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Posted: 1/6/2006 6:54:54 AM EDT
I called Ron Smith about the upcoming Vortexes for both the AKM/47 and the AK-74 families. He advised me that the AKM/AK47 14X1 LH is just a few days away from being available and that he promised some will be available to civilians. How many, I don't honestly know, but I suspect no more than 50 or 100 for the time being. Anyway, Ron asked me to pass he's being just about every day about the AK74 Vortex and that he hasn't forgotten us. However, it will be a couple of months before they will available. He also mentioned the FOX News story on the Vortex and the military dragging it's feet on adopting this simple device will air sometime on January 19th.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:54:21 AM EDT
AK Vortexes??? What are these?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:56:53 AM EDT
Vortex flash hiders???
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:57:44 AM EDT
$75 for a FH?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:55:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:00:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By robpiat:
$75 for a FH?



No shit. That's a lot of jack for a flash hider.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:02:13 AM EDT
I'm sure they will be woth every penny. I'll be getting couple to put away.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:08:56 AM EDT
Are they patented
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:28:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:33:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedukeryan:

Originally Posted By robpiat:
Are they patented


+1 I asked the guy making my slant breaks how much $ it would cost to make a batch of these and his reply was a lot less than $75 each



Well I get a prototype for asking first.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:34:22 PM EDT
I have one on my 24" AR. I bet there is no flash.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:04:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedukeryan:
+1 I asked the guy making my slant breaks how much $ it would cost to make a batch of these and his reply was a lot less than $75 each



Chop Chop, get to work man ...
We want both 14x1 and 24x1.5 and have him leave a ring around the end so they don't get snagged up when we're running through the jungle chasing zombies ...
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:05:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:19:32 AM EDT
A gentleman on the Saiga12 boards makes and sells them.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:53:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 10:11:38 AM EDT by mach6]

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:

Originally Posted By robpiat:
$75 for a FH?



No shit. That's a lot of jack for a flash hider.


======
Well, that's retail for civilians, too. That's also a lot of "flash hider", as in good enough for the USA Army's M240H, M14, M14SE, the Canadian Forces' C-8 & C-6, the USN SEAL's & USAF PJ's MK14 Mod O and M14SE and the DOE's M4A1, for starters. This crowd won't settle for some bubba-fried cast piece of forged gouda cheese that might otherwise suffice for the "Hold-my-beer-while-I-shoot-my-SKS." crowd.

As to the AK Vortex itself, we are not talking about surplus wares from defunct political systems in which the true cost of production ultimately contributed heavily to the downfall for their socio-economic system. The modern AKM/AK47 Vortex is made principally for a specific and pressing military application that also calls for the ability to employ a sound suppressor.

Patented? Need one really ask?



Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:22:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mach6:

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:

Originally Posted By robpiat:
$75 for a FH?



No shit. That's a lot of jack for a flash hider.


======
Well, that's retail for civilians, too. That's also a lot of "flash hider", as in good enough for the USA Army's M240H, M14, M14SE, the Canadian Forces' C-8 & C-6, the USN SEAL's & USAF PJ's MK14 Mod O and M14SE and the DOE's M4A1, for starters. This crowd won't settle for some bubba-fried cast piece of forged gouda cheese that might otherwise suffice for the "Hold-my-beer-while-I-shoot-my-SKS." crowd.

As to the AK Vortex itself, we are not talking about surplus wares from defunct political systems in which the true cost of production ultimately contributed heavily to the downfall for their socio-economic system. The modern AKM/AK47 Vortex is made principally for a specific and pressing military application that also calls for the ability to employ a sound suppressor.

Patented? Need one really ask?






Its steel. Machined from a tube. Not rocket science.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:13:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 2:14:56 PM EDT by dalesimpson]

Originally Posted By robpiat:

Originally Posted By mach6:

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:

Originally Posted By robpiat:
$75 for a FH?



No shit. That's a lot of jack for a flash hider.


======
Well, that's retail for civilians, too. That's also a lot of "flash hider", as in good enough for the USA Army's M240H, M14, M14SE, the Canadian Forces' C-8 & C-6, the USN SEAL's & USAF PJ's MK14 Mod O and M14SE and the DOE's M4A1, for starters. This crowd won't settle for some bubba-fried cast piece of forged gouda cheese that might otherwise suffice for the "Hold-my-beer-while-I-shoot-my-SKS." crowd.

As to the AK Vortex itself, we are not talking about surplus wares from defunct political systems in which the true cost of production ultimately contributed heavily to the downfall for their socio-economic system. The modern AKM/AK47 Vortex is made principally for a specific and pressing military application that also calls for the ability to employ a sound suppressor.

Patented? Need one really ask?






Its steel. Machined from a tube. Not rocket science.



What is this"Hold my beer while I shoot my SKS" shit? I don't give a rat's ass about who uses it, or the downfall of the Soviet Union. All I said was that is a lot of cash for a friggin' flash hider, and I will stand by that statement.

Oh, congratulations on posting the most pompous, condescending load of crap I have read all day.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:38:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:

What is this"Hold my beer while I shoot my SKS" shit? I don't give a rat's ass about who uses it, or the downfall of the Soviet Union. All I said was that is a lot of cash for a friggin' flash hider, and I will stand by that statement.

Oh, congratulations on posting the most pompous, condescending load of crap I have read all day.



Man, ya'll need to slip over to the '14 side. Damn near required over there to drink the Smith Enterprise kool aid and worship at the throne of the Vortex, all while giving humble thanks that SEI still has time every now and then to build a rifle for a mere mortal civilian.

I'm gonna be watching for the FOX story, that oughta be good. I don't know what kind of a deal the gov gets for the Vortex, but unless it's like 10% of retail, I'm quite proud of the mil for "dragging its feet." Depending on the weapon, I'm not sure how important it is to upgrade the flash hider from say, 95% effective to maybe 98% at several times the cost.I rather doubt you'll find any instances where U.S. soldiers have been casualties because the stock A2/240/249/M14 flash hider fucked them over.

'Sides, we'll just be taking them Vortexes off the next time we fight anywhere but the desert, them damn open ended things are gonna catch brush everywhere, and Joe's gonna use them to open ammo crates.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:00:12 PM EDT
And by the way...I searched the patent website and I don't see anything close to it...
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:39:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:40:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By robpiat:

Originally Posted By mach6:

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:

Originally Posted By robpiat:
$75 for a FH?



No shit. That's a lot of jack for a flash hider.


======
Well, that's retail for civilians, too. That's also a lot of "flash hider", as in good enough for the USA Army's M240H, M14, M14SE, the Canadian Forces' C-8 & C-6, the USN SEAL's & USAF PJ's MK14 Mod O and M14SE and the DOE's M4A1, for starters. This crowd won't settle for some bubba-fried cast piece of forged gouda cheese that might otherwise suffice for the "Hold-my-beer-while-I-shoot-my-SKS." crowd.

As to the AK Vortex itself, we are not talking about surplus wares from defunct political systems in which the true cost of production ultimately contributed heavily to the downfall for their socio-economic system. The modern AKM/AK47 Vortex is made principally for a specific and pressing military application that also calls for the ability to employ a sound suppressor.

Patented? Need one really ask?






Its steel. Machined from a tube. Not rocket science.


Read the post again, the military uses it so its worth 40% more.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:50:42 PM EDT
Im considering just buying a 74 style FH. Any one use one of the "vortexs on a AK?" thanks.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:42:32 PM EDT
$50 bucks is alot for a flash sup, $75 is freaking insane. Hell, for $75, I could buy a case of beer and about half a case of ammo to shoot with my SKS, not to mention a pack of Marlboros.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:17:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 7:32:12 PM EDT by bones21]
It is very much patented....

www.biggerhammer.net/patents/us05596161__.pdf

That patent seems to be an earlier design similar to the smith vortex , so you can bet your ass that the new ones are patented using similar "claims" and design, etc...

They are damn good flash hiders ! If you guys don't use night vision, then don't worry about it. Just stick with a birdcage, phantom, krink or bulgy flash hider ( the latter of which are not exactly "cheap" or highly available )

I've got a bulgy flash hider and never used it with my NV and have no real need to right now. I also have a Vortex on my AR, while using NV you cannot hardly see any flash... just a little blip of light. They are kick ass and worth the price... as long as you are not putting one on every gun you own.

As far as an AK Vortex.... why would you really even want one

my2

ETA: Had to edit what I posted.... biggerhammer lists it as the Smith Vortex, but I read and it said DPMS It looks just like the Smith to me though, despite some external differences..... so I adjusted my first sentence accordingly
*The only flash hider I could find on DPMS's website was a 3 prong, kinda makes me wonder about the above patent
DMPS 3 Prong Flash Hider "9.95"
Might not hurt to call up DPMS and ask them to make up a batch of 14x1 LH 3 prong hiders for 10 bucks a pop. I'm sure they would make great hiders
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:19:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 8:28:42 PM EDT by BiggerStick47]
I would pay $75 for the Vortex FH, as long as it came with $65 worth of ammo.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:46:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 9:50:14 PM EDT by JosephR]
Lots of AR guys use them. At $50 for an AR and a 2.0"+ length, they are perfect. They reduce muzzle flash on an AR15 to almost ZERO, yes, ZERO flash, even at night. When permanently attached, they'll bring the much-beloved 14.5" barrel up to the legal limit.

TEST THREAD





Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:43:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedukeryan:

Originally Posted By robpiat:

Originally Posted By thedukeryan:

Originally Posted By robpiat:
Are they patented


+1 I asked the guy making my slant breaks how much $ it would cost to make a batch of these and his reply was a lot less than $75 each



Well I get a prototype for asking first.


The reason I asked was because the shop making the breaks for me claims to be doing some of the basic cuts for the Vortex and then Smith finishes them off in their own shop. I dont have a clue if this is true or not. Anyways I just asked out of curiousity I have no plans of trying to copy any. I dont need Smiths lawyers coming after me.



You ought to have a chat with your friend at the machine shop. All Smith Vortexes and Muzzle Brakes are made in house -- completely. He's either feeding you a line or......
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 11:02:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 12:01:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mach6:

You ought to have a chat with your friend at the machine shop. All Smith Vortexes and Muzzle Brakes are made in house -- completely. He's either feeding you a line or......



That's pretty much what I heard when I coordinated with Smith to build a .458 caliber Vortex. He actually said his dad does the majority of the work building the Vortexes.

And anyone who wants to run out and build their own - more power to you... However, I would go look at some of the garage built Vortexes turned out - they pretty much start to mushroon out after some firing.

Spooky
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 2:32:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 2:54:51 PM EDT by mach6]

Originally Posted By Spooky130:

Originally Posted By mach6:

You ought to have a chat with your friend at the machine shop. All Smith Vortexes and Muzzle Brakes are made in house -- completely. He's either feeding you a line or......



That's pretty much what I heard when I coordinated with Smith to build a .458 caliber Vortex. He actually said his dad does the majority of the work building the Vortexes.

And anyone who wants to run out and build their own - more power to you... However, I would go look at some of the garage built Vortexes turned out - they pretty much start to mushroon out after some firing.

Spooky



Spooky - You're quite correct. Ron's dad (Richard) does the initial machining. Final machining, tumbling, heat treatments, parkerizing and QA/QC is all handled by Ron. So you were/are the USAF guy that got the .458 V deal going, eh? Glad I got one while I could. M4gery, M14SE clone, StG-58 FAL, 5.56mm SAM-5 (modded MK46 Vortex) and .458 SOCOM. All of these back home. Grrrr. Getting an ARSR-700 Vortex for my SSG P II over here in GE by a really talented Steyr smith near Muenchen. The unit now has them on their M240Bs and M249s/Paras. Happy campers...especially with NV. Trying to get the M2HB Vortex and bbl threading funded. A tad bit stickier to get past the G-8, AMC rep, etc. Mission funds can work wonders, though
As for folks making their own Vortexes -- wouldn't advise that in the least. Last I heard (three months ago TDY in AZ) six parties have or were about to be named as defendants in either or both copyright and/or patent violations. Their lawyers definitely have serious canines. Ouch!
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 3:30:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mach6:

Originally Posted By Spooky130:

Originally Posted By mach6:

You ought to have a chat with your friend at the machine shop. All Smith Vortexes and Muzzle Brakes are made in house -- completely. He's either feeding you a line or......



That's pretty much what I heard when I coordinated with Smith to build a .458 caliber Vortex. He actually said his dad does the majority of the work building the Vortexes.

And anyone who wants to run out and build their own - more power to you... However, I would go look at some of the garage built Vortexes turned out - they pretty much start to mushroon out after some firing.

Spooky



Spooky - You're quite correct. Ron's dad (Richard) does the initial machining. Final machining, tumbling, heat treatments, parkerizing and QA/QC is all handled by Ron. So you were/are the USAF guy that got the .458 V deal going, eh? Glad I got one while I could. M4gery, M14SE clone, StG-58 FAL, 5.56mm SAM-5 (modded MK46 Vortex) and .458 SOCOM. All of these back home. Grrrr. Getting an ARSR-700 Vortex for my SSG P II over here in GE by a really talented Steyr smith near Muenchen. The unit now has them on their M240Bs and M249s/Paras. Happy campers...especially with NV. Trying to get the M2HB Vortex and bbl threading funded. A tad bit stickier to get past the G-8, AMC rep, etc. Mission funds can work wonders, though
As for folks making their own Vortexes -- wouldn't advise that in the least. Last I heard (three months ago TDY in AZ) six parties have or were about to be named as defendants in either or both copyright and/or patent violations. Their lawyers definitely have serious canines. Ouch!



mach6,

I handled the .458 buy. I think they turned out very well especially with the barrel we used. I don't know how many Ron has left but I think his supply is going to shrink when the RRA .458s start hitting the streets. I doubt he'll build more after this batch is sold out... Here's a cool picture of the .458s when I got them...



I would really like to see the .50BMG version - that has to be a 3 pound chunk of steel on the end of the barrel!

Spooky
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 3:32:44 PM EDT
We should start a group buy. If not to buy the Vortex, maybe something else. Maybe have something made custom. There are alot of great machinists on the site.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 3:43:56 PM EDT
$75????

I'll just stick with my '74 type break and buy a Romy drum.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:16:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 5:30:52 PM EDT by mach6]

Originally Posted By h8mtv:
We should start a group buy. If not to buy the Vortex, maybe something else. Maybe have something made custom. There are alot of great machinists on the site.



Vortex AK Group buy? Hmmmm...not a bad idea at all. Kinda like what Spooky130 did with the .458 SOCOM units. Sorry, but I can't handle it from Germany. RRA .458 SOCOM??? So when is that coming out?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:30:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 5:38:58 PM EDT by h8mtv]
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:15:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 4:19:19 PM EDT by mach6]
FOX13 (WTVT, Tampa) will air a story on the Vortex, tonight 19 January at 1100 hours (EST). It will show an M16 and an AK, both with and without a Vortex. Should cause interesting rumblings, considering Tampa is home to USSOCOM and USCENTCOM. Oh, and Ron just told me yesterday that 100 AK47/AKM Vortexes are now being set aside for civilian sales. More later....maybe. AK74/100 still down the road.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:35:54 PM EDT
Why in the world do I want to send any money to that asshole?

"NO! Civilians are not worthy of the honor of this flash hider! Only military and police. NOW GET BACK YOU SCUM! BACK!"
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