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Posted: 12/27/2005 1:37:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 4:58:18 PM EDT
That sucks ass. Couldn't that thing at least be given to a class three dealer to make a post sample out of?
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:27:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 6:16:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 7:21:20 PM EDT
I used to sell guns at gunshows in the mid 90's. We had about 20 or 30 of these rifles. When I first saw them, I told my business partner that I thought something wasn't right about these. I was not comfortable about the rivet in the third hole. He called the distributor, and we were reassured that all the rifles passed ATF inspection and everything was legit. OK, we asked.....were reassured.....

These were nice rifles especially in comparison to the regular stuff we were selling. We sold them all.

About 3 months later after my partner (the FFL) and I had parted, he told me that he got a letter from the ATF.......I think he had to send a registered letter to everyone who purchased one of those rifles asking for it back. I don't think he got even one taker.

When you think about it, WTF?????? The PASSED inspection!!! What the fuck are you supposed to do? Refuse to take them because you think they are bogus and everybody including the ATF says OK???

Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:26:14 AM EDT
I could'nt do it,it would be like burning the flag.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 1:43:47 AM EDT
If you happen across one of these, IM or email me. I will make sure that it goes away...never to return...no questions asked.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:30:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 4:31:23 AM EDT by krinkfreak]
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:39:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:50:59 AM EDT
I would have somebody weld it up and reblue.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:01:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 5:01:37 AM EDT by krinkfreak]
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:04:36 AM EDT
If its a machinegun, and they inspected it, and it was transfered to me, there is going to be a court case for an amnesty
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:12:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:58:15 AM EDT
Yeah, the gov't isn't going to OK a shitload of rifles into the country and then tell me they're going to take them away after we all have already paid for them and destroy them without buying it from me without a fight.

Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:00:15 AM EDT
A budy of mine told me that back in the 80's, a bunch of sear cut FAL's came into the country and were sold. The ATF tried to confiscate them but someone took them to court and won. He said the judge scolded the ATF that they allowed it into the country, thus they cannot take them back.

I have no idea if this is true.

Brick
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:01:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krinkfreak:

Originally Posted By robpiat:
If its a machinegun, and they inspected it, and it was transfered to me, there is going to be a court case for an amnesty



That's how we have to fight the illegality of the McClure-Volkmer Act of 1986 (Machinegun Ban).




We have to fight based on the 2nd being a guaranteed individual right. BATFE can't pick and choose which gun we should and shouldn't be allowed to own due to some ruling because in all reality, the BATFE shouldn't have the power to make any rules. Like I said in another post, 70,000 members on this board alone contributing $20.00 each could pay for one hell of a lawyer to argue our case.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 9:07:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krinkfreak:

"Once a machinegun, always a machinegun" per BATFE.



Care to post the BATFE letter that states this?
I do believe that it exists, but I cannot remember seeing it posted before.


My thought on these rifles, although definitely a gray area, would be to knock the pin out and over-size-drill that hole until it can't come close to accepting a standard pin...maybe even cut a square hole out, then submit it to the BATFE for testing and/or confiscation. While they may still want to keep it, if they cannot make it fire more than one shot per function on the trigger, they may be legally obligated into returning the rifle as non-contraban to you.

Legally, you're in the clear, as the definition of machinegun involves firing more than one shot per function of the trigger, which the rifle was never able to do in its original configuration. The only thing defining these rifles as machineguns is BATFE opinion, which has been struck down in similar court cases with the BATFE before (Thompson Contender comes to mind), so this would be no different. The fact that these were tested by the BATFE and initially determined as not being machineguns is an even more convincing fact. However, it wouldn't be worth going to court over unless you had deep pockets and plenty of spare time available.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 11:50:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:54:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:59:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 1:48:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Templar:

Originally Posted By Brick:
A budy of mine told me that back in the 80's, a bunch of sear cut FAL's came into the country and were sold. The ATF tried to confiscate them but someone took them to court and won. He said the judge scolded the ATF that they allowed it into the country, thus they cannot take them back.

I have no idea if this is true.

Brick



It's true, but there are two batches, the original FN models imported in the late 50's early 60's are called "G" series, and there's a list of them. They have the full auto ejector block, but not the full auto guts.

The second batch are the Australian Lithgow L1A1's imported by Poyer in the 80's. Again, full auto ejector blocks but no full auto guts, just like a military L1A1.



I bought a sear cut g series FAL off ebay about 8 years ago when I was in college and sold it for about 3k...Probably worth a ton more than that now
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 3:22:52 PM EDT
Guys we all agree the laws suck. Remember ATF has included a 'readily convertable' standard as well. Now is removing a rivet without screwing up the hole easier or harder than simply drilling a new hole in your sar1? I think the SAR1 drill job would certainly be as easy. But ATF doenst care what I think.

More importantly, sometimes when someone asks them the question, it actually serves to point out something they've missed - eg, you can have ak parts kits and AK's in your house, but your screwed if you have a AR-15 and an auto sear. Make sense? Not to me but rather than ask and get told "NO!" Im gunna shut up.

Also remember that even if youre right, fighting the govt is going to destroy most folks - they know it and their not afraid to mess with you - their personal asses are not on the line like yours. So dont kick a hornets nest unless youre very well off. If you still persist, I'll gladly donate $100+ to your legal fund.

Incidentially, Ive seen 2 of the maddi 3 holers in the last year at the Tulsa GS, both for aroung $500.

For those in the market keep your eyes open, there's lots of interesting stuff on tables at the big shows.....

Gunslingerdoc has common sense...You have to realize that there's more to fighting this battle than just being "right"...you have to have the time, the bank and the inclination to do battle with the US gov't.
I used to do prison ministry (volunteer) work, so I have actually seen the inside of a prison. Boys, there is not a freakin' gun on the face of this earth that is worth going to prison for!!!
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 3:49:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunslingerdoc:
Guys we all agree the laws suck. Remember ATF has included a 'readily convertable' standard as well. Now is removing a rivet without screwing up the hole easier or harder than simply drilling a new hole in your sar1? I think the SAR1 drill job would certainly be as easy. But ATF doenst care what I think.

More importantly, sometimes when someone asks them the question, it actually serves to point out something they've missed - eg, you can have ak parts kits and AK's in your house, but your screwed if you have a AR-15 and an auto sear. Make sense? Not to me but rather than ask and get told "NO!" Im gunna shut up.

Also remember that even if youre right, fighting the govt is going to destroy most folks - they know it and their not afraid to mess with you - their personal asses are not on the line like yours. So dont kick a hornets nest unless youre very well off. If you still persist, I'll gladly donate $100+ to your legal fund.

Incidentially, Ive seen 2 of the maddi 3 holers in the last year at the Tulsa GS, both for aroung $500.

For those in the market keep your eyes open, there's lots of interesting stuff on tables at the big shows.....

This is new to me,were there also some Maadi's imported with the third hole?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:06:32 PM EDT
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