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Posted: 10/28/2003 5:58:11 PM EDT
Hello,
I am in the middle of a 223 Krinkov kit build and I am a little worried about it lacking terminal effectiveness once it's done. I have been told that the Bulgarian 223 barrel does not over-stabilize but the velocity will be so low I might as well be shooting 22 Mag.


I'm a little more than dissapointed if this is the case.

Does anybody here have any clues about 223 Krink performance?

Anyone shot any varmints with a 223 this short?


Thanks
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 7:05:45 PM EDT
I had one like you are building a while ago, 223 norinco/bulg SBR. I had trouble hitting the 18 inch gong at 100 cause it was not easy to get used to. Those iron sites are just awful. I would put a side mount scope on it, a red dot maybe. I figure its performance shines (in its real world version) pumping rounds half a mag at a blast at something maybe 50 yards max. Barrel is 7.5 inches. You could invent a load for big velocity out of a little barrel, put a 4 piece flash suppressor on it, too. Much better than the cone version.
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 7:23:29 PM EDT
From a link on that other side of the board, not your bbl length but a darned close start.

www.ammo-oracle.com/#fragrange
Q. At what range will M193 fragment? How about M855?

Assuming true M193 or M855 ammo, velocity is the key. Velocity is dependent on barrel length and environmental conditions.

As barrel length increases, the bullet is propelled faster by the expanding gasses in the barrel, imparting more velocity on the bullet, resulting in a longer range before a fired bullet drops below 2700 fps. A shorter barrel imparts less velocity, and therefore the bullet has less range
Distance to 2700 fps
20" Barrel
16" Barrel
14.5" Barrel
11.5" Barrel

M193
190-200m
140-150m
95-100m
40-45m

M855
140-150m
90-95m
45-50m
12-15m



So you probably want 55gr ammo for the Krink.
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 8:32:05 PM EDT
As pointed out in the Ammo Oracle terminal effectivness for .223 is dependant primarily on muzzle velocity. If your barrel is below 10.5" forget about fragmentation from M193 from anything longer then the length of a room.

If you're twist is the 1:7 range you can consider the Heavy Match bullets (like the 75gr Hornady OTM, 77gr SMK, or 77gr Nosler OTM) which will improve terminal performance and be effective down to an 8" barrel or so (at room distances).
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 12:08:15 PM EDT
Hmmm,

Thanks for the data guys. I am thinking that upping the velocity a bit with some 45gr hollowpoint varmint loads might do the trick at under 150 yards. Anybody shoot the wichester 45gr varmint load yet?
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 6:10:53 PM EDT
Some ammo vendors also post ballistic data on their sites in the form of muzzle velocity and velocity/bullet drop at varied yardages. Might be another good way to interpret the likely path of the SBR launched bullet.
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 8:12:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sopmodm4:
Hmmm,

Thanks for the data guys. I am thinking that upping the velocity a bit with some 45gr hollowpoint varmint loads might do the trick at under 150 yards. Anybody shoot the wichester 45gr varmint load yet?


Bad, BAD idea. The light varmint loads are designed to fragment quickly. That is VERY bad when using the firearm to defend life & limb. They won't have the penetration required to reliably get to the vital organs and blood vessels.

You are looking for a minium of 12" of penetration to make sure you can get to the vitals from any angle - or in the event the round has to go through the arm before getting to the chest of the goblin (as in he is pointing a gun at you).

When the barrel is short you want heavy rounds not light ones.

Leave the 45gr loads for woodchucks.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 3:28:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2003 3:58:46 AM EDT by sopmodm4]
I think I may have to just scrap the 223 idea. The mags are expensive,the power is low and I can't suppress it.

Anyone got a 7.62 AKM barrel,trunnion and bolt they want to trade for my krinkov barrel and trunnion?

I think I might even go with a milled receiver

Link Posted: 10/31/2003 11:15:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By sopmodm4:
Hmmm,

Thanks for the data guys. I am thinking that upping the velocity a bit with some 45gr hollowpoint varmint loads might do the trick at under 150 yards. Anybody shoot the wichester 45gr varmint load yet?


Bad, BAD idea. The light varmint loads are designed to fragment quickly. That is VERY bad when using the firearm to defend life & limb. They won't have the penetration required to reliably get to the vital organs and blood vessels.

You are looking for a minium of 12" of penetration to make sure you can get to the vitals from any angle - or in the event the round has to go through the arm before getting to the chest of the goblin (as in he is pointing a gun at you).

When the barrel is short you want heavy rounds not light ones.

Leave the 45gr loads for woodchucks.



Actually, in this case it might be a good idea. They would penetrate deeper and fragment much less violently from such a micro-barrel due to much reduced velocity.
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 5:39:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
They would penetrate deeper and fragment much less violently from such a micro-barrel due to much reduced velocity.



They might fragment less but they don't penetrate any deeper. The rounds are too light.

I looked up the test results of some lightweight 'varmint type' ammo. And the penetration results were fairly consistant no matter the barrel length (from 8.5" to 20"), variation of less than an inch, results did show less fragmentation with the shorter barrel.

Lighweight projectiles just don't have the momentum needed (note this is the same problem as the FN 5.7x28 and the HK 4.7 PDW - neither of which fragment nor penetrate deep enough as they are too light).
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