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1/27/2005 6:04:13 AM EDT
Is it legal to have the evil third pin in the receiver, say if it was
welded in place, kinda like the H&K guys are doing with their front pins
in their trigger groups.  Just a thought.  Would like the FA look, but
I want to stay within the law.   Thanks for any replies.
1/27/2005 6:09:58 AM EDT
[#1]
If the hole is there, it's a machine gun, period.
1/27/2005 6:11:41 AM EDT
[#2]
I would say the BATF would say NO.   It might be considered a drop in or lighting link?   If you have the third hole in the receiver, you will go to jail.   Like the looks?   You can only see it with the dust cover off.



Write a letter to the Batf for a technical clarification.
1/27/2005 6:15:12 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
I would say the BATF would say NO.   It might be considered a drop in or lighting link?   If you have the third hole in the receiver, you will go to jail.   Like the looks?   You can only see it with the dust cover off.



Write a letter to the Batf for a technical clarification.



+1
1/27/2005 6:26:19 AM EDT
[#4]
What do you mean you can only see it with the dust cover off?  Yeah, you guys
don't have to scare me with all the go to jail stuff....  remember, I said that I
wanted to stay within the law.  I just thought that if the front pin (evil third pin)
was welded into the receiver without the associated FA parts on the pin, that it
might be legal.  The H&K guys are modifying their trigger packs to APPEAR to have
the front push pin, and it is legal.  I will probably write a letter to the BATF for
clarification.  Thanks.
1/27/2005 6:46:24 AM EDT
[#5]
on the HK that is a fake push pin its just the end pieces nothing else and it comes off with the trigger pack
1/27/2005 6:52:09 AM EDT
[#6]
Maybe silversoldering both sides of the pin onto the outside of the receiver with no hole drilled would do the same thing.
1/27/2005 7:04:58 AM EDT
[#7]
BTAF, as I have been told, has a constructive intent ruling.  And pre-drilling a hole is constructive intent to manufacture a post-86 MG.

TRG
1/27/2005 7:14:33 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
What do you mean you can only see it with the dust cover off?  Yeah, you guys
don't have to scare me with all the go to jail stuff....  remember, I said that I
wanted to stay within the law.  I just thought that if the front pin (evil third pin)
was welded into the receiver without the associated FA parts on the pin, that it
might be legal.  The H&K guys are modifying their trigger packs to APPEAR to have
the front push pin, and it is legal.  I will probably write a letter to the BATF for
clarification.  Thanks.



You gotta be dumber than a box of hammers.  
1/27/2005 7:21:52 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
What do you mean you can only see it with the dust cover off?  Yeah, you guys
don't have to scare me with all the go to jail stuff....  remember, I said that I
wanted to stay within the law.  I just thought that if the front pin (evil third pin)
was welded into the receiver without the associated FA parts on the pin, that it
might be legal.  The H&K guys are modifying their trigger packs to APPEAR to have
the front push pin, and it is legal.  I will probably write a letter to the BATF for
clarification.  Thanks.




I thought you meant welding on the inside only.   If you drill a third hole in the receiver, you have manufactured a machine gun. Even if youweld in the axis pin, you still would have an illegal FA gun.  
1/27/2005 7:29:12 AM EDT
[#10]
OK, thanks for all of the input.  I did think about the fact that once a hole
was drilled, even if the pin was welded in, it would be considered a no no.  
I just wanted to confirm the legality of it.  I wouldn't even attempt to
break the law, I just wanted to know.  Thanks for your vote of confidence
about my intelligence 762minigun2.  Remember folks, there is no such thing as
a dumb question,  just dumb people!!! hock.gif
1/27/2005 8:03:04 AM EDT
[#11]
The thing about a "clipped & pinned" HK trigger pack is that there is no actual pin that goes through anything, it's just the two ends of a pin that are glued to the pack ears and then a regular semi "shelf" is installed.
1/27/2005 10:52:36 AM EDT
[#12]
AK's were imported from China that had the third hole welded shut, the ruling is "Once a machine gun, always a machine gun", thats why you cant demill a military M14 receiver and make it a semi only.

1/27/2005 11:38:47 AM EDT
[#13]
Talk to Mike at Rapid Fire.

He got a ruling from ATF concerning the fake third pin.  He may be able to shed a little light on the subject.
1/27/2005 11:46:24 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What do you mean you can only see it with the dust cover off?  Yeah, you guys
don't have to scare me with all the go to jail stuff....  remember, I said that I
wanted to stay within the law.  I just thought that if the front pin (evil third pin)
was welded into the receiver without the associated FA parts on the pin, that it
might be legal.  The H&K guys are modifying their trigger packs to APPEAR to have
the front push pin, and it is legal.  I will probably write a letter to the BATF for
clarification.  Thanks.



You gotta be dumber than a box of hammers.  



Hmm.. FNG telling FNG he's dumb. Nobody has any etiquette anymore, I tell ya...

and,

BTW, it's "box of ROCKS"

matchlite: [whisper] don't drill it [/whisper]
1/27/2005 12:36:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Thanks for all of the input gang.  It looks like its a no no or a
VERY grey area......so, just not worth the risk as far as I am
concerned.  I have every intent of following the law.  Thanks
again for the info.  I find this as a whole a very informative
board, and I appreciate everyone's contribution.  
1/27/2005 12:56:12 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
AK's were imported from China that had the third hole welded shut, the ruling is "Once a machine gun, always a machine gun", thats why you cant demill a military M14 receiver and make it a semi only.





B Wood (the guy from the Valmet-Weapons board) has a pre-GCA Valmet 62 that had the autosear holes welded up.

Not too many made it in like that.
1/27/2005 1:06:36 PM EDT
[#17]
A local shop has one of the MAK-90's that made it in with the third hole. It has been sitting on his shelf for over a year now. At $450, it the cheapest MG you'll ever find.
1/27/2005 3:14:41 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
What do you mean you can only see it with the dust cover off?  Yeah, you guys
don't have to scare me with all the go to jail stuff....  remember, I said that I
wanted to stay within the law.  I just thought that if the front pin (evil third pin)
was welded into the receiver without the associated FA parts on the pin, that it
might be legal.  The H&K guys are modifying their trigger packs to APPEAR to have
the front push pin, and it is legal.  I will probably write a letter to the BATF for
clarification.  Thanks.



You gotta be dumber than a box of hammers.  



Hmm.. FNG telling FNG he's dumb. Nobody has any etiquette anymore, I tell ya...

and,

BTW, it's "box of ROCKS"

matchlite: [whisper] don't drill it [/whisper]



Just because you see low post count dos'nt mean FNG all the time. Maybe I had to re-register lost the  passcode and changed ISP's or I just hav'nt posted tagged or IBTL a thousand times to get post count up like somepeople.

BTW ever seen Oh Brother Where Art Thow??
 its hammers.
1/27/2005 3:23:09 PM EDT
[#19]
some mak90's made it across the sales counter with a RIVET installed in the autosear hole. i have seen them...very scary to own one, i'm certain.

the third hole is a no-no.

a fake, welded on pivot pin head and stem 'may' be legal, but i sure as hell wouldn't want to be explaining myself to an agent that was not knowledgable in firearms that it really wasn't a machinegun.

just like realistic toy guns get the kids shot at by cops, i think you can go too far in a drive for realism and authenticity.

i keep telling the kalashnisnobs that their ak's don't run full auto and are nothing more than clever fakes. mine may lack gen-you-wine roosian wood, but they run fast. that makes them authentic enough for me! heheh!
1/27/2005 3:24:33 PM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
What do you mean you can only see it with the dust cover off?  Yeah, you guys
don't have to scare me with all the go to jail stuff....  remember, I said that I
wanted to stay within the law.  I just thought that if the front pin (evil third pin)
was welded into the receiver without the associated FA parts on the pin, that it
might be legal.  The H&K guys are modifying their trigger packs to APPEAR to have
the front push pin, and it is legal.  I will probably write a letter to the BATF for
clarification.  Thanks.



You gotta be dumber than a box of hammers.  



Hmm.. FNG telling FNG he's dumb. Nobody has any etiquette anymore, I tell ya...

and,

BTW, it's "box of ROCKS"

matchlite: [whisper] don't drill it [/whisper]



Just because you see low post count dos'nt mean FNG all the time. Maybe I had to re-register lost the  passcode and changed ISP's or I just hav'nt posted tagged or IBTL a thousand times to get post count up like somepeople.

BTW ever seen Oh Brother Where Art Thow??
 its hammers.



'O Brother where art thou

Fixed it for ya..  just so I could whore my 101'st post....
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