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Posted: 11/17/2005 11:08:32 PM EDT
Got my first 10rd magazine prototype done.
Mass production to come soon.



Kevin
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 11:24:36 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 11:51:48 PM EDT
Nice!
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 11:56:02 PM EDT
OMG.........how do they feed???
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 11:57:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ak4784:
OMG.........how do they feed???



If it's the prototype, there's no "they" yet!
Link Posted: 11/17/2005 11:59:14 PM EDT
VERY, VERY COOL +1
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 1:31:18 AM EDT
wow nicely done..

now if only someone would make a 40rd beta style mag for it

Jess
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 1:44:36 AM EDT
Great!

What would be REALLY cool would be some kind of latch that would keep the first round down away from the bolt, so that you could keep a magazine in the gun without deforming the top round.

Any idea on pricing?
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 1:47:49 AM EDT
Cool deal..

I know its not required, but I would check with the ATF and verify that its ok to sell.... It would suck to bring out this 10rd mag, and then have the Saiga banned from import... Or worse.. Yeah, understand that its perfectlly legal now, but at the same time there is some responsibilty to make sure it doesnt change the legality. You know how the ATF has a habit of changing the laws as they go along..

After all, there has to be a reason why EAA (and others) were not importing the factory 8 rd mags by the container load.. I am sure we have all heard the rumor that EAA was told the Saiga 12 would be declared a DD if they imported the 8rders.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 1:57:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DDiggler:
Great!

What would be REALLY cool would be some kind of latch that would keep the first round down away from the bolt, so that you could keep a magazine in the gun without deforming the top round.

Any idea on pricing?



I use the bolt hold open for that.

$40-50

Kevin
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 8:56:11 AM EDT
There is no law, regulation, or ruling that says if a hi-cap mag is available for a shotgun that the shotgun will then become a DD. For example, there are hi-cap mags available for the SPAS-15, but it has never been declared a DD.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 9:02:17 AM EDT
Well there goes my last excuse for not getting a saiga 12 yet. Time to start looking into them and conversions(SBS) for one....


My wallet hates you!

Link Posted: 11/18/2005 11:10:09 AM EDT
I Like I Like!!!

I will be ordering some for sure.

p.s. I like the see-thru.

MadDog(760)

Link Posted: 11/18/2005 11:14:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2005 11:26:01 AM EDT by Stottman]

Originally Posted By Ekie:
There is no law, regulation, or ruling that says if a hi-cap mag is available for a shotgun that the shotgun will then become a DD. For example, there are hi-cap mags available for the SPAS-15, but it has never been declared a DD.



Of course, but then the ATF does not think rationally. There is not set rules or regulations that cover Shotguns under the DD catagory.. The ATF just waves a wand, and rules them one. The USAS 12 was declared a DD, and it is no different in function from a Saiga, and SPAS-15 (though the SPAS-15 is also pump)....

Also, only about 100 SPAS-15s were imported.. Compare that to Saiga numbers....
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 11:19:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:
The Striker 12 was declared a DD, and it is no different in function from a Saiga, and SPAS-15



I get your point, but the Striker 12 is a revolving-cylinder shotgun, very similar to the Street Sweeper. Functionally, it and the Saiga are VERY different.



Link Posted: 11/18/2005 11:20:10 AM EDT
Very nice, are you going to "run'" them in black?
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 11:24:56 AM EDT
Is that a SLS or SLA prototype? If so what material did you use?
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 11:26:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shooter521:

Originally Posted By Stottman:
The Striker 12 was declared a DD, and it is no different in function from a Saiga, and SPAS-15



I get your point, but the Striker 12 is a revolving-cylinder shotgun, very similar to the Street Sweeper. Functionally, it and the Saiga are VERY different.






Sorry, meant the USAS-12... Edited original post.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 11:41:13 AM EDT
Not to hastle you,
What are the dimensions of this mag?
will it fit in AR/AK mag pouches?
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 12:01:33 PM EDT
Those are cool!
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 12:14:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Ekie:
There is no law, regulation, or ruling that says if a hi-cap mag is available for a shotgun that the shotgun will then become a DD. For example, there are hi-cap mags available for the SPAS-15, but it has never been declared a DD.



Of course, but then the ATF does not think rationally. There is not set rules or regulations that cover Shotguns under the DD catagory.. The ATF just waves a wand, and rules them one. The USAS 12 was declared a DD, and it is no different in function from a Saiga, and SPAS-15 (though the SPAS-15 is also pump)....

Also, only about 100 SPAS-15s were imported.. Compare that to Saiga numbers....



Correct, would say we are both right.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 2:02:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blfuller:
Is that a SLS or SLA prototype? If so what material did you use?



It's SLA- I forgot what they called the material, they just said it was the strongest they could do.

Kevin
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 2:04:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
Not to hastle you,
What are the dimensions of this mag?
will it fit in AR/AK mag pouches?



They will be done in black of course, and a smoke opaque, yellow, orange.

These a pretty darn big, I don't see them fitting in AR mag pouches. I'll be getting a local shop to make some custom cordura ones.

Kevin
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 2:31:25 PM EDT
Oh. My. God.


Saiga 12, just jumped to the top of my list.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 2:37:36 PM EDT
Nice!!!!!
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 3:21:36 PM EDT
I was just thinking that about the black and "smoke" colors. BUT.......a smoke trancelucent would be cool too. So you could see through it but it would still be dark and not bright white. My 2¢ anyway....
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 3:38:21 PM EDT
Nice.

Maybe more people will sell thier Saiga Izhmash mags to make money then.....
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 5:28:16 PM EDT
Nice........wishes do come true. Time to get my Saiga converted.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 5:41:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 5:41:40 PM EDT
Or maybe the competition will break them, and we start getting better stuff imported.

These would count as 3 us parts correct? Or is there no parts count on shotguns
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 7:12:50 PM EDT
AFAIK the parts count is the same on shotguns as it is on rifles. I'm 99.99% sure you have the same issue.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 7:31:55 PM EDT
I need a Saiga.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 7:43:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomovich:
AFAIK the parts count is the same on shotguns as it is on rifles. I'm 99.99% sure you have the same issue.





Cool, these would count as 3 US parts; Mag body, follower, and floorplate. So then, being as i'd convert it to pistol grip setup, once the FCG is in place thats 6 US parts. Hell Yeah!


Folding stock 12ga shotgun with a 10 round mag, oh shit yeah.


I remember awhile ago, some NFA guy built a saiga 12 like an AMD-65. Wire stock, short barrel, and AMD handguards in FA. I remember the video, it was amazing! He had the 8rd mag, man they were shooting a mid 90's mini van with it. Full auto 12ga slugs ripping through it. When you see gunshots in movies how they just tear along the whole side punching big holes and paint chips flying, thats what it looked like. Cycle rate was pretty damn fast, damn im jealous now.

If anyone remembers this vid. please post it, i need to see it again
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 8:09:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Z1500:

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
Not to hastle you,
What are the dimensions of this mag?
will it fit in AR/AK mag pouches?



They will be done in black of course, and a smoke opaque, yellow, orange.



How about plum.......
Orange? As in red-orange like the bakelite mags or more like the Thermold blank mags?
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 8:15:23 PM EDT
TAG
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 8:27:24 PM EDT
To do list:

Convert my Saiga 12 to PG configuration.
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 9:11:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RiffRandall:

Originally Posted By Z1500:

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
Not to hastle you,
What are the dimensions of this mag?
will it fit in AR/AK mag pouches?



They will be done in black of course, and a smoke opaque, yellow, orange.



How about plum.......
Orange? As in red-orange like the bakelite mags or more like the Thermold blank mags?



I was thinking I'd do like a training mag type bright orange, but now that you mention that bakelite color I'm thinking:)

Kevin
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 9:16:33 PM EDT
I'm interested, with the same reservations mentioned about Saiga-12's being declared a DD...

Question - why are they patterned off of the Saiga-20 mag design, instead of the Saiga-12 design?
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 9:29:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kythri:
Question - why are they patterned off of the Saiga-20 mag design, instead of the Saiga-12 design?



How's that?
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 9:36:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Z1500:

Originally Posted By kythri:
Question - why are they patterned off of the Saiga-20 mag design, instead of the Saiga-12 design?



How's that?




Saiga 20 10rd magazine


Saiga 12 8rd magazine


Saiga 20 on left, Saiga 12 on right

I guess after a closer look, they're not patterned on the Saiga 20 mag - I was just noticing the similar "joints" in the two mags, as opposed to the slabside Saiga 12 mag.

So, I'll rephrase my question - how come there's the "joints" in the magazine, as opposed to a slabside design?
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 9:46:03 PM EDT
Wonderful work!! Wonderful!!

Now: Time to spend some thought on a double-column mag--
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 9:57:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2005 9:58:10 PM EDT by Z1500]
Oh, I see what you mean. It's pretty much all just for looks. The mags are strong enough that they don't need the strength that the ribs add. I was actually thinking more Thermold look when I came up with horizontal rib plan. Then just made them look very Saiga with the dual lines that are pattened off the top 3 ribs on the S-12 mags.

Double column mags don't work well with rimmed cases. I was really thinking about it for a while to shorten it up, but it's an AK and reliability must come first.

Kevin
Link Posted: 11/18/2005 10:04:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Z1500:

...Double column mags don't work well with rimmed cases. I was really thinking about it for a while to shorten it up, but it's an AK and reliability must come first.

Kevin




--Actually, they will, but the geometry is a bit tricky. But I was just being obstreperous. I think you've done some fantastic work here.

Guess I better go buy one of these things . . .
Link Posted: 11/19/2005 5:07:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2005 5:15:28 PM EDT
How will these compare to the real thing, strength-wise? Metal inserts and all that? I dont know anything about them, so I cant tell from the pics.

I wouldnt mind a saiga 12 if good mags were cheaper.
Link Posted: 11/19/2005 5:37:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Z1500:

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
Not to hastle you,
What are the dimensions of this mag?
will it fit in AR/AK mag pouches?



They will be done in black of course, and a smoke opaque, yellow, orange.

These a pretty darn big, I don't see them fitting in AR mag pouches. I'll be getting a local shop to make some custom cordura ones.

Kevin



I'd be willing to bet that they would fit in those pouched that look similar to the AR mag pouch, but are marketed for AK and G3 mags.
Link Posted: 11/19/2005 5:45:49 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 11/19/2005 5:48:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2005 5:49:27 PM EDT by Shooter521]

Originally Posted By cjk1:
I'd be willing to bet that they would fit in those pouched that look similar to the AR mag pouch, but are marketed for AK and G3 mags.



Actually, they'll fit in some AR mag pouches, too, but an adjustable lid (or no lid) is a must.



Link Posted: 11/19/2005 5:55:26 PM EDT
A quad Saiga 12 mag!!!!!!


DO IT!!
Link Posted: 11/19/2005 8:04:57 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 11/20/2005 11:49:59 AM EDT
Thumbs up to all of you guys developing these domestic Saiga products, screw those obscene prices from overseas.

You can count on my purchases, cause I just bought a used S12 on the EE, I am not waiting for the new shipments, now promised sometime in January or February.

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