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Posted: 5/7/2003 5:32:44 AM EDT
[#1]
Hey, RotDorn - where in TN are you located? I'm near Knoxville.
Well, my rifle was supposed to be done and shipped last week (April 30th). Still waiting. Was told it will be shipped on Monday or Tuesday of this week. Today is Wednesday and no word yet. I won't air my dirty laundry here, though some of you know of my severe financial situation. Was supposed to get the rifle 2 months ago to pay off some overdue bills. Now those bills are VERY overdue and my situation is getting desperate. Hope the rifle has shipped. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 6:36:06 AM EDT
[#2]
[b]Was told it will be shipped on Monday or Tuesday of this week. Today is Wednesday and no word yet.[/b]
hmmmm? keep us posted. i feel for ya! |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 6:38:59 AM EDT
[#3]
Agree, we only need one thread. Can someone post the KAG link and contact info here and whatever other relevant links might be useful.
I sent my request to the KAG two weeks ago and received a call several days later from Jerry Howland confirming he had received my request and documentation he said thing were moving along and I'd be notified when something happened. If you have parts or money with SAI I suggest you send copies of your receipts and e-mails to the KAG to cover your A** and insure your stuff is included in what ever action may be pending. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 7:01:43 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks, Campy - you more than anyone understands my current situation - I appreciate the support. BTW, I don't think I'll be able to make Bulletfest due to this. I'm very sorry - I really wanted to go this year.
I'll keep my fingers crossed that this rifle will be arriving this week. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 7:07:17 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Can someone post the KAG link and contact info here and whatever other relevant links might be useful. State of Kansas - Attorney General's Office Consumer Protection / Antitrust Division 120 SW 10th Ave. 2nd Floor Topeka, KS 66612-1597 attn: Special Agent Jerry Howland email: [email protected] Phone: (785)296-3751 Fax: (785)291-3699 online KAG complaint form: http://www.accesskansas.org/ksag/contents/consumer/complaint.htm Originally Posted By Solstice_Sweetie - FACT: Gary is not holding anyone's stuff hostage. If you want your precious guns back email me at [email protected] and I'll send the things right back to you. Good riddance. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 7:08:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Well, i took that "April's" offer for the refund minus shipping. As i expected, the reply letter stated, that "if the new completion date is at the end of june, that does not mean rifles were not touched." So i will not get all my money back. They can guarantee to ship everything back by the end of the month. I wonder why. So i guess i'll start preparing my paperwork for KAG and others, and if i wont get anything then, i am filing too. I wonder what kind of reply other people got, after they took this refund offer?
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Posted: 5/7/2003 7:40:27 AM EDT
[#7]
What was the refund offer? I got the blanket e-mail from April, but never bothered to reply. Thanks for any info.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 7:47:36 AM EDT
[#8]
i asked for an itemized list of the performed work and a price. dont know what will be a reply. but i have an idea. well...we all probably have the same feeling about this offer, but i will only post facts. ill let you all know. so far noone received anything as promised again by April, except one person, and the only thing was done were engravings and stamps on a rifle.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:48:43 AM EDT
[#9]
If anyone needs any specific information that was included in some of the "SAI-thrashed" threads, let us know and we will see if we can get it for you.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 1:32:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: whatever other relevant links might be useful. [url]www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp[/url] is the link to the FBI's internet fraud complaint. If you were defrauded through the internet via Gary's website/email, or through one of the websites/forums that helped perpetrate that fraud, then the FBI link is the place to fill out a complaint. If you believe a website was complicit in the fraud make sure you mention that too. The whole thing is relatively simple to fill out too. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 1:34:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Comrade, I too took April up on her offer. Here is the email that I received from SAI.
No problem. I'll get your things boxed up. But I'm telling everyone that I'm only guaranteeing that they ship by the end of the month. Mainly due to the fact that I'll be boxing these up at night after my son is in bed. I'll email you the tracking info as soon as it's ready to ship. Thanks, April Edog |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 1:44:33 PM EDT
[#12]
It will be interesting to see what happens, I suspect April May be Gary. In anycase those of you making the road trip to SAI please take some good photos/video of Gary if you can. Contrary to what "April" reported I still think the Bridal shop comes from Gary's "wife's" side of the family. And given the legalities of the marital situation, I would not put it past him to bail. So take good photos. In addition, if some one could give GPS cordinates for the homestead, that might prove usefull too.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 2:36:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Was the (April) offer for non KAG folks? I never got that email .WD
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Posted: 5/7/2003 3:25:44 PM EDT
[#14]
I got the April e-mail and I have filed. I even told them to keep the money I sent them because I knew it would be a challenge to get any cash back after a year and a half and asked her to just ship the stuff back. It will immediately be for sale when I get it back and I will wash my hands of the whole situation. Lessons learned should not be repeated.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 3:41:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Was the (April) offer for non KAG folks? I never got that email .WD From April's post: - FACT: Gary is not holding anyone's stuff hostage. If you want your precious guns back email me at [email protected] and I'll send the things right back to you. Good riddance. If anybody receives anything back, please let us know here. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 3:46:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Was the (April) offer for non KAG folks? I never got that email .WD I haven't filed with the KAG, and I never heard of the offer either. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 4:28:29 PM EDT
[#17]
I posted on SAI's private customer forum asking about the status of my rifle, with many others doing the same. After we all waited days, April replied to each post separately giving shipping dates for each project. Mine was the only one that said, "Gary will contact you personally about your rifle." I wonder what that is all about? It has been a few days and I've heard nothing...
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Posted: 5/7/2003 5:01:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Comrade, I too took April up on her offer. Here is the email that I received from SAI. No problem. I'll get your things boxed up. But I'm telling everyone that I'm only guaranteeing that they ship by the end of the month. Mainly due to the fact that I'll be boxing these up at night after my son is in bed. I'll email you the tracking info as soon as it's ready to ship. Thanks, April Edog Received one verbatim to this one. End of the month......... |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 5:08:56 PM EDT
[#19]
I will drop over dead [xx(] if any of you get anything from April. This type of stall is a common tactic for this smith. Duck and cover boys and prepare for the inevitable sad tale of woe. [>Q]
Regards, Gary |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 6:26:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Didn't AK-47 Nutz come online and agree to finance the "Return" shipping costs? I seem to remember the thread......
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=55588&w=searchPop[/url] or [url]www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115741&highlight=informer[/url] So it appears SAI is finally returning parts...great news for all of you. What about all the deposits? Solstice_Sweetie stated that would have to be worked out separately.....payments I believe she said.... RotDorn, Of course. Beyond all the conspiracy theories out there, my husband is not a conman. If you want your things returned "as is" you'll also get any money owed. Although, it's only fair that any work performed and return shipping costs will be deducted out of the refund. Also, depending on how many there are payment arrangements might have to be made. April Good to see things are finally working out... KF |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 7:28:26 PM EDT
[#21]
well...my second email from "April" stated that work was already started on my stuff..hehe, giving a fact that i was told my rifles are complete a few times, no wonders...so that is a warning that i will not get a full refund if any. At this point i just want my parts back, preferrably not worked on by that team. The date to send my parts back was set by the end of the month, and i know few others with the same "return date". If ill have any news i'll post them
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Posted: 5/7/2003 8:03:57 PM EDT
[#22]
"FACT: Gary is not holding anyone's stuff hostage. If you want your precious guns back email me at [email protected] and I'll send the things right back to you. Good riddance."
The thing that I don't get is why does "I'll send then right back to you. Good riddance." Mean the end of the month? Edog |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:14:12 PM EDT
[#23]
We at russia have a good saying that roughly translates to " Happy people dont feel like time flies" :)
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Posted: 5/8/2003 2:17:18 AM EDT
[#24]
I received an email saying my rifle was finished but during test-firing was having a jamming problem. I was told to have patience, but not given any ETA on when the rifle would be pronounced fit to be shipped. Given my current situation and emotional state, I don't really know WHAT to do right now.
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Posted: 5/8/2003 3:04:05 AM EDT
[#25]
Greywolf, I was given that same story over a year ago ('finished, but it's jamming..I apologize, but I can't send it out in this shape'). It just doesn't add up...if you supposedly built over 100 rifles, then why are so many jamming? Even *I* built a rifle that worked fine on first attempt. Truth: it's not jamming, it's just not finished.
File with KAG. If Gary can't meet a gentlemen's agreement with KAG, then he misses an OFFICIAL date with KAG two months ago, then why would any of you expect his wife to suddenly give you a truthful date? take care, Tec |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 3:41:39 AM EDT
[#26]
("jamming claims" + "master gunsmith claims")/AK = X
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Posted: 5/8/2003 4:59:23 AM EDT
[#27]
The clock is running out on Gucchi Goo. Men dressed in black and all that kind of stuff...
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Posted: 5/8/2003 1:05:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Gary is threatening the Falfiles with "legal action", classic....
[url]http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74262[/url] Wonder if one of these cracker jack box threat letters showed up at AR15's door? It is (was) the place leading the call for his head. Surely the powers here would circular file it like a worthless coupon. EDIT, forgot to heat the link....... |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 1:46:13 PM EDT
[#29]
A sad but predictible action by the Kansas Boy Wonder....LOL
Regards, Gary |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 1:59:01 PM EDT
[#30]
well I predicted that one a while back
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=55538&page=2[/url] [I] Quoted: yep campy he actually said that, I kept the PM, someday I might do a video documentry called something like " Dumb.Nutz idiotic posts mixed with legal opinions by Waldo" ? I don't know if the video has ever been done, but do a search on Sovereign Citizens, Common law copyrights, also check out the FREEMAN. With a little searching you will see where they get their legal theories. I found it interesting when I saw similarities between SAI and AK-47.net copyrighting their emails and private messages and pretty much all their communication. They seemed to do it together around the same time too (I wonder if they were working together, hmmm?) I believe that SAI/Gucciano and AK-47.net are under the impression (or would like other people to believe) that if they copyright their "frauds" and incriminating statements, that those statements can't be used against them in a court of law because of possible copyright violation. I believe they also threatened some other websites with similar “copyright” actions. The worst case I ever heard of this is a guy who copyrighted his own name in an effort to fight off the Federal Court. He claimed the court could not use his name in any documents because he had copyright on his own name; hence they had no legal power over him. Of course you can guess what the court did. He actually tried to fight back by charging the court $100,000 every time they broke the "copyright" on his name. Apparently SAI and AK-47.net had the same "copyright" legal advisor. [/i] |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 2:02:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Jen's post of GG threat's of legal action written by himself to look like a legal document. Anyone know what a "Cease and Desist Demain" is? Doesn't show up in my legal phrase dictionary. Wonder if he meant a "cease and desist order" which has to be issued by a court to be legal?
Edited to add federal copywrite code relating to protection for fair use (i.e. criticism is protected). Since he attempts to copyright all his personal correspondence to prevent its use. A study of the entire act which is often quoted by GG will show that he quotes only those parts which he feels will protect him from criticism. TITLE 17 > CHAPTER 1 > Sec. 107. Sec. 107. - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include - (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors. |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 2:34:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Thanks for the link!
I still claim that bitching and such gets in the way of the facts, and rants need to be avoided so all of us can actually keep track of the facts (a distinction Valmet refused to grasp). But GG does make it hard sometimes... Shall we call him The Gunsmith Formerly Known As Gucciano? |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 2:39:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Ya know, I got no skin in this game at all. Don't even own a commbloc weapon. I don't know the players involved.
But anyone that reads this, falfiles, subguns.com, should be clear about what is happening.. This guy is clearly either so confused and overextended that doing business with him is a mistake, or he is an out and out thief. In either case, allowing him more time is not to your benefit. Get your weapons/parts back ASAP and let him figure it out without you - if you can. Good luck to you guys hung out to dry. This is painful to watch and must be worse to be a part of. |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 4:08:29 PM EDT
[#34]
hmm.. So SAI sends out threatening letter(s) somewhere between April 27th and today, and during that same period most of the posts about SAI disappear from this site after his wife hops on and picks fights with most of the people who have rifles at SAI?
I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but did AR15.com have any communication with SAI over the period above that would have anything to do with all those posts suddenly disappearing? take care, Tec |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 4:28:18 PM EDT
[#35]
T9,
I have broached that very subject, and I have been told no. There has been no communication between ARFCOM and Gary(or his lawyer). The posts were not deleted, just moved to the trash bin, because they were just the same old "your stupid, no your stupid" type arguments. If any info that was contained in there is needed I will get it an VCopy it here. If anybody knows me, they know one thing...I will not coverup something that is wrong! Rot |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 4:44:44 PM EDT
[#36]
What made laugh was when sweetie said that gucciano was showing his son how to be a man or something like that. Doesn't he only have one kid. And wasn't that kid a newborn and sick about a year ago? How do you teach a 1 year old how to be a 'man'?
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Posted: 5/8/2003 5:05:25 PM EDT
[#37]
EEJ,
The truth is a devilish little detail often overlooked by our very own master smith. Don't you just hate it when truth ruins a good story? Kinda like I'm finishing your rifle now or be patient all good things take time or my all time favorite I'll be shipping it tomorrow. Regards, Gary |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 5:36:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Let me get this strait. he finished your AK and it jammed, That is quite a feat to get an AK the most reliable weapon in the history of firearms to jam. This does not make me feel good.
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Posted: 5/8/2003 6:20:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Thanks Rot..from what I gather you're a guy to trust, so apparently my suspicion was wrong. I apologize to Goaty for suggesting he caved..
take care, Tec |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 9:01:17 PM EDT
[#40]
postban and tktm-
just an FYI you might want to ask one of the admins to pull my old post in where you quoted my listing of the .Nutz Corporate Office, I think that information is very very important. And apparently it hit pretty deep, as it has now been changed to a P.O. Box down in San Antonio, Tx. Here ya go I found it The Guns Network LLC c/o Chris Stowell 1509 S. Galena Way #1012 Denver, CO 80231 and here is what they are using now The Guns Network LLC P.O. Box 760067 San Antonio, Texas 78245-0067 I definately think they are trying to hide, last time I checked its pretty hard for a process server to get a signature when they serve a P.O. Box |
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Posted: 5/9/2003 3:38:31 AM EDT
[#41]
jjb,
On the PO box and being served...they just hang around, or send a letter sig required, when the party goes to the desk to sign for it, they say hey, are you Joe Jones, when they say yes, they slap 'em and say....consider yourself served. The best one was when "an individual" from the gun boards was served at The Shot Show! Pics were worth a thousand words! |
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Posted: 5/9/2003 1:56:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Well, it appears that I have been banned at SAI's customer forum, as I cannot log in. Heck, I only had one thread there, and it was a single sentence asking about the status of my rifle.
Must have just found out that I filed with the KAG... |
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Posted: 5/9/2003 2:20:30 PM EDT
[#43]
Hey M4, welcome to the club! I am in the same situation as you.
Perhaps we could start our own "people who are customers of SAI but aren't allowed on the customers forum," forum. |
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Posted: 5/9/2003 2:32:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By Vladimir Berkov: Hey M4, welcome to the club! I am in the same situation as you. Perhaps we could start our own "people who are customers of SAI but aren't allowed on the customers forum," forum. [;)] Hey, it is called a [b]customers[/b] forum, and we ARE customers. Maybe it should be renamed "customers who don't file with the KAG and wait over a year and a half for a rifle promised in three weeks forum". |
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Posted: 5/9/2003 3:45:43 PM EDT
[#45]
M4Madness'
Same thing happened to me, no one would reply to my posts like they said they would, so I filed with the KAG and about 4 days later was banned. I think that I have the distinction of being the first one banned on that board. edog |
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Posted: 5/9/2003 4:40:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: M4Madness' Same thing happened to me, no one would reply to my posts like they said they would, so I filed with the KAG and about 4 days later was banned. I think that I have the distinction of being the first one banned on that board. edog Same situation with me. I hadn't filed with the KAG yet when I posted on the SAI forum. After waiting for a reply and seeing the same old things going on there as well, I sent in my paperwork. |
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Posted: 5/9/2003 5:39:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: jjb, On the PO box and being served...they just hang around, or send a letter sig required, when the party goes to the desk to sign for it, they say hey, are you Joe Jones, when they say yes, they slap 'em and say....consider yourself served. The best one was when "an individual" from the gun boards was served at The Shot Show! Pics were worth a thousand words! hehe this wasnt an individual in AZ by chance,I think I still have a couple of pics |
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Posted: 5/9/2003 5:55:57 PM EDT
[#48]
[;)]hehehehehehe[;)]
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Posted: 5/9/2003 9:55:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Quoted: jjb, On the PO box and being served...they just hang around, or send a letter sig required, when the party goes to the desk to sign for it, they say hey, are you Joe Jones, when they say yes, they slap 'em and say....consider yourself served. The best one was when "an individual" from the gun boards was served at The Shot Show! Pics were worth a thousand words! hehe this wasnt an individual in AZ by chance,I think I still have a couple of pics who? someone email me with these pics |
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Posted: 5/10/2003 11:26:26 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: jjb, On the PO box and being served...they just hang around, or send a letter sig required, when the party goes to the desk to sign for it, they say hey, are you Joe Jones, when they say yes, they slap 'em and say....consider yourself served. The best one was when "an individual" from the gun boards was served at The Shot Show! Pics were worth a thousand words! hehe this wasnt an individual in AZ by chance,I think I still have a couple of pics who? someone email me with these pics I believe that the individual's name begins with the letter "T". [;)] |
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