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Posted: 6/14/2004 10:31:50 AM EDT
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Hello all, I have an AK that has developed an ejection problem and would like some insight to what I should do. I bought the rifle new (Romanian WASR10) and after a short while it now jams once per magazine. Here's the history, First 80 odd rounds went off without a hitch, then I bought a halfcase of Wolf Hollowpoints and during that 500 rounds I had one last round stovepipe and one stovepipe mid-mag. The first failure I thought was just ammo related, but towards the end of the case I had the second stove pipe but mid-mag. So, I cleaned the rifle and made sure I took the bolt out and cleaned the extractor, which was full of crud and cosmo BTW, then I bought a couple hundred rounds of Wolf FMJ and took to the range again, this time out every mag I had one failure to eject, all were mid way thru the mags( I fired 5 mags loaded with 20 rounds each), it was like a bad joke or something. I immediately thought I did something wrong when I stripped the bolt but when I took it apart everything was as it should be. ... meanwhile I have ordered a new extractor and spring, hopefully that's a good place to start? TIA, Jeff |
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It's a singlestack converted to hi-cap by Century Arms. I thought the hollowpoint ammo might be the problem so this last hundred rounds was FMJ, and that's what gave me 1 FTE per mag. Just so I know, what shape should the ejector be on my rifle? It's not perfectly square in my opinion, and there is a tiny bevel on the upper inside corner. |
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Thanks for the ejector pic, mine is not exactly like that one but looks like the tip is similar... I got the new extractor and spring in the mail tonight, when I got home, the extractor looks the same, no real difference, and the new spring was only about a half coil longer. I installed the new parts and dry cycled a few rounds, everything seems okay, I'll just have to get to the range in the next day or two. How much slop in the bolt is acceptable? If I move the bolt around(up&down) when the ejector tip is even with the breechface I can get quite a gap between the top of the ejector and the bottom of the bolt, maybe enough to cause a jam? I know .....I'm grasping.... |
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I got to looking at the Kvar site since you gave me that pic, and I see the ejector rail for the 5.45 looks virtually like mine.. hock.gif... could I have the wrong rail on mine? Can I change it myself? www.k-var.com/product.asp?0=216&1=223&3=179 |
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while it is possible that the romanians welded in the incorrect rail/ejector...it's pretty unlikely. the next step would be to drag your wasr out to wherever you can do a direct physical comparison to an akm ejector and an ak74 ejector. the ak74 ejector sticks out farther away from the inside wall of the receiver. you may want to drop an email to todd grove at orf. when he finds the times, he can furnish you with the actual dimensions of the two ejectors. but!!! since you are getting a good percentage of successfull ejections...i would not blame the ejector tab just yet. |
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From the limited info you gave...... My stab in the dark....... Do you have any of the cases that stoved piped on hand...????? If so take a look and see if you can find the ejector mark on the case head.It's acting like it's skipping over the ejector. It can happen with out of tolerance parts or reciver. Ive had this happen to me with a OOW reciver. It's in the Inrange shop as we speak for this very same problem. When fired it would travel back and only skim the ejector and not knock the case out. Then on forward travel of the bolt carrier it would strip a new round from the mag and wham!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A Jam. New round and old round trying to get to the same place ..The chamber.... My spent case that caused the jams would have barely a knick on the case rim where the ejector hit it. Some would have only a drag mark. If it is stripping a new round it came back far anough for the case to hit the ejector and be tossed. I haven't heard of this with a real commie reciver. But is common for a OOW one. Mine would eject about 60% of the time. The little bit of play with the carrier was anough to let the bolt get by the ejector and graze the spent round. I really believe it's in that aera . If it is trying to chamber a fresh round when this happens it came back far anough to hit the ejector tab and get rid of the spent case.Check your jammed cases for the ejector mark and see how much ejector is hitting the case. You can tell very easy buy just looking at a spent case. You can't really tell so much buy cycling it buy hand. When that rifle goes off the force and movement of the reciver is tremendous. The carrier will not be going back nice and straight like when you pull it buy hand. Im no expert buy suffer from this same problem on a 74 rifle. I might have a short ejector. Best of luck to ya, WarDawg |
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This morning I got to thinking, is the extractor pin a slip fit or friction fit against the extractor? I've had to tap the pin back in, maybe I burred the old extractor? I don't know....I'm grasping again.... So many 'what ifs' going thru my head, I'm just going to go to the range tonight after work. I have 100rds of Wolf FMJ left, and the range has some other Russian brand(soft points) I'll try a hundred of those also. I'll save the brass and look'em all over, your right WarDawg, there's alot that can be learned by looking at your empties... |
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Light press fit.....uhoh! The new one was even harder to get the pin thru... When I first took the extractor apart the pin pushed out easy as pie, but it didn't go back together nowhere as easy so I had to tap it back in. Maybe I've burred the pin? Maybe I should polish the pin with some 1500grt paper? Is it normal to be able to press the extractor w/spring into its channel and it click in place? Maybe I have a burr in the channel that there shouldn't be? To be on the safe side I'll tear it down before I go to the range tonight and make sure I didn't cause any burrs. |
| Jeff,with the extractor in place can you push it in with finger pressure and it return?I believe you have an ejector problem,with the top cover off,does the ejector take up most of the space in the ejector recess in the bolt or is there alot of play in this area?Of course this does'nt explain why the percentage of stoppages increased after you cleaned the rifle. |
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JOHNO, yes the extractor will return, but if you press it in and towards the firing pin at the same time it will catch a lip of some sort and stay there. When the pin is inserted this doesn't apply....maybe it's just catching on the openning where the pin protrudes hinking.gif It's hard to make my words make sense heis shaped/profiled like KVARs illustration of the AK74 ejector. If that is the problem it wouldn't surprise me, I had a similar problem with a Springfield 1911, the ejector was too short and too narrow and it wouldn't grab the case properly when you tried to hand eject a round. I took a good aftermarket ejector and shaped it to a true G.I. shape and fixed my problem. I even had a Mauser that wouldn't eject properly either, the tip had rounded off, I filed it back to a perfect square and it ejects religiously again. I'll let you all know how it goes at the range tonight, wish me luck... |
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Okay, I drove home after work, got my gear and ran to the range, and ........ they don't allow rifleshave |
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I forgot to add in my last post, The ejector tip..... when you press the bolt as far down as it will go(against the ejector rail) there was a considerable gap, I don't know how I missed that.... So I put the receiver on a block of wood(upside down) and gave a couple taps to the underside of the ejector and checked it each time till I got the ejector to sit as high as it could without touching the bolt. Matter of fact, the underside of the tip had rub marks where it had made contact with the bolt. Still, I know the bolt has alot of up and down play but now the ejector is 'true'. I do not know if I bent it down, I've taken the trigger group out 4 or 5 times now, whittling down the sear to get rid of trigger slap, I may have pried against it taking the shepards hook out? And lastly, I took a file and lightly 'squared the tip' If I have anymore problems I'll give Troy a call. |
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I MANAGE A GUN SHOP HERE IN CENTRAL FL. AND MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE WASR-10 CONVERSIONS HAS LED ME TO BELIEVE THAT THE GUNS WERE PUT TOGETHER QUICKLY. I HAVE FOUND THAT THE SHEPARDS CROOK ARE NOT INSTALLED PROPERLY, CAUSING A DANGEROUS PROBLEM WITH THE TRIGGER PIN. ALSO AFTER THE MACHINING IS COMPLETED FOR THE HIGH CAP MAGS, THE GUNS ARE NOT PROPERLY CLEANED OF THE METAL CHIPS AND METAL DUST. I PURCHASED ONE FOR MYSELF AND STRIPPED THE GUN AND CLEANED WITH PARTS CLEANER AND AIR PRESSURE. I FOUND METAL SHAVINGS IN THE RECIEVER, BOLT LUGS AND THE GAS BLOCK ATTACHED TO THE BBL. I DID REMOVE THE EXTRACTOR AND FIRING PIN TO COMPLETLY CLEAN THE BOLT. WHAT PUZZLED ME WAS THE CRAP I FOUND IN THE GAS SYSTEM, AND I BELIEVRD THIS WOULD HAVE CAUSED A SHORT STROKE PROBLEM. I ALSO HAD PROBLEMS WITH TRIGGER SLAP AND HAD TO REPAIR AND FIT THE MAG RELEASE SO YOU CAN USE ANY AK MAGAZINE. I DID WHAT WAS NEEDED AND TODAY HAVE A FLAWLESS AK AND ONE ACCURATE FOR MY NEEDS. I THINK THEY ARE GOOD GUNS, AND OVERALL MORE ACCURATE THAN THE SAR-1, BUT QUALITY CONTROL STINKS. I STOPPED SENDING GUNS BACK TO MY DISTRIBUTOR OR TO CENTURY ARMS, WE JUST REPAIR THEM OURSELVES. |
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