without your permission without any probable cause and discovers that the firearm is not 922 compliant and charges you with it the charges will be dropped. I have been in law enforcement for about 20 years. Never took anything that I did not have PC to take.
My 2 cents
Consult an attorney before you take any action. This is not legal advise.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:53:18 PM EDT
Guys you are missing the point of my question. Yes I understand all that and again would not even consider building a illegal anything.

There is more a poll type question.

Many are so worried about being legal which is a good thing but in 25+ years of shooting I have never ever even heard of anybody asking to see a gun for compliance.

i'm just wondering if it has ever happened.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:58:56 PM EDT
Never heard of it. But then again remember Ruby Ridge. I took a hostage negotation class from Fred Lancely who was the Chief FBI negotiator from that cluster F**K. By the way they kicked him off of the scene for telling them to back off. He filled us in on all the ins and outs of firearms and stuff. They only go after the big fish.
Rest easy.........I am not saying it will never happen but I personally think you have a better chance of being hit by lightning.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:59:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By phillyd2:
Guys you are missing the point of my question. Yes I understand all that and again would not even consider building a illegal anything.

There is more a poll type question.

Many are so worried about being legal which is a good thing but in 25+ years of shooting I have never ever even heard of anybody asking to see a gun for compliance.

i'm just wondering if it has ever happened.



Did you even read my reply??? I answered your question.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:59:42 PM EDT
By the way what is a "JBT"

Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:06:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:

Did you even read my reply??? I answered your question.



yes sir I did and thank you. Others seem to be thinking that I'm trying to see if I can get away with it which is Not the case.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:08:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By corny:
By the way what is a "JBT"




A JBT is a police officer, aka jack booted thug.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:10:37 PM EDT
I think it is one of the stupid laws that the democrats thought up. I am building several kits now. They may or may not be compliant. I will never tell.
Got my USA stamp in the mail yesterday.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:13:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:

Originally Posted By corny:
By the way what is a "JBT"




A JBT is a police officer, aka jack booted thug.


That is funny. I will share that one with the other thugs that I work with. I just finished my 4 years in CID investigating financial crimes. Back in uniform in "Crime Prevention" A feel good, hand shake, teaching job. Now if I can just find a way to not carry the Glock anymore. Anyway stay safe. Lots of good Police Officers out there.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:25:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By corny:
I think it is one of the stupid laws that the democrats thought up. I am building several kits now. They may or may not be compliant. I will never tell.
Got my USA stamp in the mail yesterday.



Does the law require the parts stamped "made in usa"?

When looking at AK's at gun shows I can never tell if they are compliant or not.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:28:06 PM EDT
They better have some kind of marking where they were produced. Or a manufacturer mark that is in the USA. At least that is my understanding. How else would anyone tell?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:04:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By corny:
They better have some kind of marking where they were produced. Or a manufacturer mark that is in the USA. At least that is my understanding. How else would anyone tell?



I don't believe that there is any regulation that states that US made parts have to be stamped "US". The Century fire control parts are just stamped with a "C".
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:07:11 PM EDT
Just stands to reason there should be a way to tell if they were US made or foreign made. How else would anyone tell?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:29:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 6:32:30 PM EDT by Mak]

Originally Posted By corny:
They better have some kind of marking where they were produced. Or a manufacturer mark that is in the USA. At least that is my understanding. How else would anyone tell?



There is no requirement that the part be marked US, USA or any other particular marking, so your "understanding" is incorrect. If you know otherwise, please post references and links to the exact federal law which states that the parts must be "marked" U.S./U.S.A. or any other "marking" which denotes the parts were manufactured in the United States.


Plenty of FCG's were "manufactured" in the United States without one marking which shows they were produced in the United States. That is a fact. FSE, RSA, Hesse which are not marked or have been manufactured at times without markings but were installed in firearms which are compliant. U.S. gas pistons have been manufactured by numerous companies or individuals with no markings, whatsoever. Show me a SAR-1,2,3 piston that came from Century that has U.S./U.S.A. or any other marking on it, they don't, but they are a U.S. produced part.

Muzzlebrakes....plenty out there with no markings but they are manufactured and sold in the U.S. as a domestice part.

Wood stocksets produced in the United States. Any law saying they must be marked as such? Not as far as I am aware.

There are simple ways to tell if the parts are domestically produced or not. Many of us that have been on the boards over 1 year know how to tell if the parts are domestic or foreign manufactured. Those that don't know come up with statements which often are complete B.S.

Yeah, it is nice to have parts marked U.S./U.S.A. but there is no "legal" requirement.

I know of no one that has been convicted and imprisoned in federal court for the crime of not having a firearm built with the correct compliance parts. Should you build yours in violation of the law? No. Pretty stupid thing to do. But it is also a stupid thing to allow anyone to touch your firearms at the range or anywhere else without you permission. The only way someone is going to tell is if they start taking your firearm apart and if they have the knowledge to tell domestic parts from imported.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 7:00:05 PM EDT
That makes perfect sense. I would imagine that the people who sell the parts or manufacture the firearms that you speak of can prove where the parts came from for compliance purposes. Good info and excellent post. If the Federal Government wants compliance than they should be specific about markings and such. There are many laws on the books that are almost unenforceable. I am by no means saying do not comply with the law. Interesting topic and good info.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 9:23:08 PM EDT
There is no such thing as an illegal gun as far as 922 goes so it doesn't matter how parts are marked.
922r has to be the most misunderstood firearms law. Everyone assumes that an existing gun has to have "US made" parts to be legal. It does not say that. What it does say is that it is illegal to ASSEMBLE such a weapon. It outlaws an ACT, not the gun itself. There is simply no law that states that possession of a 100% imported rifle or shotgun in "Assault weapon" configuration is illegal. THIS is why nobody has ever been prosecuted. It's hard to prosecute someone for breaking a law that doesn't exist.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 10:03:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunguyr:
If they get to checking compliance parts you are in deep shit,,,,, in other words busted for something else.

This is my opinion, not legal advice.



My opinion as well.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:15:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 1:16:56 AM EDT by arcom]
"....needs to have probable cause to check your firearm."

Wrong. He needs reasonable suspicion to inspect it. Big difference. He needs probable cause to sieze it. Furthermore, in most states, displaying a firearm provides the reasonable suspicion level for a police officer to inspect the weapon. If he does so and finds you are out of compliance, admitedly a very unlikely event, he cannot necessarily arrest you but he can still sieze the weapon. 922 is a federal law and local law enforcement agencies can only enforce a federal law as part of some sort joint task force (there are exceptions). Some states, however, have laws that either mirror or exceed the federal laws when is comes to "assault weapons." In those states, the LEO could sieze your weapon for violating local laws AND arrest you. Again, very unlikely. There's almost 3,000 officers in my department and maybe 15 of them know 922 compliance rules.

But understand this, a non-compliant firearm regardless of how it is siezed is still contraband. And contraband is NEVER returned.

Thus endeth the law lesson.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 2:34:57 AM EDT
I guess we are kind og talking apples and oranges. You are in NY and I am in FL. DIfferent laws. You better have a good reason for taking a gun from someone to check it. Looking at it is not a good cause. No matter what state you are in. And you do need PC to take it. Reasonable suspicion does not extend to seizure.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 3:55:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 3:57:23 AM EDT by Morning_Wood]
arcom is correct about reasonable suspicion, however he is in incorrect that simply displaying the firearm in an otherwise legal manner is reasonable suspicion.

Reasonable suspicion that a crime has been commited is the complete phrase. No crime has been committed by say, shooting targets at a gun range or legal transport in a motorized conveyance.



Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:59:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By corny:
Just stands to reason there should be a way to tell if they were US made or foreign made. How else would anyone tell?



Your statement shows just how ridiculous the law is. The onus is on the government to prove your rifle is not in compliance. But you have a better chance of seeing God than having an ATF guy wanting to verify the nationality of your FCG.

JoeLad
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